Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics)

[twostroke27]

My real question is is it possible to replace Duchene or Lando at their current cap hit value wise? And if so, what could we expect back for them? Duchene is a steal at 6 million in my opinion. Lando is great dollar for dollar too.

I'd be very very hesitant to move either of them, but looking at the cap, I think one of Varly, Duchene or Lando are gone.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Radulov - Grigorenko - Duchene
Landeskog - Rantanen - MacKinnon

?

You joke, but the only not possible thing about that line up is still having Duchene and MacKinnon both in that situation long term.

Switch Duchene with Boedker and add OEL to the back end.

Grigorenko - MacKinnon - Radulov
Landeskog - Rantanen - Boedker
Compher - Soderberg - Comeau

OEL - EJ
FB - Barrie
Bigras - ____

 

[Bubba Thudd]

By stud defenseman do you mean OEL. If so i'll add Rants to Varly

Seriously though OEL is so good. I said this before but Boedker is really going to miss him breaking out. Boedker has never cheated when breaking out. He comes back all the way and starts his breakout from down low on the goal line/bottom of the circle like he should. Then he picks up speed and OEL used to hit him coming out of the zone every time. He's going to be really frustrated when he puts that effort into coming back for a breakout, becoming an obvious option but instead having Barrie back off and wait for all his options to run out before flipping it through the middle.

I'm talking an impact defenseman, in the mold of OEL.

 

[twostroke27]

I'm talking an impact defenseman, in the mold of OEL.

I'm not sure phoenix would move OEL for anything less than Mack.

 

[the_fan]

You joke, but the only not possible thing about that line up is still having Duchene and MacKinnon both in that situation long term.

Switch Duchene with Boedker and add OEL to the back end.

Grigorenko - MacKinnon - Radulov
Landeskog - Rantanen - Boedker
Compher - Soderberg - Comeau

OEL - EJ
FB - Barrie
Bigras - ____

No way in hell you'll get OEL straight up for Duchene. You're talking Duchene+Rantanen+ a pick at least

 

[CobraAcesS]

I'm not sure phoenix would move OEL for anything less than Mack.

Grigorenko - Duchene - Radulov
Landeskog - Rantanen - Boedker
Compher - Soderberg - Comeau

OEL - EJ
Bigras - Barrie
Zadorov - FB

 

[Pokecheque]

I sure hope they scuttle the entire management/coaching team before they even think about seriously moving Landeskog and/or Duchene.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Don't know if it's been covered, since I haven't read the last 100 or so posts...

This team is built where the goalie must be the best player on the ice every game. Our defense is porous, so he absolutely has to be. And Varly hasn't been that guy consistently.

Now, we've seen that an above average goalie can win Cups behind a solid defense, where the netminder doesn't have to be the #1 star every night.

So, if our team makeup isn't working, what do we change? Do we try to get a better goalie, one who can be a superstar every night? Or do we "settle" for an above average goalie (Pickard?), and try to trade Varlamov for a stud defender, and build that direction?

Peter Budaj and David Aebischer were both flame outs when they started feeling the weight of the actually having to play a full season. We have no idea what Pickard offers in a full season. He's only played +30 games in his NHL career let alone 30 in a season. We have an above average back-up goalie in Pickard, we don't have a single idea what he is as a starter though.

Varlamov doesn't make anything more then Corey Crawford and the Hawks are doing just fine with him in net. You need a consistent goalie in the playoffs to win. Antti Niemi won one cup and hasn't gotten close since. For all of Corey Crawford's faults he's very solid in the playoffs.

You know what Mike Chambers or whoever is right, just waive Varly and lets move on.

 

[ABasin]

I think he is spot on. I think that all 3 of Duchene, Landeskog and Varlamov should be on the hot seat, and I'd also throw in EJ into that mix as well. The fact is these 4 guys have been around for awhile now and they still can't seem to come through in the clutch. And this isn't just a this year issue, this has been an ongoing issue for many years. Our star players just consistently fold in tight games. We are literally the anti-Blackhawks in this category. Their stars come up huge in 3rd periods.

I'm not sure if it's that they fold in tight games, or it's that they're all good players, but not great ones (though Varlamov at times has looked like the best goaltender out there). They do need to look at the top players and figure out why a group of such highly drafted and highly talented players cannot consistently carry a hockey team into the playoffs. To top it off, McKinnon isn't developing as fast or with as high a ceiling as he should be - or as I thought he would, anyway.

