Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XVI| Why No Trades!?

[Meeqs]

And by 2nd line Center, are we pretty much exclusively talking about Hayes?

I mean the real answer is we will have to wait and see what happens at the draft as it is STACKED with high end centers this year, some of them maybe ready to take the jump right away. However that isn't that fun of an answer yet and I don't think too many people on the board go HAM on prospects.

If we do get a C, it depends on how ready they are, so maybe a 2-3 year deal for a 2/3c would work. If we don't get a top 6 C with either pick then you have to start talking about a long term 2c, which I think is more likely to be found in a trade but a guy like Hayes could be serviceable if you were planning on having really stacked positions elsewhere.

 

[Foppa2118]

Varly gave up 3 goals on 15 shots last game and was to blame on at least one of them. Something something rose colored glasses.

The only goal people are pointing to as a possible bad goal, is the wrap around that bounced off his skate. That's not a bad goal. I don't care how many shots there were if there weren't any bad goals. There are other reasons for goals aside from the goaltender.




These four goals in each of his last three games were worse than any of the goals Varly gave up in the last two games. So what does it say about your glasses that you think Grubuaer has continued to outplay him?







Panik opens the scoring

Stastny cleans up in front

Like I said, Varly played poorly for a few games in a row. Grubuaer came in and outplayed him for one game, but then had three poor games in a row himself. After which Varly outplayed him for two games.

If Varly wasn't injured, I'm pretty sure Bednar would have kept giving him starts until he stumbled because he had been better than Grubuaer.

This recent injury might be enough for Sakic to part ways with Varly in the off season but I don't see him trading him at the deadline, I think he'll keep him for insurance.

 

[Pokecheque]

Varly has not looked at all like himself for a while now. Even when he was making the big saves in the last couple games his usually-decent rebound control was nowhere to be found and he was fighting the puck on a few occasions. Hopefully whatever it was, was the result of the injury and he comes back 100%.

 

[Foppa2118]

Varly has not looked at all like himself for a while now. Even when he was making the big saves in the last couple games his usually-decent rebound control was nowhere to be found and he was fighting the puck on a few occasions. Hopefully whatever it was, was the result of the injury and he comes back 100%.

Since coming back, I think his rebound control has been fine outside the first period of his first game back. Last game especially he smothered multiple shots with no rebound.

Also, I know you weren't discussing Grubuaer but the Fischer and Stastny goals given up by him above were due to poor rebound control.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I mean the real answer is we will have to wait and see what happens at the draft as it is STACKED with high end centers this year, some of them maybe ready to take the jump right away. However that isn't that fun of an answer yet and I don't think too many people on the board go HAM on prospects.

If we do get a C, it depends on how ready they are, so maybe a 2-3 year deal for a 2/3c would work. If we don't get a top 6 C with either pick then you have to start talking about a long term 2c, which I think is more likely to be found in a trade but a guy like Hayes could be serviceable if you were planning on having really stacked positions elsewhere.

This draft has a lot of C’s but not a lot that will be ready next season. Hughes and Kakko will be ready to go next year but after that it’s seems pretty up in the air about which players will be nhl ready.

 

[Avs_19]

Varly has been inconsistent to start the season (again) and is now injured (again). We may not know if Grubauer is the answer but I have a pretty good idea who isn't the answer going forward.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yeah Varly is not the answer. Really hope we deal him and let Grubs/Frankie run with it. More reliable duo going forward.

 

[henchman21]

Varly has been inconsistent to start the season (again) and is now injured (again). We may not know if Grubauer is the answer but I have a pretty good idea who isn't the answer going forward.

This is really how I feel. We don't know on Grubs, but now is really the time to find out. Let him have the role for the next month/month and a half to see where he is. If he succeeds, fantastic! If he fails, start shopping.

 

[JLo217]

This is really how I feel. We don't know on Grubs, but now is really the time to find out. Let him have the role for the next month/month and a half to see where he is. If he succeeds, fantastic! If he fails, start shopping.

I'd be equally as curious to see what Francouz can do.

Either way I think it's time to move on from Varly. He has had what... one full amazing season?

I think Varly, Barrie and Jost should all be considered to be moved if they can improve the roster.

 

[Pokecheque]

Yeah, some have said Varly is the best starter since Patrick Roy, but I don't think that's saying much at all. I suppose it was a worthy gamble but in the end, he's not durable enough and not good enough to warrant further investment.

