Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XVI| Why No Trades!?

Discussion in 'Colorado Avalanche' started by SoundwaveIsCharisma, Dec 17, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SoundwaveIsCharisma

    SoundwaveIsCharisma Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    34,095
    Likes Received:
    6,069
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Location:
    Screw You Blaster
    Home Page:
    Continue here. Also, acquire all the C's.
     
  2. Foppberg

    Foppberg Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Messages:
    17,289
    Likes Received:
    14,902
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Top 3 pick would be a home run, but we're approaching the half way mark and the Sens aren't quite the complete bottom feeder we thought they'd be. Best shot at getting a top pick like that is if we win the lottery.
     
  3. Avs_19

    Avs_19 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Messages:
    71,154
    Likes Received:
    9,576
    Trophy Points:
    187


    Imagine Stone on this team right now for the Avs picks that are currently in the bottom 10 of the rounds. This would've been a perfect time for an offer sheet for many teams and especially for the Avs.
     
  4. Bill Peckerskull

    Bill Peckerskull Farging Ice Holes

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    9,482
    Likes Received:
    1,618
    Trophy Points:
    184
    Occupation:
    Professional Farter
    Location:
    Castle Rock, CO
    Lots of time left. I don't think they catch LA or Chicago, but they could still easily be bottom 3.
     
    exsailor66 likes this.
  5. Meeqs

    Meeqs Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,533
    Likes Received:
    1,389
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Location:
    USA
    This is very much the situation and the entire top half of the draft has high end centers. Cozens, Dach, Turcotte has dropped off a bit but with 2 1sts this year it is likely the Avs will be able to pick up a high end young top 6 forward and the higher the selection the more likely they make the jump sooner than later.

    Kerfoot, JT, and Carl are good enough short term down the middle if the all around depth is there, which with Kaut and Bowers getting closer to making the jump could be pretty solid.

    What the Avs really lack on the 2nd line is high end talent that those picks could be but I am not sure Hayes is that, he would just be more depth, and another option down the middle. It would give the Avs more options with lines and make them more resilient to injuries. If you do get Hayes I think it is more of a "lets get this guy in case Soderberg goes down for some reason as right now we don't have someone who could fill in for that spot"

    Signing Hayes reminds me a lot of what STL did this offseason with Perron, Bozak and Maroon. It gave them more options but it really didn't change much of anything for them.
     
    McMetal likes this.
  6. Pierce Hawthorne

    Pierce Hawthorne Formerly Avsare1

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    23,113
    Likes Received:
    8,372
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Location:
    Caverns of Draconis

    Amazing when put in that perspective that nobody in the league would make that play.
     
    Avs_19 likes this.
  7. SoundwaveIsCharisma

    SoundwaveIsCharisma Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2003
    Messages:
    34,095
    Likes Received:
    6,069
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Location:
    Screw You Blaster
    Home Page:
    I find it boring that NHL GM's are so worried about being bad guys that they won't offer sheet other players. Way too conservative.
     
    Tommy G and Avs_19 like this.
  8. henchman24

    henchman24 Mr. Meeseeks

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    34,975
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    Trophy Points:
    156
    @Ivan13 I think not exploring a Hayes trade would be a mistake too. You have to at least see what it would cost to acquire him and get a headstart on re-signing him. Of course there are limits to what you should be willing to pay, but it screams to me a Conditional 1st (based on reaching a certain spot in the playoffs/re-signing) + B+ prospect isn't a bad price to pay. Even throwing in another 2nd/3rd doesn't break the bank IMO. Saying that I'd rather spend more to solve the issue in a different way, but getting Hayes at that price and likely re-signing isn't a terrible idea.
     
  9. Meeqs

    Meeqs Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,533
    Likes Received:
    1,389
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Location:
    USA
    As long as they are bottom 8ish with the lotto it should be great for the Avs in most cases. Bottom 5 would be a slam dunk.

    The Avs have been much better this year than anyone expected but I don't think giving up multiple 1st rounders for getting for only this year would have been a good call. He will be available in UFA should they choose to pursue him and it costs them nothing but the Cap it would have in any scenario. Especially considering this will be the best UFA class in a decade there is no reason to give up assets unless they are cost controlled with term already. There will be 10+ high end players the Avs can go after at the end of the year and few teams will be as enticing and have the flexibility they will. Now whether they should or not is a different story.
     
  10. Avs_19

    Avs_19 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Messages:
    71,154
    Likes Received:
    9,576
    Trophy Points:
    187
    It's terrible. We need Lou to do something crazy and vindictive this summer after losing Tavares to the Leafs. Getting Matthews or Marner to actually sign it might be difficult though. Throw $15M/yr at Matthews.
     
    Gabe the Babe likes this.
  11. Meeqs

    Meeqs Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,533
    Likes Received:
    1,389
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Location:
    USA
    I don't think its anything to do with that. Its that by design there is no logically reason why an OS would ever work. If you are giving them a contract the other team would pass on, then it costs more assets than it would take to simply trade for that player, and if it costs less assets then generally its a cheap enough deal where the team would just match. The political side is there too, for instance the GMs accepting not to use them as it pits them against themselves for the benefit of the player which makes no sense but that is irrelevant when the system is currently not balanced to be worth while.

    It would be like if there was a rule that said you can have Blake Comeau from any team as long as you give him a 7x7 contract at any point. GMs 'could' do it, but they wouldn't.
     
  12. Ivan13

    Ivan13 Super Joe!

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    25,735
    Likes Received:
    6,139
    Trophy Points:
    172
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Zagreb, Croatia
    I’m just not a fan of the player, nor do I think this team is in position of trading what it would get him yet.
     
  13. Meeqs

    Meeqs Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,533
    Likes Received:
    1,389
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Location:
    USA
    1 look at the other UFA's out there. If you're willing to give up assets, go after the rentals like Panarin and Stone.