But trading 1st line/pairing players in their mid-20s on decent contracts? That's dicey business. I'd rather they figure out what could be changed in regards to coaching/system/supporting players, rather than the Avs make their version of a Sequin trade. Is the problem with the Avs top young players systemic? Is it developmental? Or is it the players? I'm not sure, but I'd sure exhaust those first two possibilities before defaulting to the third.

Duchene couldn't put a beach ball in the ocean in a tied game in the 3rd period.

He's always had an inaccurate shot. Too bad he hasn't fixed that. But, he is the most highly skilled Avs player, in terms of skating and stick handling.

Landeskog appears to be more concerned with his GQ looks, than scoring that gritty goal in a tied game late in the 3rd. I can't recall the last time Landeskog went to the net hard in the 3rd period won a battle and scored an ugly goal. He is a big guy this should happen at least a couple times a month.

Well, that GQ thing is silly, but I do feel that Landeskog is a bit too polite, like much of the team. This has been a problem for some time. It almost makes me want to see a player like Lucic come to Colorado. Almost.

EJ has just fallen off a cliff this year. Not sure what's going on with him.

I don't either. He has regressed from the last two seasons. Not sure why.

I'm almost getting to the point where missing the playoffs this year might be better than making them, because it would force Roy and Sakic to seriously evaluate the status of the team, and basically force them to move a couple of the guys listed above.

I'll never want the team to lose - and I've been through enough tanks to last a lifetime - but I do hope that those two guys realize they need to do something differently from how they've been doing things.

 

[shadow1]

Bigras is turning into a stud defenseman. Have to keep that in mind. He has been on the ice for for an insanely low number of goals against in his 21 games - 3 or 4? You figure by next season he's in a top-4 role.

 

[cgf]

EJ's been off since the injury. My guess would be that he rushed back too soon and isn't fully healthy. We saw how much that was effecting Landy before he had the ASB to get his **** together.

Grigorenko - Duchene - Radulov
Landeskog - Rantanen - Boedker
Compher - Soderberg - Comeau

OEL - EJ
FB - Barrie
Bigras - ___

Rather keep MacK. Peacock-Meloche is going to be a dominant pairing in time, and in a year or two Bigras-Barrie could be a top pairing in their own right.

 

[Freudian]

EJ injured his knee, not his brain. He's making some really poor decisions with the puck. He always has been gambling way too much in transition, as if he doesn't understand that his rifle passes aren't very effective. But lately it's been even worse.

Coaches need to sit him down and have him watch video of his bad decisions in transition. He's not the stretch pass king. Play within your limits.

 

[tucker3434]

We would get so smoked on a Landeskog/Duchene trade. We would trade them to some team like the Rangers, and watch them just stack points up over the next 5 years while we got Scott Gomez in return. Bad bad idea.

 

[Tweaky]

Stupid trade idea following along the trade the core theme...

EJ, Duchene and Stuart for Carle, Drouin and Hedman.

I know, wont happen, etc...but if you squint just right, it looks logical. this is assuming they lose Stamkos, and Stuart can go LTIR, we buy out Carle.

 

[CobraAcesS]

EJ's been off since the injury. My guess would be that he rushed back too soon and isn't fully healthy. We saw how much that was effecting Landy before he had the ASB to get his **** together.



Rather keep MacK. Peacock-Meloche is going to be a dominant pairing in time, and in a year or two Bigras-Barrie could be a top pairing in their own right.

I'm just trying to highlight the fact that they may end up believing trading a #1 center for a #1 defender is the best route. They may even have to add a 1st round pick to bring it over the top if it's Duchene in some cases.

Either way the result is the same

Edit : Personally I'd rather keep MacK as well, but they may find out that with certain teams MacK will fit their age group better than Duchene will, and he would likely be the ask. You'd hope that you could convince AZ on OEL for Duchene with a touch to put it over the top, but since OEL and Duchene are in the same age range they might not see the benefit.

STL or NY would be more likely to part with their guy for a guy in Duchene's age range though. STL, NY and AZ are the only one who could move a guy like that who is established. I don't believe MTL would do it, even if they do need a #1 center.

