Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part X | Offseason Blues

[McMetal]

I love the hell out of Drai, but Barrie+Jost+1st is a horrendous overpayment. He's really good, but not that good.

 

[klozge]

It really is.

I don't think you'll get Draisaitl for much less. But yeah, it would be smarter to just not make the deal.

 

[Patagonia]

I love the hell out of Drai, but Barrie+Jost+1st is a horrendous overpayment. He's really good, but not that good.

I agree this is a slight overpayment and enough to get a deal done for this quality of player.

Draisaitl is overpaid at $8.5M per long term, Barrie (trade often mentioned) with 2 years remaining is likely seeking $7.5M per. Jost is a strong 3C or 2nd Winger. AVs - 1st should be a playoff team and this would be a low round pick.

Financially, the amounts are close. Players and pick involved is reasonable. AVs still have their 2nd and Sens 1st + 3rd picks. Kaut, Bowers & Kamenev adding depth Wingers. I think the AVs should make this deal and it would accelerate the rebuild and not worry about Barrie resigning or losing to expansion.

 

[Foppberg]

I love Leon, but no way I move all three of Barrie + Jost + first for him.

 

[avsfan09]

I love Leon, but no way I move all three of Barrie + Jost + first for him.

We're a better team with those pieces. I'd think about two of them but even than I think we're better off sticking the course.

 

[avsfan09]

It really isnt. But I'm not about to get into this debate again. Some people just over value our players a tonne. It is what it is.

Like Draisaitl??

 

[Patagonia]

We're a better team with those pieces. I'd think about two of them but even than I think we're better off sticking the course.

I agree this is an overpayment and almost never agree with Pierce, but Barrie is overvalued as well. Move him now allows the AVs to get full value and prior to the future problems is good player management. It hurts to lose Jost and 1st, but the Oilers are also taking a risk moving a possible 1C for a player with 2 years remaining.

 

[Foppberg]

I agree this is an overpayment and almost never agree with Pierce, but Barrie is overvalued as well. Move him now allows the AVs to get full value and prior to the future problems is good player management. It hurts to lose Jost and 1st, but the Oilers are also taking a risk moving a possible 1C for a player with 2 years remaining.

The one time you agree with Pierce is because it involves Barrie being traded? Shocking.

 

[OwenNolan]

It really isnt. But I'm not about to get into this debate again. Some people just over value our players a tonne. It is what it is.

No doubt.

Drai is an elite player, locked up for 6 more years and has 147 points the past 2 years as well as 16 points in 13 playoff games 2 years ago. I think people forget he is 22 years old.

That's no-brainer of a trade. Take it and run.

 

[OwenNolan]

Dp

 

[OwenNolan]

Tp

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yeah Barrie + 1st + Jost is probably an overpayment but its not a major overpayment, and it would take an overpayment to get a Center like Draisaitl from the Oilers anyway. Plus I think a lot of people are undervaluing the impact of adding a guy like Khaira to the bottom 6 as well. He's a solid 3rd liner who brings a lot to the table.




The thing is, its becoming increasingly obvious in todays NHL that it's not Defense that is the true secret to winning. It's Centers. Look at the stanley cup winners of the last decade and a pretty obvious picture starts to get created, which is that almost every team that's won has had not 1, but 2 elite Centers or at least two #1 quality Centers on the team. Washington(Kuz and Backstrom), Pittsburgh(Malkin and Crosby), LA(Kopitar and Carter), Boston(Bergeron and Krejci). The only team to not have 2 high end Centers and win the cup in the last decade has been Chicago, and even they used Kane as a Center combined with Toews at C for at least one of those cup runs(2010).


And you're seeing teams loading up on exactly this right now. Toronto just added Tavares to go with Matthews and Kadri down the middle, Tampa Bay has Stamkos, Point, and Johnson down the middle.


Center depth is the key to success right now. Even more so then Defense. And if it means having a 1-2 punch of Mackinnon/Draisaitl(Or another high end 2C to go behind Mack, doesn't have to be Drai), then I'd happily over pay to get that piece. It is by far the biggest hole we have in the lineup right now and IMO its the last major piece left to fill before getting serious about the playoff picture.


The other thing is with the current make up of our prospect pool, I have significantly more trust in the young Dmen we have(Specifically Makar) to be able to step up and fill the hole that Barrie would leave behind, then I do in our forward group being able to step up and fill the 2C hole we currently have.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I love the sounds of Stone and Draisaitl etc and have been advocating trading for one of those studs for a long time but I’m smart enough to see that it isn’t going to happen.

Sakic is the most patient man on the planet. He’s well aware that we have a deep need for some high level secondary scoring. He has admitted it and has proven that he wants to add it by taking a stab at Tavares in late June. Taking a look at next year’s UFA crop makes it pretty clear that Sakic is going to wait this out, save his tradeable assets and fix that hole next year in free agency.

And yeah I know, overpaying UFA’s usually don’t end well but with so many big name UFA’s available and only so much money to go around, these guys aren’t all going to get overpaid. There isn’t enough money in the NHL to give out 15 10 million dollar plus deals next year.

Lots of these guys will be locked up before July 1 next year but there will absolutely be a few to choose from out of Stone, Pavelski, Duchene, Seguin, Wheeler, Panarin, Skinner, Patches, Silfverberg, Simmonds, Staal, Zuccarello, Hayes, etc.

 

[Patagonia]

The one time you agree with Pierce is because it involves Barrie being traded? Shocking.

