Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XV| Trade Everyone!

[Foppberg]

I think we've sort of established that nobody really wants Kerfoot.

Who's we?

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Makes you wonder what it would cost the Avs. Karlsson is the closest comparable that I can think of that was traded recently but I'd say Karlsson is also the better player. The closest equivalent of the Karlsson deal I could come up with for the Avs would be:

Pietrangelo
for
Avs 1st round 2019
Avs 2nd round pick 2019/2020 *STL's choice
Avs 1st round pick 2021/Avs 2021 2nd round *1st round pick If Pietrangelo re-signs or Avs make cup finals . Otherwise pick changes to 2nd round pick.
Kerfoot
Bowers
Lewis
Nemeth

My pants just tightened up

 

[Avs44]

Who's we?

There've been discussions about Kerfoot intermittently for the past few weeks, there've been good arguments about why his value is limited, and I've yet to see anyone present anything convincing to say otherwise. To me there's some consensus on that subject. You seem inclined to agree as well, given you'd give up Kerfoot and a 2nd for Hayes, but don't see too enthusiastic about paying anything for Hayes other than that. Kerfoot is a player that not many people are going to blink about losing.

 

[Foppa2118]

Kerfoot may have limited value but that doesn't mean nobody wants him. He put up 43 points as a rookie and he's on pace for 48 points this year. There are plenty of teams looking for offense that wouldn't mind having him. They just wouldn't give up a ton of value for him.

 

[Balthazar]

I'd love to trade Kerfoot+ for Hayes but it's not going to happen. I'm more than OK to trade the AVS 1st and a B prospect for him as long as a legit effort is made to resign him. Not doing it for a pure rental. Hayes is a guy I'd want long term on this team, he's a good middle 6er with size and God knows we need that.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If Hayes gets dealt, does that end his chances of going back to the Rangers next summer or would that be on the table? He picked the Rangers out of college and I would assume is very comfortable there. Is there anything to stop the Rangers from offering him a competitive long-term deal either now or next summer?

I think there’s a very minor chance he re-signs with us if he’s traded

They tried to get a deal worked out this past summer but the sticking point was the contract clauses and years. The team also has a bunch of young centers that need his ice time. I would be fine shifting him to wing long term but I’m not running the team

Whatever team that acquires him will most likely try to re-sign him. I’d love to keep him but it doesn’t make business sense to hang onto him past the deadline

 

[Avs44]

Kerfoot may have limited value but that doesn't mean nobody wants him. He put up 43 points as a rookie and he's on pace for 48 points this year. There are plenty of teams looking for offense that wouldn't mind having him. They just wouldn't give up a ton of value for him.

Obviously someone would take him for next to free, I didn't think I needed to clarify that. I was responding in the context of Kerfoot for something valuable (Hayes)

 

[Balthazar]

Hayes centering the 2nd line and Soda the 3rd line and all of a sudden we're not that small anymore. There's a world of difference between Hayes at C on the 2nd line and a tiny guy like Jost, Kerfoot or Compher.

 

[Avs44]

Hayes centering the 2nd line and Soda the 3rd line and all of a sudden we're not that small anymore. There's a world of difference between Hayes at C on the 2nd line and a tiny guy like Jost, Kerfoot or Compher.

Still think they need someone with size, speed, and tenacity on one of the middle lines, though Hayes would be a good step towards not just being a bunch of midgets.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Hayes is having a great year as well. There's probably some concern about whether it's because of the contract year or not but still I think he'd be a solid deadline target at the right price. Colorado 1st + another lesser piece.


Wonder would Colorado 1st + Lewis + Andrighetto get it done.

 

[cgf]

I'm pretty sure as long as Timmins doesn't play a single game he's exempt.

I don't think the expansion rules are clear outside of direct examples in the Vegas draft. But there's a bunch of rules in the CBA pertaining to professional seasons and it differs in every UFA group but all descriptions of professional seasons have number of games as a requirement.

An example from capfriendly:
What is a Group VI UFA?

A player whose contract is expiring and meets all of the following conditions shall become an unrestricted free agent (UFA):

1. The player is 25 years or older (as of June 30th of the calendar year the contract is expiring).
2. The player has completed 3 or more professional seasons - qualified by 11 or more professional games (for an 18/19 year old player), or 1 or more professional games (for a player aged 20 or older). This can include NHL, minor league, and European professional league seasons played while under an SPC.
3. The player has played less than 80 NHL games, or 28 NHL games of 30 minutes or greater for a goaltender.

