Barkov vs Matthews

[Nico the Draft Riser]

Only if you admit you hate the Leafs.

They're so close as players, I wouldn't even consider it skewing. Matthews could take a gigantic next step and as soon as game 1 he could be the better player.

idk who you are or why youre asking me if I hate the Leafs, but it would seem unlike you I have the ability to vote unbiased. If Matthews was the better player today he would get my vote, but he isnt. They score similar rates and one is far better in the two way department

 

[Morgs]

idk who you are or why youre asking me if I hate the Leafs, but it would seem unlike you I have the ability to vote unbiased. If Matthews was the better player today he would get my vote, but he isnt. They score similar rates and one is far better in the two way department

They don't score similar rates though?

5v5 P60:
Matthews - 2.98
Barkov - 2.18

PP P60:
Matthews - 5.89
Barkov - 3.64

Matthews is the better offensive player in virtually every aspect. Barkov is a much better defensive player, and is very good offensively (but it's also due to his excessive amount of TOI). They're basically tied.

 

[BB88]

They don't have abysmal depth at center though.

Matthews is a better player than Barkov, and there is no other way around it.

And not one single team in the NHL would take Barkov over Matthews. This is just an HFboards thing.

So you know nothing about the Panthers?
Mazkenzie was abysmal and their bottom6 weak as hell especially on the 1st half.

Matthews wasn't better last year, and again the question is which one do you take moving forward.

They don't score similar rates though?

5v5 P60:
Matthews - 2.98
Barkov - 2.18

PP P60:
Matthews - 5.89
Barkov - 3.64

Matthews is the better offensive player in virtually every aspect. Barkov is a much better defensive player, and is very good offensively (but it's also due to his excessive amount of TOI). They're basically tied.

Doesn't that hurt his p60 stats?
When you're asked to cover for your 4th line in the D-zone faceoff you're not expected to go score a goal.

 

[Peiskos]

Oh look yet another Leafs player on the verge of losing a poll when he should be far ahead. Barkov hasn't even hit 30 goals yet in his 5 NHL seasons. Matthews on the other hand with 40 and 34 goal seasons, the latter season missing 20 games.

 

[Patrik Barkov]

Oh look yet another Leafs player on the verge of losing a poll when he should be far ahead. Zzzz.

Imagine thinking this. Only in Leafs land I guess.

 

[Nico the Draft Riser]

They don't score similar rates though?

5v5 P60:
Matthews - 2.98
Barkov - 2.18

PP P60:
Matthews - 5.89
Barkov - 3.64

Matthews is the better offensive player in virtually every aspect. Barkov is a much better defensive player, and is very good offensively (but it's also due to his excessive amount of TOI). They're basically tied.

So let me get this straight

Matthews is better offensively but Barkov is better defensively and still great offensively... so somehow thats a tie?

considering Barkov plays far more per 60, those stats dont mean a thing

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Oh look yet another Leafs player on the verge of losing a poll when he should be far ahead. Barkov hasn't even hit 30 goals yet, Matthews on the other hand with 40 and 34 goal seasons, the latter season missing 20 games.

Stop complaining. The polls almost tied. Mainly because Leaf fans, even one who admitted Barkov is better, are voting on bloc for their guy. As usual.

 

[X66]

So you know nothing about the Panthers?
Mazkenzie was abysmal and their bottom6 weak as hell especially on the 1st half.

Matthews wasn't better last year, and again the question is which one do you take moving forward.
.

We're talking about the impact of a 4th line center here?

Barkov, Trocheck, McCann, Bjugstad are all capable of playing center on that team, and are a big reason they don't have abysmal center depth.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

They don't score similar rates though?

5v5 P60:
Matthews - 2.98
Barkov - 2.18

PP P60:
Matthews - 5.89
Barkov - 3.64

Matthews is the better offensive player in virtually every aspect. Barkov is a much better defensive player, and is very good offensively (but it's also due to his excessive amount of TOI). They're basically tied.

The problem with using their per 60 rates is it ignores the fact that most of Barkov's extra minutes are defensive minutes. It's not like Barkov's extra 4 minutes per game are all in the offensive zone, in situations where he can pad his stats.

Why do you think Malkin has better per 60 stats than Crosby? Because Crosby's extra minutes are spent taking defensive zone faceoffs.

 

[Morgs]

I'll add this:

 

[X66]

So let me get this straight

Matthews is better offensively but Barkov is better defensively and still great offensively... so somehow thats a tie?

considering Barkov plays far more per 60, those stats dont mean a thing

Matthews is significantly better offensively than Barkov, he just has way less opportunity to do it.

 

[Peiskos]

Imagine thinking this. Only in Leafs land I guess.

Matthews is the better player. What makes your opinion worth more than mine?

Barkov has played 331 NHL games, he has 100 goals and 149 assists for 249 total points.

Matthews has played 144 NHL games, he has 74 goals and 58 assists for 132 total points.

Matthews is clearly producing at much higher clip than Barkov is. But ya ya you and your Finnish bias, blah blah blah.

 

[Morgs]

So let me get this straight

Matthews is better offensively but Barkov is better defensively and still great offensively... so somehow thats a tie?

considering Barkov plays far more per 60, those stats dont mean a thing

Matthews is better offensively, and the gap is around as large as the difference between him and Barkov defensively. As I said "they're so close but a tiny edge to Barkov", but it's so hard to quantify defense as of today that I 99% of the time will lean to the better offensive player as long as they are not the worst defensively.

That's the point of per 60 stats. It's to put gross offensive numbers into context.

