Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XXVII|Crosby+MacK = Tim's Empire

[AvsCOL]

I know people will scoff at this, but why not make a play for Mike Hoffman from Florida? Have to think he'd come pretty cheap considering their need for cap space (Panarin/Bob) He's a legit 2nd line guy signed through 2019-2020. If you could complete a sign-and-trade with Florida for a good price I think it makes sense. 36 goals this past season.

 

[Gabe the Babe]

I know people will scoff at this, but why not make a play for Mike Hoffman from Florida? Have to think he'd come pretty cheap considering their need for cap space (Panarin/Bob) He's a legit 2nd line guy signed through 2019-2020. If you could complete a sign-and-trade with Florida for a good price I think it makes sense. 36 goals this past season.

Not that he’s a bad player. But I want nothing to do with Hoffman. Anybody that closely associated with a person who’d laugh about a stillborn child, shows that person makes poor life decisions imo. Dude and his fiancé can kick rocks.

 

[MarkT]

He's a paper tiger. Looks good statistically but can't hold up when the going gets tough. Not at all what this team needs, we already have a similar player in Kerfoot (in terms of usage).

If we're trading for someone, I'm interested in trying to pry Trochek out of Florida. I just can't see them competing or wanting to pay him long term if they add Panarin and Bob.

Fair enough. I'd prefer Trochek as well. I just listed players I thought might be available. If Florida gets Panarin and Bob, surely they'll still need a 2nd line center? I'd think they'd try to move Hoffman rather than Trochek. Plus they already have a top right hand defenseman and 4 other righties under contract. Not sure there's a big need for Barrie there, which was another thing I was considering when I suggested players from Edmonton, Toronto and Tampa.

Why stop there? Think of the picks we could get for MacK or Makar!

I know you're being sarcastic, but I'm getting kind of sick of people making fun of anyone who suggests Barrie should be traded as if it's the worst idea in the world. There are plenty of reasons to trade him just as there are plenty of reasons to keep him. Mockery doesn't help anything here.

 

[CREW99AW]

I know people will scoff at this, but why not make a play for Mike Hoffman from Florida? Have to think he'd come pretty cheap considering their need for cap space (Panarin/Bob) He's a legit 2nd line guy signed through 2019-2020. If you could complete a sign-and-trade with Florida for a good price I think it makes sense. 36 goals this past season.

At this season's TDL, Isles offered Beau+1st for Hoffman. Fl would not budge off their demand of Sorokin +1st.

There are several quality forwards hitting the ufa market in July. It would be funny of Fl tried to move Hoffman (to clear up cap space for Bob & Bread), only to find worse offers then Beau+1st

 

[Hornstar]

Not that he’s a bad player. But I want nothing to do with Hoffman. Anybody that closely associated with a person who’d laugh about a stillborn child, shows that person makes poor life decisions imo. Dude and his fiancé can kick rocks.

There's always two sides to the story. Media spews so much garbage it's hard to tell anything factual.

 

[Gatorbait19]

I know people will scoff at this, but why not make a play for Mike Hoffman from Florida? Have to think he'd come pretty cheap considering their need for cap space (Panarin/Bob) He's a legit 2nd line guy signed through 2019-2020. If you could complete a sign-and-trade with Florida for a good price I think it makes sense. 36 goals this past season.

I live in South Florida so I see the panthers a lot. I would love to have Trocheck, but believe it would ultimately cost us No. 4 overall, which I am very hesitant to trade. A lot of panthers fans have been down on Trocheck though (not sure management feels that way), believing he’s not great at getting others involved (which I guess is actually ok for our second line) and he had a down year with injury. But, if you look at the panthers’ record while he was out, as well as Barkov’s point totals with and without (Tro coming back took a lot of pressure off Barkov), he took off when Tro returned to lineup.

From all accounts Hoffman has been a model citizen here and should be available to make room for Panarin, but of course panthers need defense. I definitely think a 3 team trade could work whereby we give up our first + prospect and panthers get a 2nd pairing defensemen. At this point my concern with Hoffman isn’t the Ottawa issue, but instead re-signing him and the price tag that will come with it. If you could get him around $7m for 5 years then I would be very interested.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Fair enough. I'd prefer Trochek as well. I just listed players I thought might be available. If Florida gets Panarin and Bob, surely they'll still need a 2nd line center? I'd think they'd try to move Hoffman rather than Trochek. Plus they already have a top right hand defenseman and 4 other righties under contract. Not sure there's a big need for Barrie there, which was another thing I was considering when I suggested players from Edmonton, Toronto and Tampa.



