Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XXVII|Crosby+MacK = Tim's Empire

[MarkT]

JT, Stastny and Perron all would've been great adds.

Yeah I agree, if any of them wanted to come here. Based on where they ended up it looks like Colorado wasn't their first choice (if it was even a choice to begin with). Stastny wanted to play in Vegas. Perron wanted to go back to the Blues. Tavares wanted to play for Toronto. If any of them really wanted to be here (like Calvert has said he did), then they'd be here.

My issue is that people act like just because someone is a free agent, they automatically are willing to sign here, and then when they sign elsewhere, these same people blame Sakic for not signing them. That's not the way it works. If, for example, Hayes doesn't sign here this offseason, there are going to be people here who get angry at Sakic because in their minds Sakic is the reason he didn't sign here just like Sakic is the reason we didn't sign Stastny or other free agents besides Cole & Calvert.

 

[avsfan09]

Yeah, there's no point bringing up Tavares in this situation. To the bolded; Not LA, and Perron signed back with St Louis......... We know there was interest from Stastny's side last summer.

How do we know? Just curious, never heard anything definitive.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I really dislike how when a player plays poorly in the playoffs, people assume he's suddenly become a horrible player rather than assuming he's dealing with an injury, which is very common in the playoffs.

I also dislike this narrative that Sakic was sleeping/procrastinating/sitting on his hands this past calendar year. It so rarely is paired with any realistic notion of what exactly he could have done differently. I wager this is largely based on him not signing Stastny, who may have simply preferred signing with Vegas. Honestly, who were the 2nd line players even available for Sakic to get? Tavaras? Nope. Van Riemsdyk? Nope. Stastny? Address above. Neal? Glad he didn't. Perron? Bozak? Seriously who should he have got?

Also, should he have made final decisions about this roster after only one full season together? Seriously, it's almost as if people forgot the massive roster changes he made after the disaster season, or that he brought in two free agents last offseason and traded for a center with 2nd line potential at the deadline (obviously that one didn't work, but it was only for a 3rd). This is a not a GM who is afraid to make moves.

I've asked the same question a few time and it is usually answered with something like that: "There are "things" he could have done."

We don't know what he tried except for Stas but obviously he was happy to go to Vegas. Perron didn't look that good last year and he wanted to return to the Blues. He wasn't signing here. Van Riemsdyk wnated to go back to the Flyers. Tavares? Right? He was going to Toronto from day one. All other teams on his list were smoke screens to increase the bidding. Sakic did what he could last offseason without screwing himself off with the cap while still assessing the kids.

 

[LTC Pain]

So, Mods, if the Avs don't sign Hayes, can we get a separate "piss and moan" thread started for all the Hayes' groupies to complain about Joe Sakic in? Thanks in advance!

 

[Hasbro]

JT, Stastny and Perron all would've been great adds.

He did make a run at Stastny. Problem with UFAs is they have to agree.

 

[cgf]

So, Mods, if the Avs don't sign Hayes, can we get a separate "piss and moan" thread started for all the Hayes' groupies to complain about Joe Sakic in? Thanks in advance!

Nah, but you guys can have a separate thread in which to blow smoke up Sakic's ass

 

[Iracundia]

Brandon Tanev is a player I would like the Avs to target. He's probably a better version of Calvert that we need more of in the playoffs.

 

[Foppberg]

So, Mods, if the Avs don't sign Hayes, can we get a separate "piss and moan" thread started for all the Hayes' groupies to complain about Joe Sakic in? Thanks in advance!

After all these years we've never had a piss and moan thread for Barrie, you really think we'll get one for a guy that isn't even an Av yet? Foolish boy.

 

[the_fan]

I was thinking, yeah It would have been nice to win the lottery and draft Hughes, but after Hughes ELC, would the Avs be able to afford all those players

Rantanen
Hughes
Barrie
Makar
Landeskog

And that's even with MacKinnon still making 6 mill, but MacK's next contract will be a big one too. Dont think Avs would be able to keep all those players.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Nah, but you guys can have a separate thread in which to blow smoke up Sakic's ass

What some call blowing smoke others call it not making senseless assumptions.

