ATD Chat Thread XVI

[ResilientBeast]

You misspelt "Houston".

Before our new arena was built, the threat was Seattle Katz and Gretzky even went and visited them

I have forgotten that they do have a team coming, but give us the expansion franchise and move this team to Seattle

 

[ImporterExporter]

You misspelt "Houston".

I keep telling people, stop moving hockey teams to the southern United States!

With that being said, Dallas/Texas is actually a decent hockey market all things considered. But I really wish a few of the US based teams would move back to Canada.

#TheNorthRemembers

 

[BenchBrawl]

The Government of Canada should start such a hockey history site somewhere where researchers can contribute, but not expecting cutting-edge stuff like that coming from a bureaucracy.If Harper was still in office I might have tried to contact him, given he actually wrote a book on hockey history.Missed opportunity.

 

[VanIslander]

Two rabid fan bases in the Southern US: San Jose & Nashville.

The Shark Tank and Smashville.

Gawd how I love those teams!

 

[VanIslander]

www.sihrhockey.org

 

[ImporterExporter]

The Government of Canada should start such a hockey history site somewhere where researchers can contribute, but not expecting cutting-edge stuff like that coming from a bureaucracy.If Harper was still in office I might have tried to contact him, given he actually wrote a book on hockey history.Missed opportunity.

I should run for national office here in the states and upon winning introduce some sort of hockey history bill and then tell my fellow Americans that Canada can pay for the funding!

In all seriousness governments have wasted a shitload of money on more idiotic measures than preserving hockey history.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I should run for national office here in the states and upon winning introduce some sort of hockey history bill and then tell my fellow Americans that Canada can pay for the funding!

In all seriousness governments have wasted a ****load of money on more idiotic measures than preserving hockey history.

I agree.Hockey history is important, especially in Canada as it is the #1 sport and qualifies as a cultural phenomenon.

When I do an in-depth biography, I feel like I'm doing more interesting and important work than what? 50% of Ph.Ds out there? Maybe more? Sure, almost no one reads the bios, but at least it's there, as a reference, if someone might be interested in the future.Most academics papers are never read by anyone, and the subject matter is almost certain never to interest anyone neither.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I have my reservation about a site requiring paid memberships.I don't mind paying for it myself, but it blocks a lot of people and it blocks free movement.


I agree.Hockey history is important, especially in Canada as it is the #1 sport and qualifies as a cultural phenomenon.

When I do an in-depth biography, I feel like I'm doing more interesting and important work than what? 50% of Ph.Ds out there? Maybe more? Sure, almost no one reads the bios, but at least it's there, as a reference, if someone might be interested in the future.Most academics papers are never read by anyone, and the subject matter is almost certain never to interest anyone neither.

As a PhD student I supremely object to this statement and it's totally incorrect

Interesting sure, but not more important

 

[BenchBrawl]

As a PhD student I supremely object to this statement and it's totally incorrect

LOL come on.You gotta be kidding me.I know so many mathematicians who basically didn't like research, but they found that out during the Ph.D, so they might as well finish it, then write their paper, hate it, only one person reads it, their Ph.D advisor, then they quit the field to go work in industry.

And that's mathematics, not some batshit insane imaginary field.

 

[ResilientBeast]

LOL come on.You gotta be kidding me.I know so many mathematicians who basically didn't like research, but they found that out during the Ph.D, so they might as well finish it, then write their paper, hate it, only one person reads it, their Ph.D advisor, then they quit the field to go work in industry.

And that's mathematics, not some bat**** insane imaginary field.

Don't inflate the "importance" of what we're doing

Interest is completely separate from importance, this is a fun hobby the world of academia is on a different stratosphere

 

[BenchBrawl]

Don't inflate the "importance" of what we're doing

Interest is completely separate from importance, this a fun hobby the world of academia is on a different stratosphere

The importance of academia from the last few decades is also insanely inflated.

I believe academia is important as an institution, I'm not anti-intellectual.But to say 50% of academic papers are important is... extremely generous.

 

[ResilientBeast]

The importance of academia from the last few decades is also insanely inflated.

I believe academia is important as an institution, I'm not anti-intellectual.But to say 50% of academic papers are important is... extremely generous.

To say anything we've done on this little sub-forum is more important than anything produced by academia is far more generous

 

[BenchBrawl]

To say anything we've done on this little sub-forum is more important than anything produced by academia is far more generous

This seems like a 100% sure thing that what we've done here is more important than many things produced by academia.

Let's start with all the insane feminist papers, or that food guy from Cornell whose studies were basically all made up for marketing purposes.That's just on top of my head, I'm not following what goes on in academia.

 

[ResilientBeast]

This seems like a 100% sure thing that what we've done here is more important than many things produced by academia.

Let's start with all the insane feminist papers, or that food guy from Cornell whose studies were basically all made up to marketing purposes.

I fundamentally disagree with this statement, I'm not going to defend the fields you've suggested as failures in academia.