I know you're being sarcastic, but I'm getting kind of sick of people making fun of anyone who suggests Barrie should’ve an ideal player to target if available. be traded as if it's the worst idea in the world. There are plenty of reasons to trade him just as there are plenty of reasons to keep him. Mockery doesn't help anything here.

I like the first half of your post and think Trocheck is an ideal target to go after if he’s able to shakes loose.

So you’re sick of people having the opinion that trading Barrie for futures/draft picks and/or players is the worst idea in the world?

Why? What’s the problem if someone actually believes that? What if they believe he’s the most positive impactful dman the team has? What if they don’t believe a futures trade makes the team significantly worse? What if they don’t trust in EJ’s aging until the expansion draft and may not want to re-sign him at 35+?

Maybe you shouldn’t get so sick with people having their own opinion when it’s impossible for you to prove them wrong.

 

[RockLobster]

* Jost to develop into that 2C next season, Bank it. These playoffs will give him all sorts of confidence.
* Pavel Francouz waves hello and says, I'm justing finishing the P/O's with The Eagles, and I'll be right there

We have Kaut, Bowers, Kamenev all about ready to come it at some time next season. Potentially a 4th overall forward within 18 months.
With the huge contracts this club is about to hand out, we still have to be cap wise.

Jost had all f***ing year to show that he could develop into a 2C, and he really hasn't come close to fulfilling that role. Carl Soderberg, who many would agree tops out as a low-end 2C, outperformed him (and Compher/Kerfoot) once put into that role. And I think we all like Big 'Ol Carl, but he's getting up there in age and as pointed out--when he's at his absolute best, he's a low-end 2C/great 3C.

Counting on Kaut, Bowers, and Kamenev to play any sort of meaningful minutes for the Avalanche next season is an exact repeat of this season of counting on Jost, Kerfoot, and Compher to fill that 2C role. If it doesn't work (and it's a gamble that is inherently is more likely to not work), then once again we have the exact same hole(s) on the team.

f***. That.

Joe better be god damn aggressive this offseason in finally addressing the shortcomings this roster has, or he better move the f*** out of the way for someone who will.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I know some of us want Joe to be really aggressive this offseason.

But if he can get me 1 good to very good 1st or second liner for this team, I’ll be happy. It instantly creates better depth across all lines.

Add a better replacement for Wilson and I’ll be happy with the offseason.

Keep the D as is as I think it’s becoming a huge strength for this team.

 

[RockLobster]

I know some of us want Joe to be really aggressive this offseason.

But if he can get me 1 good to very good 1st or second liner for this team, I’ll be happy. It instantly creates better depth across all lines.

Add a better replacement for Wilson and I’ll be happy with the offseason.

Keep the D as is as I think it’s becoming a huge strength for this team.

I mean, getting 1 good-to-very good 2nd liner would be the definition of "Joe being aggressive", at least to me.

 

[cgf]

Fair enough. I'd prefer Trochek as well. I just listed players I thought might be available. If Florida gets Panarin and Bob, surely they'll still need a 2nd line center? I'd think they'd try to move Hoffman rather than Trochek. Plus they already have a top right hand defenseman and 4 other righties under contract. Not sure there's a big need for Barrie there, which was another thing I was considering when I suggested players from Edmonton, Toronto and Tampa.



I know you're being sarcastic, but I'm getting kind of sick of people making fun of anyone who suggests Barrie should be traded as if it's the worst idea in the world. There are plenty of reasons to trade him just as there are plenty of reasons to keep him. Mockery doesn't help anything here.

Well that's just not true. Without pithiness, we would go insane from all of the people regurgitating the same illogical arguments for trading our best blueliner the instant our blueline ceased being a weakness & we exited our rebuild.

Or is it only my opinions that folks are allowed to be snarkily dismissive of?

 

[EdAVSfan]

I mean, getting 1 good-to-very good 2nd liner would be the definition of "Joe being aggressive", at least to me.

Yeah for me too. Aggressive is relative to each person.

I’ve seen several suggestions of how Joe needs to go and get an entire 2nd line.

