Barkov vs Matthews

[ImpartialNHLfan]

@ShizzWSOP: Which current NHL-er's skills do you admire the most?

BARKOV: Right now, probably Auston Matthews. I don't think I've played against any better player than him. He is so good. It was tough to stay with him [on Wednesday]. It's tough to believe how good he's going to be later. He impressed me a lot yesterday. I knew before he was that good, but I didn't know he was THAT good. It's nice to play against good players and learn from them.

 

[X66]

Put Matthews in Barkovs position in Florida and the type of minutes he plays, and Barkov in Matthews position and i would bet my money on Barkov having a higher point per 60 than Matthews would have in Florida if he got the exact same minutes that Barkov has had. Those extra minutes Barkov gets hurt his p/60 badly because they are on for defensive draws, helping the 4th line etc because they have no one else to do it close to as good as he does.

Sure his points per 60 will drop, but you let Matthews play 22 minutes a game with Dadonov and Huberdeau and he's hitting 90 points, 50 goals.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Defense-Barkov
Goals-Matthews

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

OZS:

Matthews (62GP) - 306 (32.04%)
Barkov - 358 (26.02%)
Matthews (79GP) - 390

DZS:

Matthews - 314 (32.88%)
Barkov - 552 (40.12%)
Matthews (79GP) - 400

NZS

Matthews - 335 (35.08%)
Barkov - 466 (33.87)
Matthews (79GP) - 427

Even though Matthews had more offensive starts, Barkov clearly had (assuming Matthews kept his averages) 159 more shifts than him. I don't care how much of it was started in the defensive end, that's a lot more minutes to create a lot more chances, and a lot more points. They're offensive game is about the same distance between their defensive game. That's really not a slight to Barkov too, Matthews is just one of the best offensive players in the entire league.

By your own stats above, Barkov had 52 minutes more starting in the OZ despite playing way more games than Matthews. This is where most players generate the bulk of their offense.

He started almost 250 more minutes in the defensive end than Matthews, which is where the largest portion of his extra ice time over Matthews came from.

Your own numbers show that the vast majority of Barkov's extra minutes are either in defensive zone or neutral zone situations. You honestly think that's conducive to producing more?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

This has been done countless times recently.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/auston-matthews-vs-sasha-barkov.2467803/

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/barkov-vs-matthews.2457903/

 

[WesMcCauley]

You're not wrong. But I do believe Auston's offense is that much better than Barkov's that it would still be much better though.

Again, it's no slight to Barkov as he's one of my favourite players and I'm constantly defending him. Auston is just a much better offensive player, and Barkov is much better defensively. I still say they're virtually tied, with a slight edge to Barkov (but voted Matthews )

Why is Matthews a much better offensive player? They had almost the exact same ppg last season

 

[The Grim Reaper]

 

[Breakers]

Sure his points per 60 will drop, but you let Matthews play 22 minutes a game with Dadonov and Huberdeau and he's hitting 90 points, 50 goals.

LOL
I can't tell if this is a serious comment.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Barkov has been able to establish himself in Florida - that speaks volumes

 

[BB88]

You're not wrong. But I do believe Auston's offense is that much better than Barkov's that it would still be much better though.

Again, it's no slight to Barkov as he's one of my favourite players and I'm constantly defending him. Auston is just a much better offensive player, and Barkov is much better defensively. I still say they're virtually tied, with a slight edge to Barkov (but voted Matthews )

Matthews is the better goal scorer but Barkov is the engine of Florida, his offense has been underrated for so long because he's carried the 2way/defensive title with him.
His hands are incredible, as are Matthews as well.

I don't really mind if someone wants to say Matthews is better offensively, but AINEC shouldn't enter these talks and I'll struggle if someone(not exactly you) wants to say playing heavy defensive minutes saves you more energy for offense vs sitting on the bench on those moments.
Playing like a #1D including backtoback games is idiotic and not an advantage offensively especially when we consider the guy we are talking of, defense 1st C.

Sure his points per 60 will drop, but you let Matthews play 22 minutes a game with Dadonov and Huberdeau and he's hitting 90 points, 50 goals.

If you play Matthews like a #1D he could very well be dead tired on the 2nd half and his production see a drop.
You know Barkov played a lot with Bjugstad at Rw? A guy lot of Florida fans have been ready to dump for free.

Barkov has proven himself to produce #1C numbers with garbage on his wing in a #1C role, Jokinen/Griffith/Jagr were his wingers for good amount of time 16-17 season and he still produced, none of them are in the league anymore, that's how good they are, Griffith got waived 3x, Jokinen bought out and Jagr left for Europe.