We can agree to disagree

 

[BenchBrawl]

I fundamentally disagree with this statement, I'm not going to defend the fields you've suggested as failures in academia.

We can agree to disagree

If I take what you said literally, you meant that EVERYTHING produced by academia, ever, was more valuable than our hockey history research.That's insane to be honest.

I agree a lot of things produced by academia is more rigorous and important than what we do here.But that's only because we don't push our projects far enough.If we did, then it would be "history" like any other.

 

[ResilientBeast]

If I take what you said literally, you meant that EVERYTHING produced by academia, ever, was more valuable than our hockey history research.That's insane to be honest.

I agree a lot of things produced by academia is more rigorous and important than what we do here.But that's only because we don't push our projects far enough.If we did, then it would be "history" like any other.

I just fundamentally do not compare the work I put into bios against my thesis topic

This is a fun hobby and to consider it much more I think is inflating the importance of researching old hockey players. Sure if there was more rigor and less conjecture like the entirety of the ATD we could approach history.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I just fundamentally do not compare the work I put into bios against my thesis topic

This is a fun hobby and to consider it much more I think is inflating the importance of researching old hockey players.

Well, if you did a biography and spent 5 years of hard work on it, wouldn't that be roughly equivalent, ignoring that some fields are much tougher than others?

Obviously it's just a hobby.I'm not inflating the importance of what we do, I'm saying academia's importance is inflated, but contrary to us they are paid by money from plumbers who break their backs fixing pipes.

Way back, even fields like mathematics were often done by amateurs.

 

[ImporterExporter]

As a PhD student I supremely object to this statement and it's totally incorrect

Interesting sure, but not more important

This is very relative.

I finished up my Masters not long ago (almost entirely online while my undergraduate degree was a mixture of online and campus studies) and I can honestly say I gained more worldly knowledge from my time serving in the US Air Force (saw a lot of the world and did 5 combat tours) as a 19 to 23 year old. You can't replace real world experience as a young adult.

Schooling, IMO can be a great tool in terms of gathering experience handling multiple workloads and timelines related to said workloads but until you actually go out into the real world and apply what you've learned in a meaningful manner, it really is pointless knowledge. I absolutely stand by that assertion.

I have a massive problem with how academia has tried to force it's "views" on the student bodies around the developed world and put their noses up at those who may not have obtained the same level of "knowledge". Colleges/University used to be a place of open dialogue and the further we go, the further left the doctrine and studies become. I tend to be very liberal when it comes to social matters. Financially I slant rightward. But that's just a general overview. But I do have a very big problem with the cost associated with higher education and the watering down and one way street that the education seems to be going down these days. It's getting harder and harder to find places where difference of opinion is openly celebrated and preached.

I had, during my undergraduate studies not one, but two professors drop a letter grade on me because, and I quote from the one "I can't possibly understand how you view the baby boomer generation (the prof is a baby boomer) with such cynicism". Basically, I wrote a 10+ page paper on how the baby boomer generation was the true me-first and entitled generation in the US and have fueled out of control financial crisis', among other disasters.....

 

[BenchBrawl]

Anyway @ResilientBeast I wasn't trying to shit on you or your thesis work, as long as you enjoy it and you think it's useful it doesn't matter whether academia is X or Y.If it provides you with the means to do what you want, good for you.

 

[tinyzombies]

Did vsx adjust for the disparity in the quality from the top two teams to the rest in the 50s. Reading a book where Dick Irvin is going on about that and how bad teams other than Montreal and Detroit were.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Did vsx adjust for the disparity in the quality from the top two teams to the rest in the 50s. Reading a book where Dick Irvin is going on about that and how bad teams other than Montreal and Detroit were.

There is an adjustment that Sturminator called the “Bathgate rule” which IIRC had to do with him being on an island results-wise between higher scorers on stronger teams, and the actual pack (I could be wrong).
The only dominant team to truly break the tables to a problematic degree is, surprisingly the 70s Bruins, and they have their own ad hoc adjustment.

In the end though, VsX can’t and shouldn’t adjust for every little mitigating factor. Any analysis of the scoring leaderboards over time has to end with your own critical thought, and I personally think that the metric’s greatest strength is that it isn’t an “adjusted stat” at its basic level - it’s an expression of the relation between two real numbers.

 

[ImporterExporter]

My goodness the main boards are still a cesspool.

 

[tinyzombies]

The idea of streamlining profiles sounds like a good one.

I would suggest including an ATD debate category to the profiles. Because there is a goldmine of information just from you guys comparing sources, but it's all over the place.

 

[ResilientBeast]

The idea of streamlining profiles sounds like a good one.

I would suggest including an ATD debate category to the profiles. Because there is a goldmine of information just from you guys comparing sources, but it's all over the place.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean?

 

[tinyzombies]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean?

Have rules for profiles like you guys were talking about here, but add the ATD debates to each category (defense, etc.), drawn from the different threads.