Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Related Topics 2016-17 Part VI

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

What he does/did in AHL does not hold a lot of meaning on what he becomes in the NHL. If he had a bad time in the A, the argument would be reversed.

Chara is an anomaly. The game is getting younger top prospects are entering the NHL faster. I'm not saying we should write Zads off but to expect him to become the next Chara is irresponsible.

 

[Foppberg]

Oh yeah ok. I also didn't know what I was talking about years ago when the Avs drafted Duchene and Landeskog, everyone thought the Avs would become a winning team with that core, and I said Duchene and Landeskog aren't as good as poeple think, and whatever I thought would happen, has happened. I said a rebuild around guys like Duchene and Landeskog will fail and it has.

You can go back and check those posts from years ago if you think I'm making stuff up. People just tend to get ahead of themselves on here. If Zadorov becomes a 3 or 4, you should be happy. But he's just not a top 2 from what I'm seeing.

So you think Landeskog and Duchene are the reason we're not a playoff team? It's a team game man two players don't make or break a team. You can pat yourself on the back about that if you want, though it's a bit bullish.

 

[Avs44]

What he does/did in AHL does not hold a lot of meaning on what he becomes in the NHL. If he had a bad time in the A, the argument would be reversed.

Chara is an anomaly. The game is getting younger top prospects are entering the NHL faster. I'm not saying we should write Zads off but to expect him to become the next Chara is irresponsible.

I've literally never seen anyone on this board state anything close to some variation of, "I expect Zads to be Chara." Ever.

 

[CobraAcesS]

What he does/did in AHL does not hold a lot of meaning on what he becomes in the NHL. If he had a bad time in the A, the argument would be reversed.

Chara is an anomaly. The game is getting younger top prospects are entering the NHL faster. I'm not saying we should write Zads off but to expect him to become the next Chara is irresponsible.

No one is banking on anything, but he has already given us games where hes played at a legit top pairing level. Hes also slowly becoming more consistent while playing against top competition. So why would anyone not be hopeful? Unless they feel like anything wearing an Avs sweater is a failure right now, and would rather hold onto what might have been scenarios.

 

[cgf]

I've literally never seen anyone on this board state anything close to some variation of, "I expect Zads to be Chara." Ever.

For what it's worth, I have said Zads could grow into a bigger and more creative EJ. And he absolutely can.

 

[member 116861]

I expect Zads to be Chara.

 

[Foppberg]

I expect Zads to be Pronger.

 

[cgf]

I expect Zads to be Pronger.

Hater.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I've literally never seen anyone on this board state anything close to some variation of, "I expect Zads to be Chara." Ever.

One page back...although from what I gather Cobra wasn't claiming he was going to be as good as Chara just that Chara's breakout was by the time he was in his mid 20's.

No one is banking on anything, but he has already given us games where hes played at a legit top pairing level. Hes also slowly becoming more consistent while playing against top competition. So why would anyone not be hopeful? Unless they feel like anything wearing an Avs sweater is a failure right now, and would rather hold onto what might have been scenarios.

I don't' see any signs of consistency. To be clear I'm not saying to be hopeful. Hope is always a good thing but one should be allowed to question his ability to become top pairing without being ridiculed.

For what it's worth, I have said Zads could grow into a bigger and more creative EJ. And he absolutely can.

Maybe, we should compare him with Trouba now that Troubs had more than 5 games into his season?

 

[CobraAcesS]

What he does/did in AHL does not hold a lot of meaning on what he becomes in the NHL. If he had a bad time in the A, the argument would be reversed.

Chara is an anomaly. The game is getting younger top prospects are entering the NHL faster. I'm not saying we should write Zads off but to expect him to become the next Chara is irresponsible.

I'm not comparing him to Chara, but until recently it was widely accepted that defenders don't hit their peak until their mid to late twenties. None of these new guys like Jones are old enough to know if they are at their peak early either.

How old is Hedman? 26 years old, and he hasn't been talked about as a Norris level defender until the last two years or so.