 

[cgf]

What some call blowing smoke others call it not making senseless assumptions.

And what some people call "pissing & moaning" others call not making excuses for inaction

 

[AllAboutAvs]

And what some people call "pissing & moaning" others call not making excuses for inaction

And sometimes inaction is the right thing to do for examples when taking action could force you into contracts that you would regret later or bringing in players that are not the right fit, etc. Not to mention that inaction could easily be perceived by the players not being interested in coming to Colorado.

And let's not forget that Sakic did take some actions last summer. Don't we have Gru? Calvert is doing awesome. Cole has done some good too. And people were complaining Calvert's and Cole's contracts were overpayment (well Cole is for sure) proving my point about risk of taking action.

Perception is key in many cases.

 

[avsfan09]

Nah, but you guys can have a separate thread in which to blow smoke up Sakic's ass

Tbf not signing Hayes would be just another in a long line of good decisions

 

[avsfan09]

And what some people call "pissing & moaning" others call not making excuses for inaction

What action can you say he should have made without making any assumptions?

 

[cgf]

And sometimes inaction is the right thing to do for examples when taking action could force you into contracts that you would regret later or bringing in players that are not the right fit, etc. Not to mention that inaction could easily be perceived by the players not being interested in coming to Colorado.

And let's not forget that Sakic did take some actions last summer. Don't we have Gru? Calvert is doing awesome. Cole has done some good too. And people were complaining Calvert's and Cole's contracts were overpayment (well Cole is for sure) proving my point about risk of taking action.

Perception is key in many cases.

Bad moves are bad? I hadn't thought of that before...hmm...that's a really astute observation but being so terrified of making a bad move that you are paralyzed by cowardice, is always the wrong decision & how you become Winnipeg. So hopefully Joe can find his balls before that happens; as the clock is ticking...

 

[cgf]

What action can you say he should have made without making any assumptions?

He could've acquired help for the second line via FA or the trade front, he had the capspace & surplus to get it done & didn't. Boom. No assumptions needed.

 

[cgf]

Tbf not signing Hayes would be just another in a long line of good decisions

Letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is a great way to make yourself feel better about never achieving anything. It lets you pat yourself on the back without having to risk succeeding

 

[Ivan13]

I’m not a Sakic apologist, but what makes anyone think he didn’t try do do anything? Do any of you know a damn thing about who he was after? What trades did he try to facilitate? Which FA he courted? It’s like we live in a fairy tale world where you’ll sign or get anyone you want.

Colorado is far from a desirable destination for FAs. We have the worst travel miles in the league, the team has been horrible for what seems to be eons, and Denver while a terrific place to live, might not be young hockey player’s preferred playground like megapolis’ like LA, NY, Wsh, South Beach etc

 

[HugeMetalFan]

He could've acquired help for the second line via FA or the trade front, he had the capspace & surplus to get it done & didn't. Boom. No assumptions needed.

I personally think he didn't want to make the same mistake he did in 2014, thinking the team was ready and it wasn't. I think he wanted to see what we have for another full year before committing to more aggressive approach. And I don't disagree with that. But then again, if he knew we would have a chance to get to conference finals...I guess hindsight is 20/20.

 

[cgf]

I’m not a Sakic apologist, but what makes anyone think he didn’t try do do anything? Do any of you know a damn thing about who he was after? What trades did he try to facilitate? Which FA he courted? It’s like we live in a fairy tale world where you’ll sign or get anyone you want.

Colorado is far from a desirable destination for FAs. We have the worst travel miles in the league, the team has been horrible for what seems to be eons, and Denver while a terrific place to live, might not be young hockey player’s preferred playground like megapolis’ like LA, NY, Wsh, South Beach etc

I don't think anyone is saying that Joe didn't make any calls or do his basic due diligence...but there have been too many guys who have moved or been available via trade, whom we had the assets to acquire but didn't end up acquiring; for the "what if no one wanted to join us in FA" excuses not to ring hollow.