So I guess it’s simply where we stand on the term aggressive? Some people are more “ultimate warrior” aggressive vs “Hulk hogan pre-NWO” aggressive

 

[MarkT]

I like the first half of your post and think Trocheck is an ideal target to go after if he’s able to shakes loose.

So you’re sick of people having the opinion that trading Barrie for futures/draft picks and/or players is the worst idea in the world?

Why? What’s the problem if someone actually believes that? What if they believe he’s the most positive impactful dman the team has? What if they don’t believe a futures trade makes the team significantly worse? What if they don’t trust in EJ’s aging until the expansion draft and may not want to re-sign him at 35+?

Maybe you shouldn’t get so sick with people having their own opinion when it’s impossible for you to prove them wrong.

I'm not sick of people thinking that Barrie shouldn't be traded. As I said, there are plenty of strong reasons to think he should be re-signed. I actually think he should be re-signed if he's willing to sign a reasonable deal. Also, I think this is EJ's final contract in the NHL, let alone with the Avs, and who we lose to the expansion draft is not the thing we should be worried about when it comes to deciding if we re-sign Barrie.

What I'm sick of is people being dismissive of, laughing at, or misrepresenting people who do want Barrie to be traded because there are plenty of legit reasons to want that. All I'm asking is that the two sides of this debate respect one another and have healthy conversations about it rather than mock each other and talk past each other. I know that's a lot to ask on an internet forum, but it's worth a try.

 

[cgf]

I think 1 quality top 6er is the bare minimum that Joe needs to bring in this offseason...and even that would only be sufficient if it's a legit 1st liner that can anchor the 2nd line like Drae, Trochek, Larkin, etc. If we're talking 2nd liners like Hayes, Zucker, Ferland, etc. then it has to be 2.

 

[RockLobster]

Yeah for me too. Aggressive is relative to each person.

I’ve seen several suggestions of how Joe needs to go and get an entire 2nd line.

So I guess it’s simply where we stand on the term aggressive? Some people are more “ultimate warrior” aggressive vs “Hulk hogan pre-NWO” aggressive

I mean if he wants to add Hayes & Ferland, then I'm pumped for that. I think Hayes, despite his shortcomings, should be the primary target due to his ability to actually be a 2C. Let's say the Avs draft Cozens or Turcotte at 4, by the time they should be ready for a 2C role, Hayes would likely be near the end of his contract anyway, and cloud slot down, or shift over to wing, or whatever. I mean in the grand scheme of things, if the Avs drafted Turcotte or Cozens with the idea that they would be the long-term 2C, we have no idea what the Avs' roster will look like when they're actually ready for that role.

Joe's patient approach ultimately favored him w/ the Duchene trade (despite my belief that it was more Dorion going "Full Dorion" that helped him rather than being patient), but one surefire way to piss away any sort of contention window is doing what he's continued to do--not address the second line. The Avs have the cap space to keep their core guys AND add some upgrades to that area, so it's time to do it.

 

[cgf]

I'm not sick of people thinking that Barrie shouldn't be traded. As I said, there are plenty of strong reasons to think he should be re-signed. I actually think he should be re-signed if he's willing to sign a reasonable deal. Also, I think this is EJ's final contract in the NHL, let alone with the Avs, and who we lose to the expansion draft is not the thing we should be worried about when it comes to deciding if we re-sign Barrie.

What I'm sick of is people being dismissive of, laughing at, or misrepresenting people who do want Barrie to be traded because there are plenty of legit reasons to want that. All I'm asking is that the two sides of this debate respect one another and have healthy conversations about it rather than mock each other and talk past each other. I know that's a lot to ask on an internet forum, but it's worth a try.

We've already debated it ad nausiem so what's the point of doing anything, there's nothing more either side has to contribute to this discussion that hasn't been beaten to death already. We know where the other side stands on this one.

It would be no less disrespectful if I just responded with a link to the previous trade threads

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I mean... we're in the 2nd round of the playoffs. Teams this far into the playoffs generally dont have major holes that need to be filled.


I think this is a case of people seeing something to be a lot worse than it actually is. I dont think Sakic necessarily has to be super aggressive this summer. One move for a Top 6 forward is all we truly need. After that, it'd be nice to make another move for help but I really dont think it would be completely necessary.


