Barkov vs Matthews

[Nadal On Clay]

Barkov for now.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Bark, not close

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Dude, you could literally have a poll with Kadri vs McDavid and you would still vote for the Leaf.

You're one of the last people who should be complaining about polls, you're not alone either.

I love when you post this against other posters, definition of irony. And Westcoast Orca right after you, you can't make this shit up lol.

 

[Plural]

If I were the leafs GM I would never trade Matthews for Barkov. So my answer is Matthews.

You'd be fired on the spot if you did.

Barkov was better last season and might still be better for a season or two. But everyone is expecting Matthews to take that another step. And he will. After he does, he'll be a notch above the likes of Barkov.

 

[tomi2]

Barkov is clearly better. AM may get there but that is not a guarantee.

 

[Skolman]

I love when you post this against other posters, definition of irony. And Westcoast Orca right after you, you can't make this **** up lol.

Was I speaking to you?

 

[HugginThePost]

Barkov is the obvious choice here. Could change in a year though but let’s see first.

This....

 

[Johno]

He got Selke votes in his rookie season. Not many maybe, but he did get some.

Two votes. That's nothing and I'm quite sure by some Leafs glassed writers. Which none of them did anymore this season since the votes were made public. If he truly was so good at it, he would get votes.
Going by that route, even Jori Lehterä has selke votes...

 

[Future GOAT]

I gave this to Barkov, offense is close but the separation in defense is significant enough to give Barkov the edge. I can see this choice possibly changing though over the next few years.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I feel like people are overstating how close Matthews and Barkov are offensively. Barkov is clearly better defensively right now. Matthews is also clearly better offensively, but that doesn't seem to be the prevailing opinion here.

We agree. Barkov is clearly better than Matthews defensively. Much better. The poll results are spot on.

As most have voted for Barkov here, I too will also take the proven 78 points center over the 69 points center at this time of the poll. As with most polls they are a snapshot in time. At this time it is Barkov right now.

 

[Bill Berg]

Two votes. That's nothing and I'm quite sure by some Leafs glassed writers. Which none of them did anymore this season since the votes were made public. If he truly was so good at it, he would get votes.
Going by that route, even Jori Lehterä has selke votes...

Considering there are over 400 forwards that play in any season, Matthews being ranked 38 according to Selke voting means he's good defensively. But then again I'm willing to say that the top 10% of forwards ranked by defensive ability are 'good'. I'm not in the he's great camp yet.

 

[kelsier]

Right now Barkov with ease due to his two-way game and Selke caliper defence. This could change moving forward though, Matthews is much younger. Not exactly a fair poll when comparing players who are at different phases of their development.

 

[TheDoldrums]

We agree. Barkov is clearly better than Matthews defensively. Much better. The poll results are spot on.

As most have voted for Barkov here, I too will also take the proven 78 points center over the 69 points center at this time of the poll. As with most polls they are a snapshot in time. At this time it is Barkov right now.

Here is a snapshot in time.

It shows the difference between a very good offensive player and an elite one.

 

[Nithoniniel]

This is Barkov to me. As I see centers in the league right now:

McDavid - Best player in the league.
Crosby/Malkin - Guys that clearly differentiate themselves from the #1Cs.
Barkov/Bergeron/Kopitar - Guys that have an edge over the #1Cs due to two-way play.
The #1C tier.

Matthews is in that fourth tier.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Here is a snapshot in time.


It shows the difference between a very good offensive player and an elite one.

Right now 78 points is better than 69 pts. And as you said Barkov is a much better defensive player than Matthews. I 100% agree with you there. The poll is correct. Barkov>Matthews.

The next snapshot is your guess as good as mine.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Right now 78 points is better than 69 pts. And as you said Barkov is a much better defensive player than Matthews. I 100% agree with you there. The poll is correct. Barkov>Matthews.

The next snapshot is your guess as good as mine.

Nah, my guess will be better than yours if you solely judge offensive ability by total points and ignore games played and other variables.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Nah, my guess will be better than yours if you solely judge offensive ability by total points and ignore games played and so many other factors.

Barkov has never played 82 games in a season. Your guess seems to somewhat tunnel visioned if you are putting all your eggs into to a pace discussion and not an actual points discussion. It doesn't change the fact one player is a 78 pt center at this time, the other 69 point center. While we both agree Barkov is much better defensively than Matthews in this snapshot in time.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Barkov has never played 82 games in a season. Your guess seems to somewhat tunnel visioned if you are putting all your eggs into to a pace discussion and not an actual points discussion. It doesn't change the fact one player is a 78 pt center at this time, the other 69 point center. While we both agree Barkov is much better defensively than Matthews in this snapshot in time.