Winnipeg could trade Trouba, but would we trade Duchene for Trouba? There is a hell of a lot more risk there, and at that point we might as well wait on our own guys if you're going to consider guys who are not as proven.

 

[chet1926]

I'm really curious, do you expect Landeskog to produce as much as Duchene does offensively for him to have a successful season?

You shouldn't, and it's the reason hes still valued equal or more so than the guy who went #1 over all in his draft. Quite a bit of what he does is very difficult to keep track of when your watching him on TV.

Defenders and defensive forwards are always easier to evaluate live than on TV because you only get what the camera shows you, and most likely what your looking at is at the center of the camera no matter how much you try not to.

No I don't expect that Landeskog should produce at Duchene levels. But I do expect quality play that fits his game, especially from a guy who has played 1st line and 1st unit PP basically all season. 15 goals is pathetic from a guy getting those kind of minutes and has the skill set of Landeskog. He should be consistently scoring 25-30+ a year with less assists. He just needs to park his ass in front of the net and get some dirty goals. As much I hate Todd Bertuzzi or Holmstrom, Landy needs to take a page out their book and just park it front of the net. He is a big dude and is strong, no reason he shouldn't be getting 15 or so goals a year from inside of 5 ft.

I'm not concerned about his defensive side of the game, I know he can do that at a quality level. He is one of our better forwards in that regard.

The team needs Landy along with some other guys like MacK and Duchene to be better offensively. MacK and Duchene can be the pretty finesse type players, because they have all world puck skills and speed to burn and that works for them. Landy now plays on a line with MacK and Boedker, let them do the pretty **** and Landy needs to park his ass in front of the goalie. If he's not willing to muck it up in front of the net for the last 18 games this year, then he seriously needs to be gone. Because this team needs him to score the ugly goals, not play perimeter hockey, which he has been playing a lot this year. Landy isn't a high skilled finesse player, he is and was drafted to be a power forward with skills. Be a power forward and crash the freaking net.

I'll say this, if Landeskog parks his ass in front of the net the rest of the season and causes havoc there, we'll probably make the playoffs because we'll be getting those ugly goals that you have to score at this time of the year. If he continues to play perimeter hockey and expects others to go to the net we'll probably miss the playoffs because we don't have another top 6 forward with his skill set that can be a force in front of the net.

I just want Landeskog to go back to playing a power forward offensive game. Park it in front of the net cause havoc there and make life miserable on the goalie and the guy trying to defend you. I should see on a nightly basis either a goalie pissed off at Landeskog for always being in his space or a pissed off defender who is sick of battling in front of the net. He does that, I'll be satisfied with his play.

 

[CobraAcesS]

No I don't expect that Landeskog should produce at Duchene levels. But I do expect quality play that fits his game, especially from a guy who has played 1st line and 1st unit PP basically all season. 15 goals is pathetic from a guy getting those kind of minutes and has the skill set of Landeskog. He should be consistently scoring 25-30+ a year with less assists. He just needs to park his ass in front of the net and get some dirty goals. As much I hate Todd Bertuzzi or Holmstrom, Landy needs to take a page out their book and just park it front of the net. He is a big dude and is strong, no reason he shouldn't be getting 15 or so goals a year from inside of 5 ft.

I'm not concerned about his defensive side of the game, I know he can do that at a quality level. He is one of our better forwards in that regard.

The team needs Landy along with some other guys like MacK and Duchene to be better offensively. MacK and Duchene can be the pretty finesse type players, because they have all world puck skills and speed to burn and that works for them. Landy now plays on a line with MacK and Boedker, let them do the pretty **** and Landy needs to park his ass in front of the goalie. If he's not willing to muck it up in front of the net for the last 18 games this year, then he seriously needs to be gone. Because this team needs him to score the ugly goals, not play perimeter hockey, which he has been playing a lot this year. Landy isn't a high skilled finesse player, he is and was drafted to be a power forward with skills. Be a power forward and crash the freaking net.

I'll say this, if Landeskog parks his ass in front of the net the rest of the season and causes havoc there, we'll probably make the playoffs because we'll be getting those ugly goals that you have to score at this time of the year. If he continues to play perimeter hockey and expects others to go to the net we'll probably miss the playoffs because we don't have another top 6 forward with his skill set that can be a force in front of the net.

