Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 17-18 Part VII

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Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
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If new york would offer Skjei I would take that, even if it is just 1 for 1. I would throw out some feelers to the leafs for Erik Johnson, he is exactly what they need, they can afford his cap hit, it decimates the avs defense this year, but hey Cale Makar and a shot at Dahlin....

If they could swing Marner for Johnson just imagine how much better he could make Mackinnon.

And then if the avs could somehow win the lottery you could go with

rants-mack-marner
lando-jost-compher

Dahlin-Makar
Zads - Barrie

Anyway I will show myself out....
I do that trade very very easily.
 

Lonewolfe2015

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I would say the signs show exactly the opposite. Terrible coaching, keeps his staff around for years even if they are terrible, loses many trades, horrible UFA contracts, questionable drafting, changes his "plan" quite often, goes for it if the team is even close to making the playoffs, doesn't rebuild when he should, not good at all in asset management, afraid to make big moves.....

Can't blame Sakic for Roy's mistakes, just for letting them go on for as long as they did. It was a good hire at the time that got out of control. Most of Sakic's failures come down to staffing, which ultimately is on him.
 

Tralfamadore

Don't Panic.
Sep 25, 2011
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If new york would offer Skjei I would take that, even if it is just 1 for 1. I would throw out some feelers to the leafs for Erik Johnson, he is exactly what they need, they can afford his cap hit, it decimates the avs defense this year, but hey Cale Makar and a shot at Dahlin....

If they could swing Marner for Johnson just imagine how much better he could make Mackinnon.

And then if the avs could somehow win the lottery you could go with

rants-mack-marner
lando-jost-compher

Dahlin-Makar
Zads - Barrie

Anyway I will show myself out....

You can't possibly think the leafs would trade Marner for EJ? .

Would you trade MacKinnon for someone like Ryan McDonough? Essentially what you're asking. It's even worse really because McD is better than EJ.
 

StayAtHomeAv

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May 20, 2014
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If we had kept Roy I'm pretty sure this team would implode. He's too emotional and headstrong to be GM. Sakic has all the signs of being able to be a good GM, but he hasn't surrounded himself with good people yet and that's been his undoing. Which is more problematic for him as VP/President then as GM, he's the one that is making staff decisions and they're failures so far. Overall though his patience, willingness to listen to counsel, methodical approach to conducting business is very good. It means we wouldn't just trade someone for the sake of getting rid of them when their personality clashes with Roy.

His patience is an aweful trait. What counsel is he listening to? A methodical approach to conducting business? Where are you getting that from? Sakic has shown all the signs of a bad GM who is in over his head.
 

StayAtHomeAv

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Can't blame Sakic for Roy's mistakes, just for letting them go on for as long as they did. It was a good hire at the time that got out of control. Most of Sakic's failures come down to staffing, which ultimately is on him.

1) You can't blame every bad decision as a Roy mistake

2) Sakic hired Roy. Sakic is GM. Sakic has a say in every single aspect of the team. Sakic is to blame for everything. He doesn't get a pass because a decision wasn't his original idea.
 

lonelybadger

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Feb 22, 2013
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Babcock is playing marner 14 minutes a night with Matt Martin. He is a luxury at this time. I think there would need to be some pluses on either side, but the leafs need a top pairing RD more than they need 14 minutes a night from Mitch Marner. Especially with their currently hilarious offensive riches.

The leafs have definitely tried peddling draft picks, bozak, jvr, kapenen for right handed defensive help and it has not worked out. Nylander/Matthews is a duo they are not going to break up, Kadri is not going anywhere because he is a solid 2 way center. The only high value piece is Marner. I know Marner has shown he can be a top 6 winger, and he has the upside to be a top 10-15 winger in the league, but the Leafs have the luxury of forward depth and are sorely lacking in a top pairing defensively capable D man. Where else would they get a right handed top pairing capable d man from?

Duchene at 50% + Johnson for Marner and Lili.

Duchene at 50%> Lili
Marner > EJ

Is it crazy? of course it is. The leafs get better the final 2 seasons of matthews ELC to try and win a cup, and the avs will be hilariously bad for 2 seasons.

Mack for McDonagh to me does not make a fair comparison, only because Avs are no where near as close to competing for the cup as the leafs are. Would the leafs trade Marner for McDonagh? Maybe, Reilly can play the right side, and that would give them a top pairing but is that want Babcock wants?
 

Lonewolfe2015

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His patience is an aweful trait. What counsel is he listening to? A methodical approach to conducting business? Where are you getting that from? Sakic has shown all the signs of a bad GM who is in over his head.
The best GM's in the league are patient and methodical, Yzerman, Lou, Poile, etc. They receive feedback from their staff, weigh the decision and then execute.

Sakic's mistakes are in the people he surrounded himself with and giving them too much freedom. Every rookie Manager does that, in the NHL or otherwise. You don't want to micromanage and you want to delegate to your team to let them make the right decision. When someone like Roy comes and advocates you bring in Stuart you don't tell him no until he's proven he doesn't know what he's talking about. By the time Roy proved he didn't know what he was talking about it was too late and Sakic had started to intervene, at that time listening to MacFarland and his stats guys. Just so happened those guys thought Tyutin, Colborne and co made sense. Can't expect Sakic to be omniscient. But you can blame him for assembling a mediocre staff and putting a poor plan in place.