This is a team that needs 3 top 6ers and Joe didn't add a one; not last summer, not when this season started going off the rails, and not at the TDL when we had pulled out of our tailspin and were clawing our way back into the playoffs. To me, that points to a GM deciding that the prices weren't worth pulling the trigger on, not that there weren't triggers to pull; even if we're going exclusively based off of what's been reported...and let's just say that I don't trust Joe's judgment on big moves for the reasons I've listed on each of the previous pages in this thread

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Bad moves are bad? I hadn't thought of that before...hmm...that's a really astute observation but being so terrified of making a bad move that you are paralyzed by cowardice, is always the wrong decision & how you become Winnipeg. So hopefully Joe can find his balls before that happens; as the clock is ticking...

So now not only he was sitting on his hands last summer but now he was paralyzed by cowardice of making a move? Wow you just hit the cream of the cream of assumptions with that right there.

Sakic has made mistakes and he will make others in the future. No GM is perfect. One thing I do like about him is he learns from his mistakes...usually anyway. We could be entering cap hell in a year or two if he had made some of the deals you wish he had made. Last season was not the right time to make big moves. We were just one season removed from a 48pt season. It could have been all smoke just like 13-14 season. He needed to make moves that were manageable and keep assessing the rest of the roster. At the TDL he had the same problem as we were in freefall. It was again not the right time to add big pieces to the roster. The way the team responded and they have been playing shows that this summer and most likely next TDL is the time to make substantial move. Let's see what he does and then I might come around your side.

 

[Balthazar]

I think it could be a bit easier to lure some UFA's next summer after this playoff run.

 

[cgf]

I personally think he didn't want to make the same mistake he did in 2014, thinking the team was ready and it wasn't. I think he wanted to see what we have for another full year before committing to more aggressive approach. And I don't disagree with that. But then again, if he knew we would have a chance to get to conference finals...I guess hindsight is 20/20.

Agreed about 2014 still weighing heavily on Joe...but to me, that speaks ill of our FO's ability to determine what a winning foundation looks like in the modern NHL; rather than absolve them for their hesitation last summer. It's one thing for fans to take that kind of approach, but professionals are supposed to have expertise. Young teams that are going to ever arrive generally do so before "they're supposed to"...and with MacK's breakthrough and our blueline talent being much improved; we had a foundation that I see no reason the FO couldn't have seen was worth building on...so Joe should never have gambled this season on Kerfoot, Jost & Compher becoming a legit 2nd line.

You can call this hindsight and people often do blame others for things that were only clear with hindsight, but there was a number of us arguing these same things last summer; despite having argued that we shouldn't forget how much rebuilding we still had to do in 2009/2014. My position has not changed due to the results we've seen, so I'm not just preying on hindsight here...I may be a little more disappointed that he wasn't as proactive as I wanted after seeing the way the west has opened up for us and how pivotal ROR has been in pushing a division rival to the 2nd round of the playoffs, but this discussion started long before this season played out the way it did.

 

[Foppberg]

I think it could be a bit easier to lure some UFA's next summer after this playoff run.

Yup. Last summer the only big UFA I had any hope for was Stastny due to him being an ex Av, so maybe he'd be more open to coming back to play with his old buds. But this offseason.. We better get somebody. Up and coming team coming off back to back playoffs. Hayes, Ferland, Skinner. Something like that.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I don't think anyone is saying that Joe didn't make any calls or do his basic due diligence...but there have been too many guys who have moved or been available via trade, whom we had the assets to acquire but didn't end up acquiring; for the "what if no one wanted to join us in FA" excuses to ring hollow.

This is a team that needs 3 top 6ers and Joe didn't add a one. That points to a GM deciding that the prices weren't worth pulling the trigger, not that there weren't triggers to pull even if we're going exclusively based off of what's been reported...and let's just say that I don't trust Joe's judgement on big moves for the reasons I've listed on each of the previous pages in this thread

Could you name those guys you are talking about and the assests that you think it would have cost us to acquire them? Please don't say ROR and Skinner...they were never coming here. Same with Tavares, Perron and Van Riemsdyk. The last three and Skinner had specific places they wanted to go to and they did.