 

[Foppa2118]

Yeah, some have said Varly is the best starter since Patrick Roy, but I don't think that's saying much at all. I suppose it was a worthy gamble but in the end, he's not durable enough and not good enough to warrant further investment.

Depends on the alternatives doesn't it? So far Grubauer has been just as, if not more inconsistent in less games. I'd like to see more from Francouz, but he also let in that one softy.

Varly might have needed to go through the season injury free to be re-signed, but unless they prove themselves in the second half of the season, I'm way more worried about a Grubauer-Francouz pairing long term than I am a Varly-Grubauer/Francouz duo.

 

[Pokecheque]

Depends on the alternatives doesn't it? So far Grubauer has been just as, if not more inconsistent in less games. I'd like to see more from Francouz, but he also let in that one softy.

Varly might have needed to go through the season injury free to be re-signed, but unless they prove themselves in the second half of the season, I'm way more worried about a Grubauer-Francouz pairing long term than I am a Varly-Grubauer/Francouz duo.

I knew you would be the first to reply to this.

I'm not gonna sit here and say Grubs/Frankie are a better, or even safer bet than Varlamov. But they have a choice to either gamble on those guys and see what they have, or sign Varly long-term. The latter is simply not an option. I wish they had done a far better job developing goalies in the intervening years than they have, but alas, they didn't (yet another black mark on the record of former goalie Craig Billington) so we're left with this.

It doesn't depend on the alternatives. They have to move on. They, and we all have to hope that the alternatives they presently have, as well as the kids they have in the pipeline going forward, will be the answer. It could very well blow up in their faces as bad as it has with Philadelphia and Carolina, but they simply cannot continue with the status quo.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Depends on the alternatives doesn't it? So far Grubauer has been just as, if not more inconsistent in less games. I'd like to see more from Francouz, but he also let in that one softy.

Varly might have needed to go through the season injury free to be re-signed, but unless they prove themselves in the second half of the season, I'm way more worried about a Grubauer-Francouz pairing long term than I am a Varly-Grubauer/Francouz duo.

One thing to think about is that its actually quite common for goalies to have a rough go after that surgery. Luongo talked about it in reference to himself and Schneider. Thomas, Lou, and Rinne all were very good after fully recovering. Not all on the same timeline though because I think Thomas was much quicker. Obviously there is differences with each guy. Luongo said something about not feeling right and even dealing with pain while playing for a year after or something.

If Grubs does not grab the starting job either it might be worth giving Varly a one year deal if hes willing to take it. The market for goalies is a bit crazy right now though.

 

[Foppa2118]

I knew you would be the first to reply to this.

I'm not gonna sit here and say Grubs/Frankie are a better, or even safer bet than Varlamov. But they have a choice to either gamble on those guys and see what they have, or sign Varly long-term. The latter is simply not an option. I wish they had done a far better job developing goalies in the intervening years than they have, but alas, they didn't (yet another black mark on the record of former goalie Craig Billington) so we're left with this.

It doesn't depend on the alternatives. They have to move on. They, and we all have to hope that the alternatives they presently have, as well as the kids they have in the pipeline going forward, will be the answer. It could very well blow up in their faces as bad as it has with Philadelphia and Carolina, but they simply cannot continue with the status quo.

I figured you were referring to me with the best goalie since Roy comment.

It may not be saying much but it shows how dangerous a grass in greener mentality can be. They've tried 19 goalies since Roy retired. Anderson and maybe Theo are the only ones that held down a starters role for one season. Varly is the only one that's been capable of being a starter for more than one season.

It should absolutely depend on the alternatives. If they go with two goaltenders that haven't proven capable of being a starter, that could easily blow up in their face. Just like it has for other teams.

If they can't find a proven starter, any concern over Varly's injury history can be reduced by keeping Varly, Grubauer and either Francouz or another solid #3. Just like this year. I'm not sure why people would feel less comfortable with that, than going with two unproven guys as the Avs cup window opens. That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'll be honest, I don't see Grubauer as much more than a Halak-type goalie. I think he can get the job done as a 1a/1b-type guy, but his athleticism and mechanics leave a bit to be desired. @Waingro mentioned how Grubs gives up bad rebounds and there's no arguing that. I don't think he's a long-term solution by any means but given what was available I think he was an absolutely solid pickup.

I think the key right now is Francouz. If he ends up failing miserably the Avs are in very serious trouble. And even THEN I don't think he's a long-term guy. But if they can put something together that allows them to be a contender as the expected window of contention opens, we should be happy with the results.

