Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part VI

[CobraAcesS]

Yeah that makes sense. I did not realize you valued them so differently.

Personally I value them close to the same so it did not make sense that you were receptive towards a Serge + deal for Duchene and not want to do a Landeskog for Hanifin swap.


I also would prefer to hang onto Landeskog but I think Duchene is the better offensive player by quite a bit so I think they are worth around the same.

I don't want to lose both so I would just trade either one for Hanifin and get it over with. As I said. I am souring on Serge so I wouldn't want to trade with MTL anyways and would very much prefer to make something happen with the Canes.

It helps that IMO Carolina would go for Duchene over Landeskog anyways. That is also why I used him in the proposal above.

I really don't think the Canes should go for Landeskog over Duchene from a Canes perspective.

They need that extra skill level that Duchene has way more than Landys all around greatness IMO.

7 points per 82 games is what separates them offensively, and while +/- is a **** stat, it's also worth pointing out. Duchene is a career -38, while Landeskog is +20, but I didn't really need to point that out did I? Because we all know Landeskog is far and away the more defensively responsible player.

Now add on to the marginal offensive difference, their ages, and their contracts, that's where Landeskog pulls ahead for me.

Also I don't believe Duchene is a center here long term, so I value him as a RW who is really good at face-offs moving forward. Most other teams will probably value him as a C, so that may makeup the difference if that's the major need they have.

Edit : Btw, I agree with you on Carolina's need for a Duchene over Landeskog. However... Skinner and Landeskog are close friends. So there is that as well.

 

[JoemAvs]

7 points per 82 games is what separates them offensively, and while +/- is a **** stat, it's also worth pointing out. Duchene is a career -38, while Landeskog is +20, but I didn't really need to point that out did I? Because we all know Landeskog is far and away the more defensively responsible player.

Now add on to the marginal offensive difference, their ages, and their contracts, that's where Landeskog pulls ahead for me.

Also I don't believe Duchene is a center here long term, so I value him as a RW who is really good at face-offs moving forward. Most other teams will probably value him as a C, so that may makeup the difference if that's the major need they have.

It is not about points. It is about Duchene IMO simply being a more talented hockey player with more skill to his name than Landeskog.

Also Landy always had the better linemates and hasn't been the driving force on his line since probably his rookie season.

Lando is a way better two-way player and way more physical. I love both of them.

But for a team in need of offense like the Canes, you IMO go Duchene 10 times out of 10.

You are probably right about Duchene being a winger but unfortunately I don't think it will matter.


I sadly think that Duchene is a goner either way if the return is good enough

I think it is either both or only Duchene that will go.

EDIT:

I added an edit as well. People are getting so fast with their responses that I probably should change my usual habit of pressing send before I proof read / revise my post (which I often do )

 

[CobraAcesS]

It is not about points. It is about Duchene IMO simply being a more talented hockey player with more skill to his name than Landeskog.

Also Landy always had the better linemates and hasn't been the driving force on his line since probably his rookie season.

Lando is a way better two-way player and way more physical. I love both of them.

But for a team in need of offense like the Canes, you IMO go Duchene 10 times out of 10.

Yeah I added an edit, I agree with you there.

 

[agentblack]

I can understand why CAR would prefer Landy , younger, better contract. To give up significant assets without knowing if he's gonna stick around in a couple years.

 

[RockLobster]

I can understand why CAR would prefer Landy , younger, better contract. To give up significant assets without knowing if he's gonna stick around in a couple years.

Then that team should never make trades.

2.5 years isn't the same as a rental. So they're acting as if either their team will be a complete dumpster fire, or they don't have confidence in their GM to secure a signature.

Duchene as is right now is more than enough to get Hanifin back.

 

[Jumptheshark]

hello avs fan--I would say I am an oiler fan who comes in peace--but you will be the judge of that

Oiler fans seem hell bend to for leather to get another RHD for the PP

they are liking Mike Green for a first and Celeb Jones--

I would rather get Barrie for that then Green

So how bad is a an Oiler first and Jones for Barrie trade? I suspect first reponse will be I misspelled Leon D's name--but McDavid and Leon D are untouchable

 

[Cousin Eddie]

hello avs fan--I would say I am an oiler fan who comes in peace--but you will be the judge of that

Oiler fans seem hell bend to for leather to get another RHD for the PP

they are liking Mike Green for a first and Celeb Jones--

I would rather get Barrie for that then Green

So how bad is a an Oiler first and Jones for Barrie trade? I suspect first reponse will be I misspelled Leon D's name--but McDavid and Leon D are untouchable

We want poolparty. Not sure if that's doable or not. Sakic wanted Hall or Draisaitl for Barrie and since a deal never happened I'm guessing that means you're right in saying Leon won't be moving.