 

[bukwas]

Another prime example of a poll that should have a "too close" option.

 

[BB88]

We're talking about the impact of a 4th line center here?

Barkov, Trocheck, McCann, Bjugstad are all capable of playing center on that team, and are a big reason they don't have abysmal center depth.

Oh man, you have no clue about the Panthers do you.

I'll say it again, he had to play #1D minutes for good streches during the season to cover for their abysmal depth, to take extra D-zone faceoffs to cover for that depth.
But x66 Florida expert here is about to disagree.

Matthews is better offensively, and the gap is around as large as the difference between him and Barkov defensively. As I said "they're so close but a tiny edge to Barkov", but it's so hard to quantify defense as of today that I 99% of the time will lean to the better offensive player as long as they are not the worst defensively.

That's the point of per 60 stats. It's to put gross offensive numbers into context.

Put Matthews in Barkovs role and his p60 sees a drop.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Matthews is the better player. What makes your opinion worth more than mine?

Barkov has played 331 NHL games, he has 100 goals and 149 assists for 249 total points.

Matthews has played 144 NHL games, he has 74 goals and 58 assists for 132 total points.

Matthews is clearly producing at much higher clip than Barkov is. But ya ya you and your Finnish bias, blah blah blah.[/QUOTE

Delete

 

[Morgs]

Matthews is the better player. What makes your opinion worth more than mine?

Barkov has played 331 NHL games, he has 100 goals and 149 assists for 249 total points.

Matthews has played 144 NHL games, he has 74 goals and 58 assists for 132 total points.

Matthews is clearly producing at much higher clip than Barkov is. But ya ya you and your Finnish bias, blah blah blah.

Stop it.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Matthews is significantly better offensively than Barkov, he just has way less opportunity to do it.

Lol! Classic HF logic.
Both players are close offensively but Barkov is a defensive beast for a player his age.

 

[X66]

Lol! Classic HF logic.

Maybe you haven't watched hockey much, but in the last 10 years, the vast(very vast) majority of players that put up big numbers all played 19, 20, 21, 22 minutes a game.

You give someone like Matthews an extra minutes of PP time a game and that will make his numbers jump as well.

 

[Bounces R Way]

As players they're very close. Incredibly complete for their age. Able to elevate players around them. Barkov's contract and his defensive acumen are what makes him my choice.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Maybe you haven't watched hockey much, but in the last 10 years, the vast(very vast) majority of players that put up big numbers all played 19, 20, 21, 22 minutes a game.

You give someone like Matthews an extra minutes of PP time a game and that will make his numbers jump as well.

I’ve warched lots of hockey and I would bet I watch more games than you do, given your lack of knowledge about Florida.
I also trust Babcock to do what puts his team in the best position to win. And his view is that Matthews is not yet ready to play the same role that Barkov has in Florida. That could change in a year as most reasonable posters are saying.

 

[MoreMogilny]

Barkov is better right now. Matthews is more of a force offensively, but the gap isn’t nearly as big as the advantage Barkov has over him defensively.

That could change as early as this coming season as we will hopefully see a full year of healthy AM. He managed just over a PPG last season but was injured for a number of the games he did play. His goal apparently is to be the best two way C in the league, but we will see.

Either way, we are comparing two of the best young centres in the game. Barkov will probably always be a bit underrated by the media while Matthews may get the opposite.

 

[Morgs]

The problem with using their per 60 rates is it ignores the fact that most of Barkov's extra minutes are defensive minutes. It's not like Barkov's extra 4 minutes per game are all in the offensive zone, in situations where he can pad his stats.

Why do you think Malkin has better per 60 stats than Crosby? Because Crosby's extra minutes are spent taking defensive zone faceoffs.

OZS:

Matthews (62GP) - 306 (32.04%)
Barkov - 358 (26.02%)
Matthews (79GP) - 390

DZS:

Matthews - 314 (32.88%)
Barkov - 552 (40.12%)
Matthews (79GP) - 400

NZS

Matthews - 335 (35.08%)
Barkov - 466 (33.87)
Matthews (79GP) - 427

Even though Matthews had more offensive starts, Barkov clearly had (assuming Matthews kept his averages) 159 more shifts than him. I don't care how much of it was started in the defensive end, that's a lot more minutes to create a lot more chances, and a lot more points. They're offensive game is about the same distance between their defensive game. That's really not a slight to Barkov too, Matthews is just one of the best offensive players in the entire league.

 

[Morgs]

Put Matthews in Barkovs role and his p60 sees a drop.

You're not wrong. But I do believe Auston's offense is that much better than Barkov's that it would still be much better though.

Again, it's no slight to Barkov as he's one of my favourite players and I'm constantly defending him. Auston is just a much better offensive player, and Barkov is much better defensively. I still say they're virtually tied, with a slight edge to Barkov (but voted Matthews )

 

[WesMcCauley]

Matthews is better than him.

The production might be close, but that has a lot to do with Barkov playing 22 minutes a game, which is just a stupid coaching decision on Florida's part.

Just watching them play you can see Matthews is a better player than Barkov, and will be better than him when he's the same age.

Bump this thread in a year to see it.

Put Matthews in Barkovs position in Florida and the type of minutes he plays, and Barkov in Matthews position and i would bet my money on Barkov having a higher point per 60 in Toronto than Matthews would have in Florida if he got the exact same minutes that Barkov has had. Those extra minutes Barkov gets hurt his p/60 badly because they are on for defensive draws, helping the 4th line etc because they have no one else to do it close to as good as he does.