Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 17-18 Part VII

[cgf]

The 1st & Boeser are the vancouver pieces that should be of interest in a Duchene trade, not a bust like Joulevi.

 

[tigervixxxen]

We are not getting Boeser

 

[tigervixxxen]

I hate to even go there but...say the Avs are circling back on some of these futures heavy offers if it's true they are no longer insisting on a NHL proven/ready young D. Who would have the best package?

 

[Byzantium]

No chance Duchene gets us anything good from Vancouver. They need to rebuild and not trade their futures for somebody who is not gonna sign there as an UFA in 1.5 years.

 

[Pokecheque]

Stastny was invsible when he played for Avs and then wound up playing on Blues 3rd line after he was not good enough on their top 2 lines. ROR wanted to get paid big time even before we signed him to a bridge deal. Duchy was our best player at that time and just imagine if other players start asking 1 or 2 million over to what they are really worth. We would be in the same position as Wings with most of the players agents follwing other overpaid contracts on the team. 1 or 2 or 4 million is not a lot, but if a top half of players are being overpaid then we will wind up in a cap trouble just like Wings.

Wow, revisionist history anyone?

 

[marioni]

...at least we're drafting better...

Are we? We need to wait a few years to see how the 2015 and 2016 drafts turn out. For all we know we killed it with Jost and Rants and they end up the best players available at their draft positions.

2016: Tyson Jost. Passed over: Charlie McAvoy
2015: Mikko Rantanen. Passed over: Thomas Chabot
2014: Connor Bleackley. Passed over: David Pastrnak
2013: Nate MacKinnon. Passed over: Sasha Barkov, Seth Jones, etc
2012: (pick traded for Varlamov)
2011: Gabe Landeskog, Duncan Siemens. Passed over: Mark Scheifele, Nikita Kucherov, Johnny Gaudreau.

Basically, every person responsible for Avs drafting should be fired and possibly jailed. 25 to life.

 

[cgf]

Are we? We need to wait a few years to see how the 2015 and 2016 drafts turn out. For all we know we killed it with Jost and Rants and they end up the best players available at their draft positions.

2016: Tyson Jost. Passed over: Charlie McAvoy
2015: Mikko Rantanen. Passed over: Thomas Chabot
2014: Connor Bleackley. Passed over: David Pastrnak
2013: Nate MacKinnon. Passed over: Sasha Barkov, Seth Jones, etc
2012: (pick traded for Varlamov)
2011: Gabe Landeskog, Duncan Siemens. Passed over: Mark Scheifele, Nikita Kucherov, Johnny Gaudreau.

Basically, every person responsible for Avs drafting should be fired and possibly jailed. 25 to life.

2014 was a disaster outside of Kyle Wood, but I like what they did with the 2015-2017 draft classes and the 2013 class, even if they passed on potential #1 dmen with their top picks in 2015 & 2016. I am a huge fan of Meloche & Greer, and I really like Beaudin (whether his offense translates to the pros or not); while both Mironov & Boikov have legit third pairing potential. And in 2016 we got Morrison who has the tools to be a top 6 PWF (just like Greer) & Clurman who has legit top 4 potential (albeit with a long developmental path to get there). While the 2017 draft class is littered with good gambles; Makar is a huge talent, Timmins is a clear top 4 prospect, Henry is a nifty third line prospect, Shvyryov is a massive talent if he ever chooses to come over, Smirnov has legit skills if he can overcome his size, and Leivermann is an intriguing long term flyer.

PS it is unfair to list Gaudreau as a passed over, he was as big a gamble as Smirnov at the time of that draft.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

The Avs drafting still leaves a lot to be desired. I mean it has probably improved somewhat but it is miles behind the best teams in the league.

I don't like the 2016 draft at all, should have went with D instead of Jost, Anderson was basically just throwing a 3rd away and the rest, except Morrison, will most likely contribute nothing at the NHL level.