 

[CobraAcesS]

hello avs fan--I would say I am an oiler fan who comes in peace--but you will be the judge of that

Oiler fans seem hell bend to for leather to get another RHD for the PP

they are liking Mike Green for a first and Celeb Jones--

I would rather get Barrie for that then Green

So how bad is a an Oiler first and Jones for Barrie trade? I suspect first reponse will be I misspelled Leon D's name--but McDavid and Leon D are untouchable

Sakic asked for Leon, and I doubt that would have changed.

Edit : I would have been fine with the 4th O/A, but Pjs isn't doing so hot right now. Besides, we're not going to trade Barrie before we make a move for another defender anyways.

 

[Jumptheshark]

We want poolparty. Not sure if that's doable or not. Sakic wanted Hall or Draisaitl for Barrie and since a deal never happened I'm guessing that means you're right in saying Leon won't be moving.

Sakic asked for Leon, and I doubt that would have changed.

If you are asking for Leon D--Oilers would ask you guys to add something big

Oilers are looking to have the McDavid-Leon D depth at center reflect the Gretz-Messier combo in the 80's--for those too young to remember, before Mess went to C he was on the wing on Gretz line for the first cup win

 

[JoemAvs]

Sakic asked for Leon, and I doubt that would have changed.

Edit : I would have been fine with the 4th O/A, but Pjs isn't doing so hot right now. Besides, we're not going to trade Barrie before we make a move for another defender anyways.

Think the Avs would settle on Poolparty + Bear for Barrie + Siemens or something like that.

I am not the biggest Poolparty fan but with us going for a rebuild, it is probably the best we can hope for if we trade Barrie (still not sure that we should unless we really go rebuild).


As much as I would love to watch my fellow countryman rocking burgundy and blue, there is just no way that they will trade him.

Atleast not for a Barrie. Maybe for a Werenski or Provorov. But not for a Barrie.

 

[Avs44]

If you are asking for Leon D--Oilers would ask you guys to add something big

Oilers are looking to have the McDavid-Leon D depth at center reflect the Gretz-Messier combo in the 80's--for those too young to remember, before Mess went to C he was on the wing on Gretz line for the first cup win

Oh, Draisaitl will never happen for Barrie. Chiarelli would have lost his mind if he trades Draisaitl for anything short of a Parayko type in return, and considering where Eberle and RNH are at right now, he shouldn't do that either. I just don't see the Avs trading Barrie for a mid to late 1st rounder + decent / good, but not outstanding, prospect. Barrie is only 25, he can be kept around, and probably will be. With EJ injured right now, and the risk of that happening in the future is real...who would play on the right side without Barrie? Goloubef? Beauchemin on his off side? Kids need to be sheltered, even if the Avs do rebuild. A Barrie-less defense, if EJ gets injured, would hit even higher levels of disaster than it is right now.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Think the Avs would settle on Poolparty + Bear for Barrie + Siemens or something like that.

I am not the biggest Poolparty fan but with us going for a rebuild, it is probably the best we can hope for if we trade Barrie (still not sure that we should unless we really go rebuild).


As much as I would love to watch my fellow countryman rocking burgundy and blue, there is just no way that they will trade him.

Atleast not for a Barrie. Maybe for a Werenski or Provorov. But not for a Barrie.

Well then I'll hold out hope that Tampa would trade Drouin for him, lol.

I'd be fine with Pj, but I'd definitely test the field for better offers.

If you are asking for Leon D--Oilers would ask you guys to add something big

Oilers are looking to have the McDavid-Leon D depth at center reflect the Gretz-Messier combo in the 80's--for those too young to remember, before Mess went to C he was on the wing on Gretz line for the first cup win

I know, but I don't think you are getting him for a 1st + any of your prospects not on the NHL roster.

 

[AslanRH]

I know, but I don't think you are getting him for a 1st + any of your prospects not on the NHL roster.

Well Poolparty did just get reassigned to the AHL, so there's that

 

[CobraAcesS]

Well Poolparty did just get reassigned to the AHL, so there's that

Ha, sure we can do a 1st + Pj

 

[Skip2myBordyloo]

I'd do Puljujarvi straight up.

 

[Avs44]

Don't imagine the Oilers do that either. Draisaitl, Puljujarvi, and McDavid are their future up front. Don't think the Oilers and Avs make good trading partners at all.

 

[BK Avs]

Look around the league.

