- Aug 25, 2006
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No what some were talking about (but not necessarily up to doing) was Barrie for Drouin + another very good piece. The Zads/Drouin deal is 1 for 1. Two very different deals.
Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics)
- Thread starter RockLobster
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- Jul 25, 2006
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Unless that very good piece is a top 4 d-man i would never give up Barrie for Drouin because that will leave a big hole in Avs defense again
Cousin Eddie
You Serious Clark?
- Nov 3, 2006
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Some mutual fans on the prospects board saying Tampa should take Bleackley+Siemens+1st and run. Is it just me or does anyone else think that offer would get beaten by somebody else in a second. I'd easily be willing to swap Meloche in for Siemens.
What Dmen do we have in the system? Siemens is nothing, Geertsen can't even get playing time in the AHL, Wood is still a few years off, and Meloche, the most talented of them all, is the same. Both of those guys are right shots too. It is absolutely an immediate problem. Banking on any of those guys to be able to play a top 4 role anytime soon is asking way too much.
If the backup plan is to pick up a UFA, then the Avs are already screwed. How many times have they whiffed on UFA defensemen in the past? Good players on defense don't really make it to UFA, and if they do, you have to overpay in term and cap hit. And even if they do make it to UFA, you can't bank on them to choose your team.
Also, if anyone is wondering, Tampa is one of the teams that actually does like Siemens.
Flanagan
Registered Loser
Doesn't Barrie have a history with the Lightning organization?
I know his dad used to own the team and for some reason I remember hearing the Tyson used to practice with them when he was 15/16ish.
Let's start some rumours!
I know his dad used to own the team and for some reason I remember hearing the Tyson used to practice with them when he was 15/16ish.
Let's start some rumours!
The only reason Barrie's name ever came up was because of his contract. If that is settled, he's not on the table ever.
JoemAvs
Registered User
- Jul 2, 2011
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Those fans probably do not realize that Siemens and Bleackleys value has gone down significantly since they were drafted.
On paper that is a #11 pick, a #23 pick and a #10-16 pick.
On paper that is crazy value for a guy who is holding out.
In reality it won't be enough.
That said. Most of the people outside of this board /fanbase are probably not really confident in the Avs making the playoffs. And the oddsmaker would probably agree with them. NSH and MIN could easily beat us out of a spot.
I wonder if Yzerman feels the same way.
If so that pick does have really good value.
If we start to drop a bit in the standings after the ASB and Drouin keeps holding out, a package around our #1, Compher and Grigorenko could easily be good enough.
That is pretty good value if the pick is around #10.
Your taking a general idea and applying it to our team without taking the other pieces into account. Maybe in general Dmen are more scarce and a premium is placed on them. In our situation though, top6 forwards are scarce.
Your right. That's not true. We need a guy like Drouin even more. Top6 forward is much more important than a bottom pair Dman. Then combine the fact that our Dman prospect pool is a lot better than our forwards.
Rant - MacK - Duchene
Lando - Yeti - ???
Comeau - Grigo - Iggy
McLeod - Mitchell - Skille
Bigras - EJ
Beauch - Barrie
Holden - ???
Foppa2118
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2003
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Probably. Mostly because TB would have to consider the Avs 1st as a mid round playoff pick at this point, not a 5-10 pick like it looked to be a while back. Big difference in value.
Other teams expecting to pick in the mid round would be pretty willing to give up their pick plus a prospect for a former #3 pick like Drouin. We'd probably get beaten out on the prospect, as there's probably someone that has a slightly better one than Bleackley/Siemens that they're able to give up.
cgf
FireBednarsSuccessor
The risk of Beauch hitting the same wall that we've already seen Hejda/Tanguay/Iginla/Stuart/Hejduk hit during the course of this rebuild; and of Holden turning back into a pumpkin/not really being what we want on our second pairing if we're gunning for the cup anyway; is much greater than the risks at forward.
When taking the NHL roster into account, this team desperately needs both Zadorov and Bigras much more than we do someone like Drouin.
Bubba Thudd
is getting banned
What forwards do we have in the system? It's possible none of them reach a top6 level (not counting Rantanen, already including him into the top6).