 

[CB Joe]

2014 wasn't a great draft year for many teams. A thin draft overall.

 

[CB Joe]

Why is it you guys never post links to stuff you reference? Not sure about you specifically Avs44, but there has been a lot of that going on lately.

POST A LINK! It's even easier now than it used to be for stuff like twitter.

Sportsnet - Video and article. Avs talk starts around 2:15.

On a side note - lol at Bergevin being under contract until 2021-22.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Sakic will never hit that home run with Duchene but instead has to sell low because there is no other option.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

Wow, revisionist history anyone?

Casper the friendly ghost.

 

[agentblack]

I hate to even go there but...say the Avs are circling back on some of these futures heavy offers if it's true they are no longer insisting on a NHL proven/ready young D. Who would have the best package?

For me its the Isles easily, just give us all the picks you got for Hamonic.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I hate to even go there but...say the Avs are circling back on some of these futures heavy offers if it's true they are no longer insisting on a NHL proven/ready young D. Who would have the best package?

Nashville and Calgary. There are some other teams with better prospect pools but they aren't at the point where they should be trading them for a player who is a UFA in 18 months.

Tolvanen + Girard/Fabbro or Valimaki + Parsons + something else are my favorite proposals whether we're talking all futures or not.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It depends on exactly what's being offered though.


IMO there's not a chance in hell Nashville is offering Tolvanen right now, so it's more likely Kamenev + Girard/Fabbro. And Also no way in hell Calgary is offering Valimaki.


I think the possible offers we would be getting would look something like:


Girard + Kamenev + Pick from Nashville.

Larsson + Comtois + Pick from Anaheim

Carlsson + Bjorkstrand + Pick from Columbus

Dalcolle + Multiple picks from NYI

Juolevi + Picks from Vancouver

Bean + Gauthier + Pick from Carolina

White + Claesson + Pick


*A lot of these picks would have to be 1st I think. Only exception being the Columbus offer where if we're getting Bjorkstrand it's probably a 2nd round pick coming back our way. NYI Would give up at least 1 and probably 2 1st's, along with maybe another pick as well.



And then some dark horse teams like LA(Around Clague and/or maybe Vilardi) Montreal(Though not futures based and probably around Galchenyuk), The Rangers(But with this one I dont know what they could be offering).



That's the type of value we'll be getting if we trade Duchene for a futures heavy package. We wont be getting Blue chip prospects. That's what Sakic is likely demanding and has been for some time now. If a deal were going to happen involving those type of guys it would have already happened.

 

[cgf]

The Avs drafting still leaves a lot to be desired. I mean it has probably improved somewhat but it is miles behind the best teams in the league.

I don't like the 2016 draft at all, should have went with D instead of Jost, Anderson was basically just throwing a 3rd away and the rest, except Morrison, will most likely contribute nothing at the NHL level.

I'd love McAvoy, but he's the only guy you can point to who should've definitely been taken ahead of Jost in 2016. Anderson was a f*** up, but I really like Clurman if we're patient with him and don't throw him away like we did Wood.

The drafting can obviously continue to improve; but look back at those post-2009 drafts (outside of 2013) and the improvement in 2015-2017 is clear.

That's the type of value we'll be getting if we trade Duchene for a futures heavy package. We wont be getting Blue chip prospects. That's what Sakic is likely demanding and has been for some time now. If a deal were going to happen involving those type of guys it would have already happened.

Shine on you naive optimist.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Sign me up for either of:

Girard + Kamenev + 1st
Bean + Gauthier + 1st

 

[Nalens Oga]

I'm all for the new-age NHL dman but my worry is that if they just get a Girard or Bean type, even if they develop further, we still don't have a proper shot-suppressing NHL dman that can play 23 min+. I don't really consider EJ as this since he's too mentally inconsistent, Z hasn't developed into one, Bigras doesn't have the high-end potential, Barrie is looking good this year but isn't a big shot-suppressor. We already have another high-upside offensive dman in the system in Makar now.