Also guess what happened? The rest of his damn team was built properly around him finally.

 

[cgf]

Maybe, we should compare him with Trouba now that Troubs had more than 5 games into his season?

He'll still surpass Trouba soon enough, so whatever makes you happy

 

[the_fan]

So you think Landeskog and Duchene are the reason we're not a playoff team? It's a team game man two players don't make or break a team. You can pat yourself on the back about that if you want, though it's a bit bullish.

Yeah it's a team game, but poeple though the Avs could build a team around Duchene and Landeskog, and all along I've been saying they're not the type of players you build a team around, and I was told I didn't know what I'm talking about, just like what I'm saying about Zadorov.

All I'm saying is don't get your hopes up that Zadorov is gonna become a top 2 d-man, that's all

 

[CobraAcesS]

One page back...although from what I gather Cobra wasn't claiming he was going to be as good as Chara just that Chara's breakout was by the time he was in his mid 20's.



I don't' see any signs of consistency. To be clear I'm not saying to be hopeful. Hope is always a good thing but one should be allowed to question his ability to become top pairing without being ridiculed.



Maybe, we should compare him with Trouba now that Troubs had more than 5 games into his season?

Questioning is a bit different than the statements you've been making. You haven't tried to have a relevant discussion with anyone regarding some of the stuff you're saying. You've just decided to make hard statements with a negative outlook.

 

[twostroke27]

I can't decide what I think zadorov will become yet. There are some nights when I think he's #1 dman and other times when I seriously question if he actually does have the tool box. That kind of comes with the territory for a young dman in this league. I think the main thing is if you look at his whole body of work this season, there are lots of things to be encouraged about.

No sense in saying he isn't top pairing this early. It's a posibility, but at this point I think it's just a big of a possibility he will be top pairing guy.

Defence development is really something that this fan base clearly hasn't seen a whole bunch of. Its a long road sometimes and there are a lot of bumps along the way. Just be patient with him.

 

[CobraAcesS]

For what it's worth, I have said Zads could grow into a bigger and more creative EJ. And he absolutely can.

I still like the Burns comparison you came up with back when. That makes the most sense to me.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I'm not comparing him to Chara, but until recently it was widely accepted that defenders don't hit their peak until their mid to late twenties. None of these new guys like Jones are old enough to know if they are at their peak early either.

How old is Hedman? 26 years old, and he hasn't been talked about as a Norris level defender until the last two years or so.

Also guess what happened? The rest of his damn team was built properly around him finally.

- I thought I cleared that up in my last post? You were making the comparison of one player breaking out later on in his career. Not thinking Zads is the next Chara in terms of actual ability.

- Defenders still peak mid 20's but are producing while they're young. Zadorov has not for the avs.

- Hedman by the time he was Zadorov's age was putting up 20+ points and at 22 years old was on pace for 30.

He'll still surpass Trouba soon enough, so whatever makes you happy

"soon" I'll have a german avatar for month if that ever happens.

Questioning is a bit different than the statements you've been making. You haven't tried to have a relevant discussion with anyone regarding some of the stuff you're saying. You've just decided to make hard statements with a negative outlook.

Not sure what you are saying here. I just said he lacks hockey IQ and some jumped on it.

 

[Foppberg]

Yeah it's a team game, but poeple though the Avs could build a team around Duchene and Landeskog, and all along I've been saying they're not the type of players you build a team around, and I was told I didn't know what I'm talking about, just like what I'm saying about Zadorov.

All I'm saying is don't get your hopes up that Zadorov is gonna become a top 2 d-man, that's all

He could very well only become a #3/4, but to say he absolutely won't be top 2 this early into the career is crazy.

 

[tigervixxxen]

What he does/did in AHL does not hold a lot of meaning on what he becomes in the NHL. If he had a bad time in the A, the argument would be reversed.

Chara is an anomaly. The game is getting younger top prospects are entering the NHL faster. I'm not saying we should write Zads off but to expect him to become the next Chara is irresponsible.

I don't really care what it means, I care about what I saw.