I love how you think averaging the most amount of icetime for forwards for majority of the season and keeping elite 2 way play is easy.

 

[I am not exposed]

@ShizzWSOP: Which current NHL-er's skills do you admire the most?

BARKOV: Right now, probably Auston Matthews. I don't think I've played against any better player than him. He is so good. It was tough to stay with him [on Wednesday]. It's tough to believe how good he's going to be later. He impressed me a lot yesterday. I knew before he was that good, but I didn't know he was THAT good. It's nice to play against good players and learn from them.

Well if we're using this as an argument, then Gretzky is official the worst player that has ever played in the NHL!

 

[WesMcCauley]

Sure his points per 60 will drop, but you let Matthews play 22 minutes a game with Dadonov and Huberdeau and he's hitting 90 points, 50 goals.

Ye poor Matthews, Kadri eats the hardest matchups in Toronto and Matthews has to play with Nylander.... He isnt exactly in a bad spot. Leafs fans cant say Nylander is an elite player in every other discussion except when we talk about the quality of Matthews` linemates.

 

[Atomos2]

Matthews. He's the better player.

 

[Breakers]

Ye poor Matthews, Kadri eats the hardest matchups in Toronto and Matthews has to play with Nylander.... He isnt exactly in a bad spot. Leafs fans cant say Nylander is an elite player in every other discussion except when we talk about the quality of Matthews` linemates.

I was just going to say that.
So we have gone from ------
1A) Maybe if Matthews actually had some talent around him
(to 5 minutes later)
1B) Nylander is without a doubt a first line player.

I dont even know anymore.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Ye poor Matthews, Kadri eats the hardest matchups in Toronto and Matthews has to play with Nylander.... He isnt exactly in a bad spot. Leafs fans cant say Nylander is an elite player in every other discussion except when we talk about the quality of Matthews` linemates.

Yeah, it seems a bit of a contradiction at times. One minute, Leaf fans are going on and on about Toronto's incredible depth. The next, apparently Matthews plays with lesser talent.

 

[filinski77]

Barkov.

2 very good Point Per Game Centres. Barkov is only 22, so who cares if it took him a few years to get rolling.

Matthews advantage in goals is not nearly enough to cover Barkovs massive defensive advantage considering that their points are so similar.

Of course, this could change any season that either player has a large step in their development/game.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Yeah, it seems a bit of a contradiction at times. One minute, Leaf fans are going on and on about Toronto's incredible depth. The next, apparently Matthews plays with lesser talent.

Agreed. I think it’s fair to say both players play with good players. I don’t see this as an advantage either way.
I think Barkov has had a bigger role in Florida which given their age difference is not surprising.
Matthews could well get there.

 

[Cleatus]

Barkov was better last season, but he's older, and I'm pretty sure it won't be long until Matthews is better.

Barkov is a hell of a player though. Hopefully for his sake, Florida gets its stuff together sooner than later.

 

[Deficient Mode]

The attempts to undermine Matthews' superior scoring rate in this thread are stupid. Only McDavid has scored better than Matthews at 5 on 5 the past two years - Matthews' 19 and 20 year old seasons. He scored at a higher rate than a dozens of other star players who didn't play on the penalty kill or play 23 minutes a night. There is no amount of "Kadri soaks up the tough matchups" or "Matthews gets 10% more offensive zone starts" that negates that. It's fine to vote for Barkov, but the gap in production is far too large to reduce it to any of the factors people are talking about in this thread.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Matthews is a better goal scorer and honestly that's about it Barkov is better at everything else.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Hmmmm I was told earlier today, that it was laughable to EVEN SUGGEST that Barkov was superior to Matthews.

 

[BB88]

The attempts to undermine Matthews' superior scoring rate in this thread are stupid. Only McDavid has scored better than Matthews at 5 on 5 the past two years - Matthews' 19 and 20 year old seasons. He scored at a higher rate than a dozens of other star players who didn't play on the penalty kill or play 23 minutes a night. There is no amount of "Kadri soaks up the tough matchups" or "Matthews gets 10% more offensive zone starts" that negates that. It's fine to vote for Barkov, but the gap in production is far too large to reduce it to any of the factors people are talking about in this thread.

At the end of day they both scored at a ppg rate last season.

 

[FlaPanthers11]

You can throw the linemate argument out the window.

 

[34]

Hmmmm I was told earlier today, that it was laughable to EVEN SUGGEST that Barkov was superior to Matthews.

That is right, HFboards Toronto haters decide that right.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Offensively they are close but defensively they are not.