This is why I wish they'd jumped on the Sergachev or Ryan Murray deals, they both had the potential to get to that level.

 

[cgf]

Sign me up for either of:

Girard + Kamenev + 1st
Bean + Gauthier + 1st

I'd do Fleury + Goat or Necas, but not Bean. Just have a very bad feeling about Bean ending up the next Stefan Elliott if we got him.

I'm all for the new-age NHL dman but my worry is that if they just get a Girard or Bean type, even if they develop further, we still don't have a proper shot-suppressing NHL dman that can play 23 min+. I don't really consider EJ as this since he's too mentally inconsistent, Z hasn't developed into one, Bigras doesn't have the high-end potential, Barrie is looking good this year but isn't a big shot-suppressor. We already have another high-upside offensive dman in the system in Makar now.

This is why I wish they'd jumped on the Sergachev or Ryan Murray deals, they both had the potential to get to that level.

Between Zadorov, Bigras & Meloche there's enough two-way potential in our pool even if Makar & Girard aren't giants. I don't like Bean though, unlike Girard I'm not in love with his instincts.

 

[Pokecheque]

Casper the friendly ghost.

Yeah I'm familiar with that false narrative, thanks.

 

[Pokecheque]

I hate to even go there but...say the Avs are circling back on some of these futures heavy offers if it's true they are no longer insisting on a NHL proven/ready young D. Who would have the best package?

I still think they could get a decent package from Vancouver. I know I'm the LONE GUY who thinks Tanev is a good idea but I think he'd solve so very many issues this team has right now.

The one destination that seems to make sense for all parties involved is Nashville. They have the prospects and it's definitely a destination Duchene would be okay with.

 

[Freaky Styley]

I think a 3-way trade sending Duchene to Montreal could be a possibility.

 

[S E P H]

I'd do Juolevi and a 1st.

We get it, you would trade Duchene for anybody.

I am still a Juolevi fan as a lot of you know, I think going to Finland is a step in the right direction for him and his development and that a lot of hate is over the top. Not that it isn't unwarranted because he did look quite bad in the preseason, but that he plays on a Canadian fanbase and was drafted high. Those two are a perfect concoction of overreaction; for example think about how many times we heard that anybody who came from Toronto was horrible and an awful player, but turned out to be somewhat decent? So because of that, I do suggest that Juolevi isn't as bad as people make him out to be.

Though with all that said, Avs cannot simply take another defender who's decision-making is becoming iffier as time passes and hope in another reclamation project. Avs already have Zadorov in the hopes of being smarter with the puck. Then, we have EJ Johnson which a lot of us are starting to realise will never develop a cerebral game. This weakness of the team continues on with MacKinnon and we are opening up to the ideas that he is not simply as smart as we all thought he would be. Not only all of this, but we drafted a high risk, high reward defender in Makar who could become another Juolevi, or a defender that should have not been drafted that high. Juolevi is a defender Avs don't need to gamble on as half of our team are players that we "hope" could become better or be rebound their games due to a various of cases (such as...Varlamov, Bigras, Johnson, Nemeth, Zadorov, Andrighetto, Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon, Soderberg, Wilson, and Yakupov). Sakic is not wrong for trying and pinpointing certain players to get a homerun type of trade for Duchene. If we somehow **** this up, we can easily go down the path of the Florida Panthers and Columbus Blue Jackets in being that mindless team picking high with no plan, but a revolving door for personnel (players and front office alike). I am not against a heavy-prospect trade, I much prefer that than getting Ekholm or Muzzin straight up, but Avs have got to be sure that they gamble with the right prospects.

 

[tigervixxxen]

If we are doing prospect plus first not sure that would be my choice. However I get if that pick is unprotected could be the best one we could get and Juolevi at least has pedigree/potential. But if we are doing a futures deal I think we need more pieces.

 

[CB Joe]

Chabot is still at the top of my list.