Most teams don't have 4 forwards as good as Mac, Landeskog, Duchene and Rants and are still way better offensively than we are.

Avs need better forward depth and most importantly a way better D if they want to fix their scoring issues.

Dmen are almost as important when it comes to creating offense than forwards are.

Look at the Blue Jackets.

A great D makes a mediocre/decent forward group look amazing.

A terrible D makes 4 top tier forwards look like crap for the Avs. Especially when they have no help up front.

I think trading one could be beneficial.

I think it's extremely difficult to have success if your forward core is significantly further along than your defense.
Adding forwards is much easier, especially through the defense. When was the last time we've been able to look at our defense as a strength? 15 years ago?

Until the defense is fixed properly, you won't have success moving forward.

Give me a good defence with a weak forward core rather than the opposite.

I think I pretty much agree that our D needs improvement, but it seemed to me to be showing improvement before EJ went down, especially Zadorov taking major steps forward. Definitely some struggles adjusting to Bednar's new system, and FB suddenly becoming terrible, but there was progress. And we still haven't gotten a chance to see what we have in Bigras. A D core of EJ, Z, Bigras, and Barrie (or, as I might prefer, a similar but more rounded piece we could get in a relatively lateral trade) with some experience under Bednar's improved system (and our horrific goaltending coming back to average) could be the successful D core we're looking for, but without having to sacrifice our good forward assets and also without having to wait another few years for newly acquired futures to develop.

Because the Avs could start a new rebuild with a stacked defensive "prospect" pool. Build that into a position of strength, while having a forward core of MacKinnon, Rantanen, Jost, and their first round pick this year. All under 22 years old.

Jost and and our 1st are still big question marks. I guess if we are going nuke it and go for a total rebuild, this is the right strategy, I'm just not convinced another rebuild is the right way to go right now. I think it's a panic move in the wake of some extenuating circumstances.

 

[Nalens Oga]

I don't think it's a panic move. I think it's warranted after 3 seasons of bad hockey. What the Bruins did moving Dougie Hamilton after missing the playoffs once was a panic move.

Longer you wait the more diminishing the returns get imo. Varly's the best example of that, he went from being a good asset in the summer to basically being a bad contract that we're gonna end up waiting to expire. The others would've gotten more back if they'd been moved last summer compared to next as well.

 

[InjuredChoker]

if you want to improve your power play, barrie is not your guy.

 

[Avs71]

Jost and and our 1st are still big question marks. I guess if we are going nuke it and go for a total rebuild, this is the right strategy, I'm just not convinced another rebuild is the right way to go right now. I think it's a panic move in the wake of some extenuating circumstances.

I can see where you are coming from, but I have to disagree on the defence being passable next season with Zadorov's growth, and Bigras being called up. The big reason for this is because EJ is a total wild card every season due to his health, and Barrie seems to go through these long spells of terrible hockey (where he still manages to wrack up points). I just don't think any defence core where EJ/Barrie are your two highest paid defencemen will go very far, unless totally surround by other good to great defencemen as well.

If, in the worst case scenario, Sakic traded Duchene straight up for Sergachev, and Landeskog straight up for Carlo, the Avs would potentially have a defensive group that could look like this next season:

Zadorov-EJ
Sergachev-Carlo
Bigras-Barrie

While I don't think all those pieces fit together extremely well, that group has the potential to grow into a very strong core, that is deep beyond the first pairing. Something this team hasn't seen since the late 90s/early 2000s.

The Avs will probably have some sort of future forward core that looks like this after the draft (depends on the 1st round pick this season):

Rantanen-Mackinnon-__________
Jost-Patrick-________
Greer-Compher-________

Everyone in this group is 21 or under right now. This is the window the Avs should be looking at to become a competitive team. They need to find defencemen to sink up with this future forward group. Trading Duchene and Landeskog, who are already in their mid-20s, would be a great way to do that.

 

[Avs_19]

Hoping it's unrelated to one of the core guys. Kings don't have the good young pieces I'd like in return.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Ugh yeah. Kings means Landy and an unexciting vet defensemen.

 

[Freudian]

Avs are going to get fleeced if they trade Landeskog to Kings. There is pretty much nothing there that helps us in the long run.

So scary that the pro scouts that got us Stuart, Iginla, Beachemin, Colborne, Söderberg are actually out there looking at players.

 

[Avs_19]

Did someone really mention Martinez as a possibility the other day?

 

[Balthazar]

Hoping it's unrelated to one of the core guys. Kings don't have the good young pieces I'd like in return.

I swear, we better not trade a core player for a vet dman.