Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) ‎

[agentblack]

Wayne was traded because Edmonton needed money, the days of player being traded for money is long gone.

Well yes technically but money is still a reason. Even more so today. My point was if he could be traded anyone can.
You can make an argument for McJesus but anything in life can happen. We literally just saw something cray cray happen to an "untouchable" in P. Kane over the summer and all of a sudden he might get traded.

 

[dahrougem2]

Wayne was traded because Edmonton needed money, the days of player being traded for money is long gone.

Pretty much. If Pocklington didn't run out of money the Oilers never would have broke up the dynasty and that team probably would have won a few more cups.

You guys don't think they put emphasis on it? It wasn't just some dater twitter narrative. I don't know the chances of it happening but it was a real threat.

I put emphasis on it because I think Patrick Roy has a vision of the kind of team he wants, and he will do whatever he can to achieve that vision. Whether or not that includes Duchene/Barrie/Varlamov/Landeskog remains to be seen, but I believe that he'll discuss moving them with Sakic and push it hard if he sees something he wants.

Whether it makes us better or not is a different discussion. But I believe Roy has his own vision for a team and wants to build it sooner rather than later.

 

[Freudian]

I think you have to separate things. Roy and Sakic definitely said they expect more from the core but the the trade thing was a response to a direct question about the core and Sakic replied:

"I mean Wayne Gretzky got traded. Twice. It's something we're going to look at all different options on how to get better and we're going to consider different avenues and things we might look to do but we're not going to make any quick decisions. It's not going to be something we're looking to do but we have to explore different options to see how we can become a better team. With that being said we do understand we have some young D. It's not a quick fix".

It's just standard GM talk. Almost all GMs pull out the no one is safe speech after a disappointing season. It doesn't mean they are looking to ship out their best players.

 

[5280]

I think you have to separate things. Roy and Sakic definitely said they expect more from the core but the the trade thing was a response to a direct question about the core and Sakic replied:

"I mean Wayne Gretzky got traded. Twice. It's something we're going to look at all different options on how to get better and we're going to consider different avenues and things we might look to do but we're not going to make any quick decisions. It's not going to be something we're looking to do but we have to explore different options to see how we can become a better team. With that being said we do understand we have some young D. It's not a quick fix".

It's just standard GM talk. Almost all GMs pull out the no one is safe speech after a disappointing season. It doesn't mean they are looking to ship out their best players.

Yep! Pretty much exactly the way I took it.

 

[tigervixxxen]

We hope that's the case

 

[5280]

We hope that's the case

I could care less, I'm not really attached to these players as much as some others. I'd rather have a winning team...

That being said, I still don't buy the Dater talk, and pretty much agree with what Freud was getting at. There is a difference between actively looking to trade players and looking at all possibilities to make the team better.

 

[dahrougem2]

I could care less, I'm not really attached to these players as much as some others. I'd rather have a winning team...

Pretty much. If we could guarantee a Stanley Cup by trading every player on this team I'd do it in a nano-second.

 

[Freudian]

I'm sure Roy and Sakic would like to make changes to the teams mix. A bigger center that's better than Söderberg as 1C/2C would probably be something they like and Sakic mentioned they'd like to upgrade defense.

But the market for high end players is so limited and it's so costly that it's very hard to make those fundamental changes. That's where something like a Drouin trade is one of the few realistic trades that can be made and even then you are buying potential as much as current ability.

It's very much a drafting league these days. That's why you should hang on to your picks and prospects until you know what you have.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Pretty much. If we could guarantee a Stanley Cup by trading every player on this team I'd do it in a nano-second.

We all are here to obviously watch the team win but no I don't agree with that. Then why not just be a Blackhawks fan? The point to being a fan is the connection as well. If someone could come back in a time machine and say trading Duchene for X and we win the Cup in the next 3 years I'm sure we'd all take it but we don't have that luxury. It would be nice to have faith that every move makes the team better too but there are mistakes, bad luck and other things like money, politics, personal situations, etc that get in the way too. So no, I'm not anxious to see a big move happen.