I just want Landeskog to go back to playing a power forward offensive game. Park it in front of the net cause havoc there and make life miserable on the goalie and the guy trying to defend you. I should see on a nightly basis either a goalie pissed off at Landeskog for always being in his space or a pissed off defender who is sick of battling in front of the net. He does that, I'll be satisfied with his play.

I do think he could be better around the net than he has been lately, but while hes been better in his over all game. I don't believe he'll have his hands fully or be able to really windup for shots until he has surgery on his shoulder.

We'll have to wait until the off-season to have that question answered though.

 

[the_fan]

Stupid trade idea following along the trade the core theme...

EJ, Duchene and Stuart for Carle, Drouin and Hedman.

I know, wont happen, etc...but if you squint just right, it looks logical. this is assuming they lose Stamkos, and Stuart can go LTIR, we buy out Carle.

EJ and Duchene will probably only get Hedman in return, Stuart is pretty useless without a value

 

[Tweaky]

EJ+Duchene>Hedman, add Drouin...now too much, so add cap dump Carle...Stuart evens out contract number, but with buyout it doesn't matter I guess.

 

[the_fan]

EJ+Duchene>Hedman, add Drouin...now too much, so add cap dump Carle...Stuart evens out contract number, but with buyout it doesn't matter I guess.

Yeah no, Tampa will pass

 

[tigervixxxen]

Just the whole thought of this makes me angry not because the core shouldn't be questioned and I understand not everyone is going to be around forever but is this team mediocre because of the core or the team around them? Could the core perform better, yes but they could also be put in a better position to succeed as well.

This org refused to accept a full rebuild, they got in a few core pieces and still refuse to accept what this team is. I know they can't wait forever and say better luck next year but this is what you get when you keep kicking the can down the road, this no man's land of a team. Every year getting rid of a key piece seems to be a set back too.

 

[CobraAcesS]

EJ+Duchene>Hedman, add Drouin...now too much, so add cap dump Carle...Stuart evens out contract number, but with buyout it doesn't matter I guess.

Yeah but they are playing with things on that team that they have no need to. They already have their right handed partner for Hedman.

Replacing that with a RH guy would mean they'd have to find a LH partner to fit.

No need for them to do that IMO.

Stamkos walking will not kill that team, trust me.

Just the whole thought of this makes me angry not because the core shouldn't be questioned and I understand not everyone is going to be around forever but is this team mediocre because of the core or the team around them? Could the core perform better, yes but they could also be put in a better position to succeed as well.

This org refused to accept a full rebuild, they got in a few core pieces and still refuse to accept what this team is. I know they can't wait forever and say better luck next year but this is what you get when you keep kicking the can down the road, this no man's land of a team. Every year getting rid of a key piece seems to be a set back too.

The only move I can get behind is one like NSH & CBJ made, if they felt it was needed. Anything else or more would be insanely stupid.

For me personally narrowing the idea down to this, and only this as a realistic possibility, is the only thing keeping remotely sane about anything involving our core group. The thought of anything else is just damn maddening IMO. I meant it when I used cutting off a limb to get another one as an analogy.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Just the whole thought of this makes me angry not because the core shouldn't be questioned and I understand not everyone is going to be around forever but is this team mediocre because of the core or the team around them? Could the core perform better, yes but they could also be put in a better position to succeed as well.

This org refused to accept a full rebuild, they got in a few core pieces and still refuse to accept what this team is. I know they can't wait forever and say better luck next year but this is what you get when you keep kicking the can down the road, this no man's land of a team.

Some would argue that they haven't had a proven top caliber coaching squad in a long time either (if ever).

 

[Tweaky]

For sure, there are more ways it does not work than there are that it does, especially from their end. But fun to think about.

 

[dahrougem2]

Chet, I'd rather Landeskog not turn into Dustin Brown or Mike Richards. If he plays the way you want him to play every single night, that's exactly what's going to happen to him sooner rather than later. That style of play is not sustainable. I'm fine with how Landeskog has played. He's tied for 3rd on the team in scoring while being the most defensively responsible forward and also killing penalties. He's Mr. Do-It-All for this team since ROR left. I have no issues with him whatsoever.