I hope this irony is not lost on you.

Anyways I've made my point. I am reasonable and admit that Barkov is better defensively. If only you could do the same on offense. At 5v5 last season:

Players who scored goals at a better rate: None
Players who scored points at a better rate: McDavid, MacKinnon

When the only players ahead of you are the Lindsay winner and a Hart finalist, you're doing pretty well.

You can keep up the ruse that Barkov is better offensively if you want. That opinion will age very poorly over time.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I hope this irony is not lost on you.

Anyways I've made my point. I am reasonable and admit that Barkov is better defensively. If only you could do the same on offense. At 5v5 last season:

Players who scored goals at a better rate: None
Players who scored points at a better rate: McDavid, MacKinnon

When the only players ahead of you are the Lindsay winner and a Hart finalist, you're doing pretty well.

You can keep up the ruse that Barkov is better offensively if you want. That opinion will age very poorly over time.

We agreed that Barkov is a much better defensive player than Matthews is. You said Matthews is the much better offensive player than Barkov is. I noted Not in actual points. Barkov 78 in 79 games to Matthews 69 career tops if you want to add 2 points in the playoffs in 7 games last season, then 65 in 69 games last season. At this point as most people agree in this poll Barkov is better than Matthews. Its too bad you are upset with this. But this is the current snap shot.

The next snap shot may be different. This is obvious. But it isn't the snapshot as of right now.

 

[TheDoldrums]

We agreed that Barkov is a much better defensive player than Matthews is. You said Matthews is the much better offensive player than Barkov is. I noted Not in actual points. Barkov 78 in 79 games to Matthews 69 career tops if you want to add 2 points in the playoffs in 7 games last season, then 65 in 69 games last season. At this point as most people agree in this poll Barkov is better than Matthews. Its too bad you are upset with this. But this is the current snap shot.

The next snap shot may be different. This is obvious. But it isn't the snapshot as of right now.

I'm not upset. Simply amused at you calling me tunnel visioned while continuing to repeat their career highs in total points as your only argument. Apparently the irony was lost on you.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm not upset. Simply amused at you calling me tunnel visioned while continuing to repeat their career highs in total points as your only argument.

I cited actual points. While you were concerned with what if projections. I am perfectly comfortable in saying a 78 pt center who you agreed is a much better defensive player trumps a 69 pt career high center or 65 points in 69 games, 2 pts in the playoffs included than your what if made up projections.

One more time, this is the current snapshot. This is what the OP is asking.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I cited actual points. While you were concerned with what if projections. I am perfectly comfortable in saying a 78 pt center who you agreed is a much better defensive player trumps a 69 pt career high center or 65 points in 69 games, 2 pts in the playoffs included than your what if made up projections.

One more time, this is the current snapshot. This is what the OP is asking.

I posted production. Projections are estimates for the future. I'm not saying he'll be better offensively in the future, I'm saying he's clearly better offensively right now based on his performance last season.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I hope this irony is not lost on you.

Anyways I've made my point. I am reasonable and admit that Barkov is better defensively. If only you could do the same on offense. At 5v5 last season:

Players who scored goals at a better rate: None
Players who scored points at a better rate: McDavid, MacKinnon

When the only players ahead of you are the Lindsay winner and a Hart finalist, you're doing pretty well.

You can keep up the ruse that Barkov is better offensively if you want. That opinion will age very poorly over time.

Cherry picked stats aside, both players produced at approximately a point per game pace last year, although Barkov did it in a larger sample size. Matthews had less ice time but Barkov’s minutes included PK time. Matthews also played on one of the top offensive teams.
So I think it’s fair to say that offensively they were both pretty close. You can make a case for either player depending on which stats you want to focus on.
Now if we’re talking projection, I’d agree that Matthews projects as the better offensive player. But as of right now they’re both pretty equal taking everything into account.

 

[Sasso09]

Matthews. Kid is very underrated on these boards. While Barkov is HFBs new love child (the new Toews)

Both elite players though

 

[missionAvs]

Cherry picked stats aside, both players produced at approximately a point per game pace last year, although Barkov did it in a larger sample size. Matthews had less ice time but Barkov’s minutes included PK time. Matthews also played on one of the top offensive teams.
So I think it’s fair to say that offensively they were both pretty close. You can make a case for either player depending on which stats you want to focus on.
Now if we’re talking projection, I’d agree that Matthews projects as the better offensive player. But as of right now they’re both pretty equal taking everything into account.

Agreed with this. No matter how people may want to spin it, Barkov and Matthews are close enough offensively that it makes it a no contest with regards to who is a better overall player right now. That said, this could easily change as early as next season. Wouldn't be surprised to see both of these guys flip flop in "better player status" for a long time.