From the Vegas draft, European players are actually exempt in the draft. And so are players with AHL experience aged 18/19 (January 1st cutoff).

I don't think there's actually an example of a player missing a whole season who can be referenced. But I'd be really surprised if a season with no games played counts as a season of professional experience for the purpose of the expansion draft.

I'm assuming that Timmins skating again means we'll see him play for the Eagles on that ELC at some point this season.

Which given his age should prevent it from sliding again...unless I'm mixing something up. And as far as I'm aware the ELC starting this season will be what determines whether a player is ED eligible...like if Makar signs his ELC for this season & plays on it (even in the AHL) then he's eligible, but if he signs his ELC for next season and only signs a PTO to play in the AHL this season he'd be safe.

 

[Balthazar]

I'm assuming that Timmins skating again means we'll see him play for the Eagles on that ELC at some point this season.

Do we know for a fact that he's still skating?

 

[Foppberg]

There've been discussions about Kerfoot intermittently for the past few weeks, there've been good arguments about why his value is limited, and I've yet to see anyone present anything convincing to say otherwise. To me there's some consensus on that subject. You seem inclined to agree as well, given you'd give up Kerfoot and a 2nd for Hayes, but don't see too enthusiastic about paying anything for Hayes other than that. Kerfoot is a player that not many people are going to blink about losing.

Ah I see. Haven't really been paying as much attention to HF the past while. I really like Hayes but at the same time he's not the type of player I overpay to get, not that calibre of player + not the right timing for that anyways. Be different if we were a prime Chicago or Pittsburgh situation.

 

[cgf]

OTT 1st + Timmins + top 10 protected 2020 1st for Tarasenko seems to get "value makes sense but I'd hate to trade him in division" from Blues fans.

Can y'all convince me that wouldn't be a great trade for us if the Blues FO could bare trading him in-division? Tank, Jimmothy & one of Jost / Kaut / Kerfoot; how does that line not just devour 2nd & 3rd pairings? Especially if we'll have one of Barrie, Girard or Makar on the ice at all times, behind them.

...and putting Tank on the right half circle of our PP to let Mikko play behind the net more, like he likes to, while shifting Landy into that central possession-maintainer / screener / tipper / garbage-man role that Wilson & Compher have been filling this season, would just make that 1st unit unstoppable. With Girard, Makar, Compher, Jost, Soda, Kaut, Kamenev, Kerfoot, Andrighetto, etc. left over for the 2nd unit *drools*

 

[Foppberg]

I dunno.. I'd rather pay that price for a 1B centre or high high end #2C than a great winger.

 

[Avs_19]

I hope this Tarasenko speculation is legit and they really feel he's not part of the solution. Please go ahead and trade your 27 year old winger, who is signed for four more years, and is second in goals over the last five seasons trailing only Ovechkin.

Maybe it'd make sense to take advantage of his trade value if they're rebuilding but they're in that Sens position right now. Their pick is top 10 protected in 2019 and unprotected in 2020 if they keep it so it's probably not a great time to rebuild. They also have a lot of guys in their prime or late 20's. I doubt they'd be able to get equal value if they decided to make a hockey trade.

 

[Foppa2118]

Obviously someone would take him for next to free, I didn't think I needed to clarify that. I was responding in the context of Kerfoot for something valuable (Hayes)

I would disagree with the next to free part. I don't think he would hold a ton of value as the + in a trade but if it was a team looking to implement a more speed/skill based approach to their game, I think they might be interested in him. Something equivalent to roughly a mid 2nd round pick or something maybe. 3rd at worst. Hard to gauge it though. It depends on the team.

 

[Avs_19]

OTT 1st + Timmins + top 10 protected 2020 1st for Tarasenko seems to get "value makes sense but I'd hate to trade him in division" from Blues fans.

Can y'all convince me that wouldn't be a great trade for us if the Blues FO could bare trading him in-division? Tank, Jimmothy & one of Jost / Kaut / Kerfoot; how does that line not just devour 2nd & 3rd pairings? Especially if we'll have one of Barrie, Girard or Makar on the ice at all times, behind them.

...and putting Tank on the right half circle of our PP to let Mikko play behind the net more, like he likes to, while shifting Landy into that central possession-maintainer / screener / tipper / garbage-man role that Wilson & Compher have been filling this season, would just make that 1st unit unstoppable. With Girard, Makar, Compher, Jost, Soda, Kaut, Kamenev, Kerfoot, Andrighetto, etc. left over for the 2nd unit *drools*

Put some Hughes protection in there and make the Sens pick top one protected and get it done.