 

[Foppa2118]

I'll be honest, I don't see Grubauer as much more than a Halak-type goalie. I think he can get the job done as a 1a/1b-type guy, but his athleticism and mechanics leave a bit to be desired. @Waingro mentioned how Grubs gives up bad rebounds and there's no arguing that. I don't think he's a long-term solution by any means but given what was available I think he was an absolutely solid pickup.

I think the key right now is Francouz. If he ends up failing miserably the Avs are in very serious trouble. And even THEN I don't think he's a long-term guy. But if they can put something together that allows them to be a contender as the expected window of contention opens, we should be happy with the results.

I would agree with that. That's why I wish they'd give Francouz some games instead of Grubauer. They've seen almost nothing from him in the NHL, and if Varly comes back after a game or two, they might not have another chance to see him. Hard to tell.

Hopefully they give Francouz the NYR game.

 

[the_fan]

Doubt Col is about to spend 20m AAV long term on 2 30 year olds with where they are currently at imo. In a few years when they are a real contender and the core is locked up I could see them going to UFA to fix some final holes with vets but its too early for that atm.

You're probably right, I'm just dreaming of a 2nd line that can dominate games and take pressure off the top line. It's a dream now but totally possible to fix in the near future

 

[the_fan]

From my understanding, it’s a pretty safe bet they won’t end up on the same team next year.

Yeah, it is pretty unlikely

 

[Pokecheque]

I figured you were referring to me with the best goalie since Roy comment.

It may not be saying much but it shows how dangerous a grass in greener mentality can be. They've tried 19 goalies since Roy retired. Anderson and maybe Theo are the only ones that held down a starters role for one season. Varly is the only one that's been capable of being a starter for more than one season.

It should absolutely depend on the alternatives. If they go with two goaltenders that haven't proven capable of being a starter, that could easily blow up in their face. Just like it has for other teams.

If they can't find a proven starter, any concern over Varly's injury history can be reduced by keeping Varly, Grubauer and either Francouz or another solid #3. Just like this year. I'm not sure why people would feel less comfortable with that, than going with two unproven guys as the Avs cup window opens. That doesn't make any sense to me.

You were one of them, but not the only one. Not my intention to single you out here.

"Proven starter" is kind of a tough one. Obviously the teams that have them don't want to give them up, and if they do it'd take something pretty hefty to get them. Then there's the fact that goaltending is so fickle from year to year. Even Carey Price can't stay consistent as health issues and age set in. The Flyers went for one of the biggest young goaltenders at the time when they traded for and then locked him down long-term, and we know how that panned out. There are absolutely NO surefire bets out there like Roy, or Hasek. As I've said many times, goaltending overall is not nearly on the same level as it was in the 90s/early-00s. There just isn't a McDavid/Crosby generational talent out there right now, when in the previous era, there were THREE all playing around the same time. And the guys on the next tier down like Belfour, Joseph, etc. were still astounding in their own right. There is simply no one out there the Avs can get who will 100% solve the issue between the pipes.

And I don't think the solution to mitigate Varly's constant injuries is to just pile up the depth chart with insurance options. You're not keeping Frankie as a #3, and you're not going to keep anyone who's worthy of multiple starts in the NHL as a #3, and your options for a viable #2 are limited.

He's either your guy, or he isn't.

 

[CobraAcesS]

You were one of them, but not the only one. Not my intention to single you out here.

"Proven starter" is kind of a tough one. Obviously the teams that have them don't want to give them up, and if they do it'd take something pretty hefty to get them. Then there's the fact that goaltending is so fickle from year to year. Even Carey Price can't stay consistent as health issues and age set in. The Flyers went for one of the biggest young goaltenders at the time when they traded for and then locked him down long-term, and we know how that panned out. There are absolutely NO surefire bets out there like Roy, or Hasek. As I've said many times, goaltending overall is not nearly on the same level as it was in the 90s/early-00s. There just isn't a McDavid/Crosby generational talent out there right now, when in the previous era, there were THREE all playing around the same time. And the guys on the next tier down like Belfour, Joseph, etc. were still astounding in their own right. There is simply no one out there the Avs can get who will 100% solve the issue between the pipes.

And I don't think the solution to mitigate Varly's constant injuries is to just pile up the depth chart with insurance options. You're not keeping Frankie as a #3, and you're not going to keep anyone who's worthy of multiple starts in the NHL as a #3, and your options for a viable #2 are limited.

He's either your guy, or he isn't.

Varly and Grubs are really making it a difficult choice moving forward, and the Avs are trying to win so it is also difficult to blame them for not going with more proven options.