 

[agentblack]

I def. see both points. If hypothetically speaking trading Duchene got us a cup, yeah sure. But it wouldnt be nearly as emotionally satisfying without having Duchene skate around with the cup like his heroes did.
..not a dry eye in the can.

 

[the_fan]

Roy and Sakic have been saying they want to make the team better every year since they got hired, the problem is the team is actually getting worse every year since their 1st year. It's so much easier to say it than actually do it.

I really think this organization is more worried about attendance and Kroenke's making money (or not losing money) than actually building a winning team that's why they keep making promises and coming up with excuses to fool the fans to keep buying those season tickets.

 

[McMetal]

Roy and Sakic have been saying they want to make the team better every year since they got hired, the problem is the team is actually getting worse every year since their 1st year. It's so much easier to say it than actually do it.

I really think this organization is more worried about attendance and Kroenke's making money (or not losing money) than actually building a winning team that's why they keep making promises and coming up with excuses to fool the fans to keep buying those season tickets.

That's ridiculous. The only way to drive attendance is to win. Promises don't do jack. They do genuinely intend to build a winning team, and so does Kroenke, because it's good for his wallet. The best way to make money is to make the playoffs, and even if Roy and Sakic's personal pride wasn't on the line they would still want to build a winner. If the idea was to just turn a profit they'd be chasing the cap floor while blowing that smoke instead of running into cap crunch time this offseason.

 

[the_fan]

That's ridiculous. The only way to drive attendance is to win. Promises don't do jack. They do genuinely intend to build a winning team, and so does Kroenke, because it's good for his wallet. The best way to make money is to make the playoffs, and even if Roy and Sakic's personal pride wasn't on the line they would still want to build a winner. If the idea was to just turn a profit they'd be chasing the cap floor while blowing that smoke instead of running into cap crunch time this offseason.

I'm not saying making or not losing money is all they care about, I'm just saying Kroenkes strike me as type of rich owners who care more about money than winning. I'm sure Sakic and Roy are trying to make the playoffs, but they're getting rid of expensive players and trying cheap alternative instead, and that has been this team's trend since the salary cap

 

[flyfysher]

Roy and Sakic have been saying they want to make the team better every year since they got hired, the problem is the team is actually getting worse every year since their 1st year. It's so much easier to say it than actually do it.

I really think this organization is more worried about attendance and Kroenke's making money (or not losing money) than actually building a winning team that's why they keep making promises and coming up with excuses to fool the fans to keep buying those season tickets.

IMHO that's a truly cynical viewpoint. Not one that I think has any truth in it either.

 

[tigervixxxen]

There is a lot more to Kroenke's bottom line than straight attendance. He owns several sports teams in Denver, he owns the entire supply chain from the ticketing to the arena, tv channel, now a radio station. There is no way anyone has any clue how all those things, including attendance, effect their bottom line. Plus nobody has any clue how significant, if at all, the Avs portfolio in the Denver sports portfolio is compared to their billions of net worth and their MUCH larger sports enterprises. The Avs are akin to the change they find in the couch cushions and the difference between being "cheap" and spending to the cap is not even 10M. I'm sure they like making money more than losing money, I'm sure attendance is important to them but its just downright laughable to find any sort of significance in it to the Kroenkes. Plus, the Avs attendance has actually gone up each of the last three years and is significantly better than the Nuggets. The Avs are actually a better team than the Nuggets and are occupying the "casual fan share" of the ticket sales between the two teams.

 

[the_fan]

All I'm saying is there are passionate owners who are really into hockey and really care about their team winning, Kroenke is not one of those owners, he's strictly the business side of things and that really makes a huge difference when building a winning NHL team

 

[dahrougem2]

We all are here to obviously watch the team win but no I don't agree with that. Then why not just be a Blackhawks fan? The point to being a fan is the connection as well. If someone could come back in a time machine and say trading Duchene for X and we win the Cup in the next 3 years I'm sure we'd all take it but we don't have that luxury. It would be nice to have faith that every move makes the team better too but there are mistakes, bad luck and other things like money, politics, personal situations, etc that get in the way too. So no, I'm not anxious to see a big move happen.