I’m also surprised considering his love for Barrie

 

[CalderKing21]

So...why exactly are we discussing overpaying for an overpaid Edmonton player again?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

So...why exactly are we discussing overpaying for an overpaid Edmonton player again?

I don’t believe Lucia or Sekera have been mentioned?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I’m also surprised considering his love for Barrie

Dont confuse my interest in trading him for Drai to be anything more then a desire to get an elite 2C.


There's a very, very small list of players I would trade Barrie for and outside of that list it would be extremely dumb to move him.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

So...why exactly are we discussing overpaying for an overpaid Edmonton player again?

Drai isn't overpaid. It looked like maybe he would be when he first signed that deal, but the new deals given out this summer to other Centers are pretty strong indicators that he essentially got market value for himself.

 

[CalderKing21]

Drai isn't overpaid. It looked like maybe he would be when he first signed that deal, but the new deals given out this summer to other Centers are pretty strong indicators that he essentially got market value for himself.

He's still overpaid, the new deals don't overrule that contract. So again my question remains. Why exactly are we discussing overpaying for an overpaid Edmonton player again?

 

[Ivan13]

Leon Draisaitl isn't overpaid? He most certainly is.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Leon Draisaitl is a #1 Centre (lower end right now but he’s still a 1C) who is 22 years old and making 8.5M a year for the next 7 years. And somehow that’s a bad thing?

He just scored 70 points in 78 games while being quite good (not great) defensively. He scored 77 the year before (largely thanks to Mcdavid but still) and has 16 points in 13 career playoff games (this time no thanks to Mcdavid).

He makes up about 10% of his team’s cap (it’ll be less and less as we approach each of his remaining 7 years) and he has been in on 32% of his team’s production over the last two years including playoffs.

People refuse to adapt to a continually growing cap world but that is a very fair contract. His contract is actually fair already and will turn “good” as inflation continues and joan percentage of his team’s salary goes down. Especially if he continues his current level of play. If he improves like most players his age usually do his contract turns into a bargain.

 

[Freudian]

At some point Oilers have to see what Draisaitl can do on his own line. He played 62.5% of all ES TOI with McDavid and 100% of PP TOI with McDavid last season.

Next season will be his fifth as a pro player. Have to take the growing pains at some point or move him full time to wing.

 

[CalderKing21]

Leon Draisaitl is a #1 Centre (lower end right now but he’s still a 1C) who is 22 years old and making 8.5M a year for the next 7 years. And somehow that’s a bad thing?

He just scored 70 points in 78 games while being quite good (not great) defensively. He scored 77 the year before (largely thanks to Mcdavid but still) and has 16 points in 13 career playoff games (this time no thanks to Mcdavid).

He makes up about 10% of his team’s cap (it’ll be less and less as we approach each of his remaining 7 years) and he has been in on 32% of his team’s production over the last two years including playoffs.

People refuse to adapt to a continually growing cap world but that is a very fair contract.

The % of the cap is not the issue, the cap will always go up.
Just because a player makes 8.5 in AAV and some other teams give out worse contracts...doesn't justify the contract. 8.5 AAV is "He's early franchise" level money.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Welcome to the era of Avs fans with a warped sense of cap value due to MacKinnon making 6.3M.

 

[Balthazar]

Draisaitl isn't on the trade block.

 

[Miri]

It really isnt. But I'm not about to get into this debate again. Some people just over value our players a tonne. It is what it is.

Meanwhile you seem not to value them one bit

 

[CalderKing21]

Welcome to the era of Avs fans with a warped sense of cap value due to MacKinnon making 6.3M.

Has nothing to do with what Mack is making. The Avs always sign their guys early and for less.

People are talking about taking on a 8.5m AAV contract, dealing multiple pieces for said contract, then essentially placing said contract on the 2nd line. Unless of course you believe Draisaitl to be a better C than Mack and want to move Mack to wing or to the 2nd line.

 

[Balthazar]

The thing is, its becoming increasingly obvious in todays NHL that it's not Defense that is the true secret to winning. It's Centers.

That is correct. This is why Kotkaniemi and Hayton went in the top 5 at the draft and this is also why the Oilers signed Draisaitl and McDavid to these contracts so they can have their 1-2 punch for 8 years.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Has nothing to do with what Mack is making. The Avs always sign their guys early and for less.

People are talking about taking on a 8.5m AAV contract, dealing multiple pieces for said contract, then essentially placing said contract on the 2nd line. Unless of course you believe Draisaitl to be a better C than Mack and want to move Mack to wing or to the 2nd line.

By this logic Tavares isn't worth his contract because he might be Toronto's #2C.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Has nothing to do with what Mack is making. The Avs always sign their guys early and for less.

People are talking about taking on a 8.5m AAV contract, dealing multiple pieces for said contract, then essentially placing said contract on the 2nd line. Unless of course you believe Draisaitl to be a better C than Mack and want to move Mack to wing or to the 2nd line.

Our GM has done a good enough job with his salary structure that we can afford to put an 8.5M value player on our second line. That’s just good management and how you build depth. Pittsburgh has a guy making over 8M centering their second line. That doesn’t make them dumb or doesn’t means it’s a waste of that player by playing him on the second line. It means they straight up dummy secondary competition because they have elite level talent playing on their second line.

We tried to sign Tavares. Do you think that only would have made sense if our intention was to put him with Mackinnon on the top line? Of course not.

We have some bargain contracts that will hopefully give us the opportunity to put top line level players in secondary situations. It’s how you build contenders.

I’m not advocating trading Barrie/Jost etc. I don’t know how to make it happen. But I sure as hell would love to have Draisaitl on our second line at 8.5M.