Just getting a Hayes or a Skinner player should put this team over the edge and into that outside cup contender group next season. Quite frankly doing nothing at all we're probably still in that group.


If we were to get say 2 legit Top 6 forwards, I think we'd have to be looked at as a strong favorite in the West next season.

 

[MarkT]

Well that's just not true. Without pithiness, we would go insane from all of the people regurgitating the same illogical arguments for trading our best blueliner the instant our blueline ceased being a weakness & we exited our rebuild.

Or is it only my opinions that folks are allowed to be snarkily dismissive of?

No one should be snarkily dismissive of anyone's opinions. And if you think all the arguments are illogical and Barrie is our best blueliner, then just ignore all those people making those arguments. If these arguments are truly wrong, then surely it's possible to prove it beyond any reasonable doubt and convince the vast majority of people that you're right, then just quote your key arguments any time you feel the need to prove it again.

We've already debated it ad nausiem so what's the point of doing anything, there's nothing more either side has to contribute to this discussion that hasn't been beaten to death already. We know where the other side stands on this one.

It would be no less disrespectful if I just responded with a link to the previous trade threads

Actually no, linking people to posts that prove their argument wrong can be done quite respectfully. Linking them to an entire thread is indeed dismissive, especially if it's a long one.

And I think you need to remember that not all of us have been here for years and had this debate for years like you have. For many of us, we've probably never heard some of the best arguments for and against trading Barrie.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I'm not sick of people thinking that Barrie shouldn't be traded. As I said, there are plenty of strong reasons to think he should be re-signed. I actually think he should be re-signed if he's willing to sign a reasonable deal. Also, I think this is EJ's final contract in the NHL, let alone with the Avs, and who we lose to the expansion draft is not the thing we should be worried about when it comes to deciding if we re-sign Barrie.

What I'm sick of is people being dismissive of, laughing at, or misrepresenting people who do want Barrie to be traded because there are plenty of legit reasons to want that. All I'm asking is that the two sides of this debate respect one another and have healthy conversations about it rather than mock each other and talk past each other. I know that's a lot to ask on an internet forum, but it's worth a try.

I don’t disagree.

I think frustrations set when opinions are mis-represented, and/or when the same ideas are brought up.

Certain discussions have been had and re-had over and over again. So when people bring up the same discussion for a 5th or 6th time, it’s irritating to have to re-hash all the same arguments over and over again, for people on both sides of the argument.

Pretty sure people will be far more receptive to fresh or new ideas rather than recycled ones.

Like, do we really need to re-have the discussion about RNH for Barrie again? Or any of the other multitude of discussions that have been had already? Every possible argument from either side has been made.

 

[OwenNolan]

Jost had all ****ing year to show that he could develop into a 2C, and he really hasn't come close to fulfilling that role. Carl Soderberg, who many would agree tops out as a low-end 2C, outperformed him (and Compher/Kerfoot) once put into that role. And I think we all like Big 'Ol Carl, but he's getting up there in age and as pointed out--when he's at his absolute best, he's a low-end 2C/great 3C.

Counting on Kaut, Bowers, and Kamenev to play any sort of meaningful minutes for the Avalanche next season is an exact repeat of this season of counting on Jost, Kerfoot, and Compher to fill that 2C role. If it doesn't work (and it's a gamble that is inherently is more likely to not work), then once again we have the exact same hole(s) on the team.

****. That.

Joe better be god damn aggressive this offseason in finally addressing the shortcomings this roster has, or he better move the **** out of the way for someone who will.

Joe needs to be aggressively prudent. Free agent signings rarely work out. Take Tavares for example. 11 million and another 1st round exit.

I seriously doubt Joe will add a big name free agent. We will be having alot of players due for big raises very shortly here. I'd rather pay our players who have worked their butts off for this franchise and improved every year than some outside free agent. A mid tier guy like Ryan Dzingel would be perfect.

4th OA. I like the idea of Alex Turcotte. Dude can fly and is a nice 2 way center. I think he can play this year.

-Sign Rantanen for as long as we can
-Sign Dzingel *5yrs, 25M
-Re-sign Colin Wilson to a modest deal
-Try to extend Barrie this summer
-Try to extend Zadorov
-Sign Compher and Kerfoot to 2 year deals

Landeskog- MacKinnon- Kerfoot
Dzingel- Turcotte- Rantanen
Wilson- Soda- Compher
Nieto- Jost- Calvert

That is a nice, deep and more importantly fast team. That's a 2nd ljne that can also do alot of damage and is responsibly defensively. And we have nice energy and depth on the bottom.6..