I really hope this isn't quite as unclear of a choice going into the off-season. We have enough shit to worry about lol.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I don't think Varly is the guy who is going to lead us to the cup, so might as well start searching for one.

While Varly is proven starter he still has his issues, health, inconsistency and performing when it matters.

 

[Foppa2118]

You were one of them, but not the only one. Not my intention to single you out here.

"Proven starter" is kind of a tough one. Obviously the teams that have them don't want to give them up, and if they do it'd take something pretty hefty to get them. Then there's the fact that goaltending is so fickle from year to year. Even Carey Price can't stay consistent as health issues and age set in. The Flyers went for one of the biggest young goaltenders at the time when they traded for and then locked him down long-term, and we know how that panned out. There are absolutely NO surefire bets out there like Roy, or Hasek. As I've said many times, goaltending overall is not nearly on the same level as it was in the 90s/early-00s. There just isn't a McDavid/Crosby generational talent out there right now, when in the previous era, there were THREE all playing around the same time. And the guys on the next tier down like Belfour, Joseph, etc. were still astounding in their own right. There is simply no one out there the Avs can get who will 100% solve the issue between the pipes.

And I don't think the solution to mitigate Varly's constant injuries is to just pile up the depth chart with insurance options. You're not keeping Frankie as a #3, and you're not going to keep anyone who's worthy of multiple starts in the NHL as a #3, and your options for a viable #2 are limited.

He's either your guy, or he isn't.

I'd agree with most of that. I think they can find a decent #3 though if they do their due diligence. They'll still be a good destination because of the uncertainty in net too.

It doesn't have to come from NA either. That's how they ended up with Francouz. They spent a lot of time looking for a good goalie in Europe and were aggressive in pursuing him. They weren't really looking for a good #3 like that until they lost both Varly and Bernier last season. They had been trying to give starts to their own prospects in the AHL, which never seem to pan out.

 

[S E P H]

How busy Sakic will be entirely depends on how far he thinks our team is along. We saw years ago when he traded for rentals like Matthias and Boedker that he isn't afraid of pulling the trigger, but perhaps he see's our team more on the patient side leading to them staying pat a lot more than going out trying to grab Hayes-like players at all cost closer we get to the TDL.

Calling Garrison and Caggiula assets is being very generous to them.

Caggiula is the di Giuseppe of the western conference. Okay player with a lot of limitations, but is quite coachable. I kind of like him, but will fully acknowledge that he is a passable player on bad teams.

Getting Pietrangelo would be a huge addition to our team, but sadly I just can't see it happening for a number of reasons:

• division rivals, which would drive up the price
• Blues aren't rebuilding, they'll want pieces that can help right away, we don't have that
• the young pieces we might be willing to give up don't carry that much value around the league
• Pietrangelo is signed for one more year, giving up a bounty for him and then potentially not being able to extend him would be a huge blow for the future of this team

On another note concerning Stone, I see no one really mentions how does the potential aftermath of us getting him and signing him for market value does to Mikko's contract demands.

Not disagreeing, but if there is one divisional rival I would bet money we trade with is the Blues. Not sure it will be for Pietrangelo though, they have a lot of other players I am very interested in.

 

[CobraAcesS]

How busy Sakic will be entirely depends on how far he thinks our team is along. We saw years ago when he traded for rentals like Matthias and Boedker that he isn't afraid of pulling the trigger, but perhaps he see's our team more on the patient side leading to them staying pat a lot more than going out trying to grab Hayes-like players at all cost closer we get to the TDL.


Caggiula is the di Giuseppe of the western conference. Okay player with a lot of limitations, but is quite coachable. I kind of like him, but will fully acknowledge that he is a passable player on bad teams.


Not disagreeing, but if there is one divisional rival I would bet money we trade with is the Blues. Not sure it will be for Pietrangelo though, they have a lot of other players I am very interested in.

On STL? Like who lol?

 

[S E P H]

On STL? Like who lol?

Probably ones that aren't available; Pietrangelo (of course), Dunn (absolutely yes to him), Edmundson, Parayko (would cost too much than what I would want to give up), Schmaltz, Barbashev, Schwartz, Sundqvist, Bokk, and Tarasenko. Also I would take Schenn, but not because he's amazing, but because I am desperate, lol. There are quite a bit of pieces I like from the Blues, they on paper don't look bad at all. Only three players I can't see them trading are O'Reilly, Thomas, and Kyrou.