Who said anything about playing top4 anytime soon? We have players for the top4 right now. What we don't have is enough top6 forwards to even fill out the roster. The immediate problem is the top6. The top4 won't be a problem until Beauch can no longer play those minutes, which is not an immediate problem.
So your afraid of overpaying or not even getting a bottom pair Dman. But somehow a top6 FA forward will just fall in our lap? It's going to be a hell of a lot cheaper and easier to bring in a bottom pair guy than it will be to bring in a top6 forward.
Tommy Shelby
Registered User
- Feb 26, 2012
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That would be interesting, a swap consisting entirely of 1st round busts from both sides.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
We can get a FA winger easier than a FA D. Yeah you can easily get a Redmond in FA but to get a D that can play 20+ minutes is near impossible.
Bubba Thudd
is getting banned
- Feb 24, 2012
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I think both sides have a point. Drouin (without giving up Rantanen anyway) pretty much completes the top 6 going forward. The Avs could go very defensemen heavy in the next few drafts to build up the depth back up (I'd say they have some good depth there already, but they could) and with one of Bigras/Zadorov around... only one spot needs filled in the next couple seasons. Say they can swing a deal without giving up this year's first. There is a good chance that pick is in the mid teens and the Avs have a real good shot at drafting a Jake Bean type of defensemen.
On the other side... not getting Drouin means that the future defensemen are in pretty good shape. Zadorov still has some risk, but the pieces are there and it is just about developing them. The forwards still have holes and the Avs would have to find somebody in that same range (say Bellows for argument's sake).
So looking at it in that manner is Drouin + Bean = Zadorov + Bellows (with maybe another plus like a pick or Everberg)
On the other side... not getting Drouin means that the future defensemen are in pretty good shape. Zadorov still has some risk, but the pieces are there and it is just about developing them. The forwards still have holes and the Avs would have to find somebody in that same range (say Bellows for argument's sake).
So looking at it in that manner is Drouin + Bean = Zadorov + Bellows (with maybe another plus like a pick or Everberg)
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
That absolutely should not be the reason. It's a nice perk but nothing that these guys did in junior should be the foundation for trading for them. Grigo was the CHL rookie of the year, not even the QMJHL rookie of the year. Drouin gitting on this team has to stand on it's own merit. If they even play together and rekindle chemistry is a perk.
agentblack
Registered User
I think just about any team in that group outside the top tier of the draft spots can offer better than whatever spare parts we put together.
An 8th, 9th 10th overall straight up for Drouin beats out our 19th or 20th plus Siemens and Bleackley.
An 8th, 9th 10th overall straight up for Drouin beats out our 19th or 20th plus Siemens and Bleackley.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
agentblack
Registered User
True. Which is why I think TB should wait till the draft. I think everything should be done at draft lol.
But its because everyone gets to see where they are at then.
I mean if you do a deal now and some one says
"oh uh hey we'll uh give you our 1st lottery protected, (which this year means top 3) and this guy and this guy" and they take it. It could be anywhere from 4 to 30. Thats way too much uncertainty to deal with in this situation. Wait. I guarantee you every team in that 7-14,15 range will be ringing Stevie's phone off the hook.
They'll get a really good young talent and they might even get a nice cherry on top. Maybe that team that has the 8th offers that plus another pick that they got at the trade deadline.
- Feb 24, 2012
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The draft could very well be past the cup window for the team as it is currently constructed, they might want currency to build up for another cup run.
agentblack
Registered User
Of course my whole "wait till the draft thing" is only contingent on them not being able to get either Vatanen or Dumba. I think that should be plan A.
agentblack
Registered User
Meh It doesnt strike me as an Yzerman type of thing to do. Not that im some Stevie expert, But to trade JD for some rental that may or may not put them over the top? If this was Sather we were talking about...
- Feb 24, 2012
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I'm not saying a rental, but he might take back a 1st + prospect + bottom 6 roster player. Then swap the first + for a player that can help now and for a few years. Yzerman is a wheeler and dealer... he will gather assets and spend them in pretty quick succession.
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