    Also do you think the Avs are a Hayes from winning the Cup this year? If so then consider it but if you don't think the team is a legit Cup favorite then save your assets, the Avs window will be open for a long time and a high pick could be massive for this team over that duration.
     
  14. Meeqs

    Meeqs Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,533
    Likes Received:
    1,389
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Location:
    USA
    I bet the market is so saturated he is only moved for a 3rd and a meh prospect. Too many other guys who are better for teams to target if they are going rental.
     
  15. Piestany88

    Piestany88 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    2,510
    Likes Received:
    469
    Trophy Points:
    69
    Gender:
    Male
    Offer sheets are against the code , GMs are working together to keep salaries down
     
  16. Pokecheque

    Pokecheque armoredheadspace Sponsor

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    25,466
    Likes Received:
    6,739
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Wannabe Blogger
    Location:
    An Island of Orange in a Sea of Red
    Home Page:
    I don't think NHL GMs are "good guys." Quite the opposite in fact. They'd sell out their own family if it meant getting them closer to a Stanley Cup. And there's the rub, they're a very vindictive bunch. I think the residual shockwaves of the whole Backes/Bernier thing still leave teams a little gun-shy.

    Also, the system just doesn't lend itself well to a successful signing. First, you gotta identify a team that has a good player entering RFA status amid salary cap trouble. Then you have to make the offer sheet so massive the team is dissuaded from signing it. And THEN even if you're successful and the other team doesn't choose to match, you have to give up multiple draft picks in order to get the player. And the higher the offer sheet, the more draft picks.

    The only real reason to use offer sheets is the real "weaponization" of cap space, signing a complementary player or two in order to trip up an otherwise good team. For instance, I think during the Hawks' run of dominance someone suggested swooping in with a relatively modest offer sheet for a then-still-young Marcus Kruger. They either would've matched and gotten themselves in REAL trouble under the cap (at which point they would've been jettisoning even more talent than they usually do) or they would've given up one of their better defensive forwards at the time for a not-insane salary.

    I do hope we see another offer sheet saga at some point (hopefully not involving the Avs though). The fallout from the whole Dustin Penner thing and the incessant whining that both of the NHL's biggest drama queens at the time (Burke and Lowe) was so much fun to watch unfold. :laugh:
     
  17. Piestany88

    Piestany88 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    2,510
    Likes Received:
    469
    Trophy Points:
    69
    Gender:
    Male
    Not a fan of Hayes , we already have Soda who us a better hockey player
     
  18. CobraAcesS

    CobraAcesS De Opresso Liber

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    20,910
    Likes Received:
    5,105
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Sarcastitian
    Location:
    Michigan
    Well they suck at it
     
    Bubba Thudd likes this.
  19. Piestany88

    Piestany88 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    2,510
    Likes Received:
    469
    Trophy Points:
    69
    Gender:
    Male
    Well some GM 's are silly but take the Nylander fiasco for instance, Dubas did well to hold out and get him cheaper, it's just too bad he didn't let him sit the whole year .
     
  20. CobraAcesS

    CobraAcesS De Opresso Liber

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    20,910
    Likes Received:
    5,105
    Trophy Points:
    156
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Sarcastitian
    Location:
    Michigan
    Miss-conception, Nylander won that standoff.
     
  21. The Abusement Park

    The Abusement Park Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2016
    Messages:
    13,514
    Likes Received:
    6,089
    Trophy Points:
    141
    Location:
    Denver
    I think bringing in Hayes would be a better move than all of those mentioned. Hayes is a 2C pretty easily, not a high end one, but someone who’s good defensively and good for ~45 pts and something that is desperately needed. Then we can have him ease in a young C if needed and would be the de facto soda replacement so it makes a lot of sense. He 1)adds scoring depth 2) gives us a decent option for 2 way play 3) isn’t too old for the core 4) gives us flexibility going forward.

    Now this all depends on the price he comes at in a trade or as a UFA.
     
  22. Pokecheque

    Pokecheque armoredheadspace Sponsor

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    25,466
    Likes Received:
    6,739
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Wannabe Blogger
    Location:
    An Island of Orange in a Sea of Red
    Home Page:
    Eh...I don't buy that. It doesn't take offer sheets to inflate the market, we have lockouts every cycle because the GMs find a way to do that anyway. In fact the only time I recall a notable offer sheet actually raising market value of other star players was the infamous Rangers offer sheet for Joe Sakic way back when. I believe Paul Kariya and (I think) Brad Richards both took their respective teams to the cleaners after that one. I feel like I'm wrong about the latter though...if someone knows better then by all means, please correct me.
     
  23. Piestany88

    Piestany88 Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    2,510
    Likes Received:
    469
    Trophy Points:
    69
    Gender:
    Male
    Well yes I guess he did but got less than he was requesting. Glad Dubas didn't end up with the Avs , Tavares contract is bad and now Nylander overpaid.
     
  24. Pokecheque

    Pokecheque armoredheadspace Sponsor

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    25,466
    Likes Received:
    6,739
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Wannabe Blogger
    Location:
    An Island of Orange in a Sea of Red
    Home Page:
    I don't necessarily agree with that. Nylander was the one who blinked, not Dubas.

    You're in the minority if you think that's a bad contract, especially since he's had to fill in for an injury-prone Matthews and the team hasn't lost a step (well, recently they have but I think this is just a minor blip for them).

    And Nylander isn't necessarily overpaid. His numbers are not that of some complementary forward.
     
  25. Foppberg

    Foppberg Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Messages:
    17,289
    Likes Received:
    14,902
    Trophy Points:
    141
    I'd definitely side with Nylander on that whole situation, guy made out like a bandit. Though I'm not super high on him.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"