I cheer for the team. Personal connections with the players come with results and on-ice play. I don't cheer for Chicago because they aren't my team. Pretty simple concept. I cheered for this team long before any of the current players were here, and I'll cheer for the team long after they're gone.

 

[tigervixxxen]

All I'm saying is there are passionate owners who are really into hockey and really care about their team winning, Kroenke is not one of those owners, he's strictly the business side of things and that really makes a huge difference when building a winning NHL team

Sure, they are owners that are hands off. But what the Avs do means nothing to them, good or bad. They won't meddle, they won't push financial pressure on the franchise. They also don't know any better and can't inflict change on their own. They stay out of it on all accounts.

I cheer for the team. Personal connections with the players come with results and on-ice play. I don't cheer for Chicago because they aren't my team. Pretty simple concept. I cheered for this team long before any of the current players were here, and I'll cheer for the team long after they're gone.

My point is are they your team if you woke up tomorrow and every single player was switched out for another? I'd eventually grow to care about whoever wears the A but it would take time.

 

[dahrougem2]

My point is are they your team if you woke up tomorrow and every single player was switched out for another? I'd eventually grow to care about whoever wears the A but it would take time.

Of course they are. Like I said, I cheer for the team. So if tomorrow every player on this team was traded to Chicago for every player on the Blackhawks, I wouldn't be cheering for the new Chicago Blackhawks just because it's all our ex players, and I would be cheering for the Avs even if they're all ex-Hawks.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I think I agree with TV's guess from a little while ago about how they're saying nobody is safe to sort of warm everybody up and prepare us for the fact that Tyson Barrie might not get a contract from us and will be on the move because of it.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

I think I agree with TV's guess from a little while ago about how they're saying nobody is safe to sort of warm everybody up and prepare us for the fact that Tyson Barrie might not get a contract from us and will be on the move because of it.

They'd rather it look like a "strategic shakeup" than "being cheap".

 

[tigervixxxen]

It would be to manage the cap and not being cheap but you know the local media are idiots and they think not paying Barrie would be being cheap and the Duchene cap blah blah. They really won't be forced to move Barrie, they can just live with the arb award if worse comes to worse But If they decide that they'll never get up to the area where he wants it and they feel a shakeup has to happen then yeah I could see it. I just have a tough time seeing any forward moved, we need more of them and not less. Unless a perfect hockey trade comes up.

 

[Avs44]

It would be to manage the cap and not being cheap but you know the local media are idiots and they think not paying Barrie would be being cheap and the Duchene cap blah blah. They really won't be forced to move Barrie, they can just live with the arb award if worse comes to worse But If they decide that they'll never get up to the area where he wants it and they feel a shakeup has to happen then yeah I could see it. I just have a tough time seeing any forward moved, we need more of them and not less. Unless a perfect hockey trade comes up.

An arbitration award means it's O'Reilly 2.0. If it is going to arbitration, he should be traded immediately. I think we'd get a better return with him still having RFA years left, than him going to UFA.

 

[ABasin]

I cheer for the team. Personal connections with the players come with results and on-ice play. I don't cheer for Chicago because they aren't my team. Pretty simple concept. I cheered for this team long before any of the current players were here, and I'll cheer for the team long after they're gone.

I'm with you here. I said this 3 years ago and it still applies today: I don't are if they trade all of the current players for new players, as long as: the new players are better, there is ample youth on the team, and there are no boat anchor contracts. The individual players aren't as important as a good team.

Now that said, could our current GM effectively pull off a roster overhaul like that - even a percentage like that? Doubtful. But in the end, I'm not a fan who falls in love with an individual player, unless that player is truly special. And this roster (and organization) doesn't seem to have any of those.

 

[ABasin]

My point is are they your team if you woke up tomorrow and every single player was switched out for another?

Without a doubt, yes.