 

[Balthazar]

Ah I see. Haven't really been paying as much attention to HF the past while. I really like Hayes but at the same time he's not the type of player I overpay to get, not that calibre of player + not the right timing for that anyways. Be different if we were a prime Chicago or Pittsburgh situation.

Hayes is only 26. If we trade for him it's because we want him long term. We have no one in the org at the moment that can realistically take on 2C duty for the next 3-4 years. We hoped for one of Jost or Bowers but it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

Also Soda is our big C at the moment and he's doing a tremendous job but he will need to be replaced soon. Yeah...the more we look at the current situation, the more we need Kevin Hayes. If we end up drafting a better 2C with OTT's pick then we slot Hayes at 3C when Soda is done. Can't lose.

 

[Foppberg]

Hayes is only 26. If we trade for him it's because we want him long term. We have no one in the org at the moment that can realistically take on 2C duty for the next 3-4 years. We hoped for one of Jost or Bowers but it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

Also Soda is our big C at the moment and he's doing a tremendous job but he will need to be replaced soon. Yeah...the more we look at the current situation, the more we need Kevin Hayes. If we end up drafting a better 2C with OTT's pick then we slot Hayes at 3C when Soda is done. Can't lose.

True, I'd be a fan of bringing him in. But not at the cost of a 1st + like has been mentioned by Rangers fans

 

[CobraAcesS]

Hayes is only 26. If we trade for him it's because we want him long term. We have no one in the org at the moment that can realistically take on 2C duty for the next 3-4 years. We hoped for one of Jost or Bowers but it doesn't look like it's going to happen.

Also Soda is our big C at the moment and he's doing a tremendous job but he will need to be replaced soon. Yeah...the more we look at the current situation, the more we need Kevin Hayes. If we end up drafting a better 2C with OTT's pick then we slot Hayes at 3C when Soda is done. Can't lose.

Yeah and his production combined with his play against the puck is exactly the combination we need. Before I watched him closely I wasn't on board with the 6M range it would take to extend him, but closer viewing has changed my mind. It isn't just the scoring streak hes on either. I'd like to think I can spot the difference.

 

[CobraAcesS]

True, I'd be a fan of bringing him in. But not at the cost of a 1st + like has been mentioned by Rangers fans

As long as hes willing to extend I'd gladly give up a first and someone not named Timmins/Makar/Bowers. Greer, Meloche (sorry CGF), etc would be fine.

Then I'd try to get a 2nd rounder for Kerflufle in the off-season if possible.

 

[CB Joe]

Hayes is having a great year as well. There's probably some concern about whether it's because of the contract year or not but still I think he'd be a solid deadline target at the right price. Colorado 1st + another lesser piece.


Wonder would Colorado 1st + Lewis + Andrighetto get it done.

Honestly, I don't expect the return to be that far off.

Last trade deadline:
Stastny gets 1st, 4th, Foley
Kane gets 1st, 4th, O'Regan
Tatar gets 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
Brassard + Dunn + 3rd gets 1st + 3rd + Cole + Gustavsson. (Dunn and Gustavsson are just throw ins. Cole was traded for a 3rd earlier in the same day. So if you cancel those out your left with Brassard for a 1st and 3rd)
Hartman + 5th gets 1st, 4th, and Ejdsell. (I don't think Hartman is the best comparable but included him because he was a young, showed some promise, and has middle six potential)

 

[CobraAcesS]

Honestly, I don't expect the return to be that far off.

Last trade deadline:
Stastny gets 1st, 4th, Foley
Kane gets 1st, 4th, O'Regan
Tatar gets 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
Brassard + Dunn + 3rd gets 1st + 3rd + Cole + Gustavsson. (Dunn and Gustavsson are just throw ins. Cole was traded for a 3rd earlier in the same day. So if you cancel those out your left with Brassard for a 1st and 3rd)
Hartman + 5th gets 1st, 4th, and Ejdsell. (I don't think Hartman is the best comparable but included him because he was a young, showed some promise, and has middle six potential)

The Kane deal would make sense with it having the condition of re-signing. That's a pretty good list.

 

[Foppa2118]

I dunno.. I'd rather pay that price for a 1B centre or high high end #2C than a great winger.

That makes sense, but it's going to be extremely hard to find a team willing to give up a 1B/high end #2C. The best way to find a center that good is usually through the draft.