Sakic is not doing well, but that doesn't change my previous point that he has all the characters of a good GM short of the ability to assemble a good staff to advise him.
 

henchman21

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Yzerman is not a patient man, not at all. He is probably the most active and aggressive GM in the business (Poile is up there too). Yzerman is always trying to find creative solutions to any issues he has. He is stubborn as can be and will stick to his guns on what he feels is fair, but he is far, far from patient.
 

Lonewolfe2015

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Yzerman is not a patient man, not at all. He is probably the most active and aggressive GM in the business (Poile is up there too). Yzerman is always trying to find creative solutions to any issues he has. He is stubborn as can be and will stick to his guns on what he feels is fair, but he is far, far from patient.

And how often does he just throw things on the wall until it sticks? From my perspective he's always picking up good options short of when he went full goalie mode for Lindback/Bishop. Patience isn't sitting back and doing nothing, it's only doing something once it make sense.
 

lonelybadger

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My Marner for Ej dream is dead, apparently Cheveldayoff was at the leafs game last night. Probably means Trouba will replace EJ in my trade scenario
 

StayAtHomeAv

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May 20, 2014
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And how often does he just throw things on the wall until it sticks? From my perspective he's always picking up good options short of when he went full goalie mode for Lindback/Bishop. Patience isn't sitting back and doing nothing, it's only doing something once it make sense.

And that's Sakic's problem. He doesn't know what makes sense.
 

Tralfamadore

Don't Panic.
Sep 25, 2011
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Babcock is playing marner 14 minutes a night with Matt Martin. He is a luxury at this time. I think there would need to be some pluses on either side, but the leafs need a top pairing RD more than they need 14 minutes a night from Mitch Marner. Especially with their currently hilarious offensive riches.

The leafs have definitely tried peddling draft picks, bozak, jvr, kapenen for right handed defensive help and it has not worked out. Nylander/Matthews is a duo they are not going to break up, Kadri is not going anywhere because he is a solid 2 way center. The only high value piece is Marner. I know Marner has shown he can be a top 6 winger, and he has the upside to be a top 10-15 winger in the league, but the Leafs have the luxury of forward depth and are sorely lacking in a top pairing defensively capable D man. Where else would they get a right handed top pairing capable d man from?

Duchene at 50% + Johnson for Marner and Lili.

Duchene at 50%> Lili
Marner > EJ

Is it crazy? of course it is. The leafs get better the final 2 seasons of matthews ELC to try and win a cup, and the avs will be hilariously bad for 2 seasons.

Mack for McDonagh to me does not make a fair comparison, only because Avs are no where near as close to competing for the cup as the leafs are. Would the leafs trade Marner for McDonagh? Maybe, Reilly can play the right side, and that would give them a top pairing but is that want Babcock wants?

You missed my point with McD. I'm talking in terms of value. To trade a young up and coming star for an aging defencman makes no sense. We wouldn't trade MacK for McD just how TOR wouldn't trade Marner for EJ.
 

Pokecheque

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I really think the onus of the blame lies upstream from Sakic. There's a very staid, almost lazy culture in Pepsi Center (I'm reticent to use the word "culture" because it's so overused these days) that looked at a 48-point season and said "Yep, what we're doing is fine." Say what you will about the late Ed Snider but he would've fired EVERYONE after a failure of that magnitude. Instead they let go of two assistants and a third who was on his way out anyway. That's it. I don't even know if they made any changes to the scouting/development staff. And while I still think it wasn't a bad idea to stick with Bednar, it does fit the narrative that Sakic would rather make no decision than a bold decision.

As far as Sakic goes I'm just hoping that he, like Bob Murray, has finally assembled a staff that will eventually succeed despite his many faults. I can't root for his eventual ouster because it's just not gonna happen. They're not going to fire him.
 
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henchman21

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And how often does he just throw things on the wall until it sticks? From my perspective he's always picking up good options short of when he went full goalie mode for Lindback/Bishop. Patience isn't sitting back and doing nothing, it's only doing something once it make sense.

A lot actually. He always has a plan, but he talks about a lot of names and gets creative quite frequently. This is a guy who flipped Mark Streit so he could get rid of a contract for basically a 7th round pick. He deals picks back and forth like they are candy. Yzerman is not a patient GM, is an aggressive one who always has a clear plan of what he is trying to accomplish. It doesn't always work out, but he always has a thought process behind it.
 

Pokecheque

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And how often does he just throw things on the wall until it sticks? From my perspective he's always picking up good options short of when he went full goalie mode for Lindback/Bishop. Patience isn't sitting back and doing nothing, it's only doing something once it make sense.

Yzerman is aggressive, yes, but he never panics. One can be bold without being overly impetuous. The only true throw-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks GM I can recall was Mike Milbury.
 

lonelybadger

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Feb 22, 2013
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Marner may or may not be a star, EJ is an average top pairing right handed D. The leafs have a lot of up and coming forward stars, but they don't have any up and coming top pairing D, especially during the 2 cheap Matthews seasons.

I think there are better options if they are willing to trade Marner or Nylander (My guess would be Trouba) but who knows if Jets would do that
 

Avs44

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May 16, 2011
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A 29, soon to be 30, year old EJ does not sniff a 20 year old Mitch Marner who had a 61 point rookie season...that wouldn't even be an option on the Leafs' radar.
 
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