Muzzin and Martinez -3 tonight so hopefully that puts an end to that

 

[twostroke27]

Also, I'm really not sure how much i like the muzzin for Landy swap, but I do think it would be good for zads development. Granted you shouldn't trade a player like Lando for that reason, but it would be awful nice to see someone else carry the load with Johnson and to see zads/bigras insulated a bit. Also, if the avs are going to keep Barrie they need to play to his strengths, which is taking chances of offense. I can't say I'd love that trade but if the + was good I could probably live with it.

 

[Foppberg]

I kind of wonder if the LA scouting is more about someone else like Iginla or some other player and the rumours of them being interested in Landeskog is an assumption based on A) Avs being incredibly tight lipped B) all the general rumours around Landeskog/Duchene C) that Landeskog is a prototypical LA King type player.

After Sakic said he wants youth only.. I can't see what LA could offer that would be enough for Landeskog or Duchene.

 

[Foppa2118]

I kind of wonder if the LA scouting is more about someone else like Iginla or some other player and the rumours of them being interested in Landeskog is an assumption based on A) Avs being incredibly tight lipped B) all the general rumours around Landeskog/Duchene C) that Landeskog is a prototypical LA King type player.

After Sakic said he wants youth only.. I can't see what LA could offer that would be enough for Landeskog or Duchene.

Yea that's what I keep thinking. LA surely asked about Landy, why wouldn't they. Every team probably has. The Avs scouting presence hopefully is more regarding Iggy. LA has always seemed to me like one of the more likely destinations for him. They just do much better with guys like him than other teams.

 

[Avs44]

I kind of wonder if the LA scouting is more about someone else like Iginla or some other player and the rumours of them being interested in Landeskog is an assumption based on A) Avs being incredibly tight lipped B) all the general rumours around Landeskog/Duchene C) that Landeskog is a prototypical LA King type player.

After Sakic said he wants youth only.. I can't see what LA could offer that would be enough for Landeskog or Duchene.

You don't send 3 scouts to a game if you're trading them Iginla, unfortunately. What are they going to give back? A mid pick and a bottom tier roster player? Do you need 3 scouts to evaluate a bottom tier roster player? The Avs are obviously seriously watching somebody, which means somebody big would probably be going their way.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Personally I don't bet on anyone as a #1 or top pairing D. It's more situationally anyway. Zadorov can absolutely make a good pair with EJ, that's likely going to be the top pair. So it doesn't really matter if he's seen as a #1 around the league. Those two probably aren't the most cerebral but I don't consider them hockey dumb. Zadorov just has to trust his instincts and make quicker decisions. I don't ever feel like he was reading the play wrong or forcing things that weren't there.

And the whole thing of production from defensemen, we are talking goals here? Barrie has what 3 goals and he's our offensive defenseman.

I get the AHL isn't the NHL but it's the instincts, the way I saw him score and the offensive freedom he had which is why I think it's a skill that he can use at the NHL level.

 

[Foppberg]

You don't send 3 scouts to a game if you're trading them Iginla, unfortunately. What are they going to give back? A mid pick and a bottom tier roster player? Do you need 3 scouts to evaluate a bottom tier roster player? The Avs are obviously seriously watching somebody, which means somebody big would probably be going their way.

Fair enough.. I just really can't think of any good prospects that would be worth Landeskog. Kempe+ Clague + 1st? I have no idea.

 

[Foppa2118]

You don't send 3 scouts to a game if you're trading them Iginla, unfortunately. What are they going to give back? A mid pick and a bottom tier roster player? Do you need 3 scouts to evaluate a bottom tier roster player? The Avs are obviously seriously watching somebody, which means somebody big would probably be going their way.

Perhaps one or two are there to scout players and the others are there to scout the Kings. The Avs play them twice next month. Feb 1st and 21st. Might as well go together and share opinions.

Hopefully they're just doing their due diligence if they're scouting for a big trade. Nobody in that organization jumps out at me as a good return. A 29 year old Martinez or 27 year old Muzzin don't make any sense to me.