 

[MarkT]

I don’t disagree.

I think frustrations set when opinions are mis-represented, and/or when the same ideas are brought up.

Certain discussions have been had and re-had over and over again. So when people bring up the same discussion for a 5th or 6th time, it’s irritating to have to re-hash all the same arguments over and over again, for people on both sides of the argument.

Pretty sure people will be far more receptive to fresh or new ideas rather than recycled ones.

Like, do we really need to re-have the discussion about RNH for Barrie again? Or any of the other multitude of discussions that have been had already? Every possible argument from either side has been made.

Anyone who is sick of the discussion is free to leave it to those of us who still enjoy it. Maybe when I've been a member here for a decade I'll be sick of the some of the arguments too, but hopefully I'll not end up dismissive or disrespectful.

 

[Patagonia]

I mean if he wants to add Hayes & Ferland, then I'm pumped for that. I think Hayes, despite his shortcomings, should be the primary target due to his ability to actually be a 2C. Let's say the Avs draft Cozens or Turcotte at 4, by the time they should be ready for a 2C role, Hayes would likely be near the end of his contract anyway, and cloud slot down, or shift over to wing, or whatever. I mean in the grand scheme of things, if the Avs drafted Turcotte or Cozens with the idea that they would be the long-term 2C, we have no idea what the Avs' roster will look like when they're actually ready for that role.

Joe's patient approach ultimately favored him w/ the Duchene trade (despite my belief that it was more Dorion going "Full Dorion" that helped him rather than being patient), but one surefire way to piss away any sort of contention window is doing what he's continued to do--not address the second line. The Avs have the cap space to keep their core guys AND add some upgrades to that area, so it's time to do it.

Signing a higher end UFA ie Hayes would require at least 5 years. So you're expecting to overpay for the initial productive 2-3 years and waste the last couple of seasons for Cozens/Turcotte?

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but AVs are entering a phase of contention and still need to be careful in offering long-term expensive deals.

 

[cgf]

No one should be snarkily dismissive of anyone's opinions. And if you think all the arguments are illogical and Barrie is our best blueliner, then just ignore all those people making those arguments. If these arguments are truly wrong, then surely it's possible to prove it beyond any reasonable doubt and convince the vast majority of people that you're right, then just quote your key arguments any time you feel the need to prove it again.

You'd think so, but arguments rarely change deeply held beliefs...and puck-moving blueliners are an article of faith for too many hockey fans.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Just lol at Turcotte being 2C on a playoff team in 2019/20.

 

[EdAVSfan]

I mean if he wants to add Hayes & Ferland, then I'm pumped for that. I think Hayes, despite his shortcomings, should be the primary target due to his ability to actually be a 2C. Let's say the Avs draft Cozens or Turcotte at 4, by the time they should be ready for a 2C role, Hayes would likely be near the end of his contract anyway, and cloud slot down, or shift over to wing, or whatever. I mean in the grand scheme of things, if the Avs drafted Turcotte or Cozens with the idea that they would be the long-term 2C, we have no idea what the Avs' roster will look like when they're actually ready for that role.

Joe's patient approach ultimately favored him w/ the Duchene trade (despite my belief that it was more Dorion going "Full Dorion" that helped him rather than being patient), but one surefire way to piss away any sort of contention window is doing what he's continued to do--not address the second line. The Avs have the cap space to keep their core guys AND add some upgrades to that area, so it's time to do it.

No question, the 2nd line needs to be addressed or rather re-inforced.

Ideally a 2C is the acquisition as we both believe that will have the greatest impact to the team.

For sure, depending on which player he brings in, will decide how else he should proceed.

All I was mentioning was that some people want A LOT of moves and some are satisfied with less. No harm no foul in each position.

I think we all can agree that Joe needs to do SOMETHING to help that 2nd line.

We’re both in agreement that the Avs window is now and until MacKs contract is up. Not that they can’t compete after that, but ultimately, the strongest opportunity and window is now with Makar, Landeskog and Makar on their contracts and ages. And hopefully with that 4th overall being able to contribute in a bigger way toward the end of the window.