Around the NHL XXXVII

[Nac Mac Feegle]

lol, I like that "dwinger." should make that an official position in hockey.

 

[starling]

I thought the term was "offenseman" back from EK65 years.

 

[Fandlauer]

Both rocking the teal. Alfie to SJ front office confirmed?

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Dzingel goes to Carolina for 2 yrs

Guessing it is similar to Marcus Johanssons deal and I am guessing he will not earn as much over the next 5 yrs as we offered him

 

[Boud]

Dzingel goes to Carolina for 2 yrs

Guessing it is similar to Marcus Johanssons deal and I am guessing he will not earn as much over the next 5 yrs as we offered him

Sucks he didn't want to come back here for that price but not surprising, Canes have a better team.

 

[BonkTastic]

Dzingel is getting about an extra $400k in Carolina per year at that salary than he would have in Ottawa based on state & provincial taxes.

Our comparative offer would have had to have been $7.5 mil over the two years.

Still a bargain, but just attributing some hard numbers to that salary - for the sake of comparison.

 

[Blotto71]

Dzingel is getting about an extra $400k in Carolina per year at that salary than he would have in Ottawa based on state & provincial taxes.

Our comparative offer would have had to have been $7.5 mil over the two years.

Still a bargain, but just attributing some hard numbers to that salary - for the sake of comparison.

Think we will ever see a scenario where a team's cap floor/ceiling numbers are reflective of the local tax situation?

 

[SPF6ty9]

Think we will ever see a scenario where a team's cap floor/ceiling numbers are reflective of the local tax situation?

I think it's certainly possible, but an adjustment for taxes would be incredibly complicated, convoluted, and difficult. Since players are on the hook for jurisdictions in which they play; that is going to be one big calculation over the course of the year particularly if it had to be done player by player. There was the Andrew McCutcheon pay stub a few years back that kind of showed a glimpse of this:

Andrew McCutchen's pay stub includes lots of taxes

You also need to consider tax law is not static and things would change over time, which runs the risk it would become a large incomprehensible mess that would make managing and understanding your cap that much more challenging.

The only scenario I could think of that may work, is:
1. Take the prior year's taxation rate in every jurisdiction (benefits and specific jurisdiction taxes could make this step fairly complicated).
2. Weighted average it out based on the team's schedule in the coming year.
3. Compare these numbers against the other teams in the league in an index.
4. Multiply the salary cap value per team by this index value to determine each teams tax adjusted cap.

Now would this ever get implemented? Well the big market teams in high tax markets like Toronto would love it. The small market teams in high tax markets, like us, may not. And by that I mean Melnyk won't if it effects the cap floor and requires additional spending at these higher tax rates. But sure, it's an interesting scenario and with the actual cap number not available until before the offseason it may not be as challenging to pull off as it may seem from the outside.

 

[BonkTastic]

Think we will ever see a scenario where a team's cap floor/ceiling numbers are reflective of the local tax situation?

No, because the owners won't ever agree among themselves enough on this yo be able to present a cohesive plan to the NHLPA during CBA negotiations.

Teams like Dallas, Tampa and Nashville will fight tooth and nail to keep their advantage.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Okay.

If we equalize against taxes, I want teams in colder climates to also receive additional draft compensation based on the weather each year. Florida has an unfair advantage because they are sunny. Lots of players don't want to go to cold cities. That's unfair.

I also think the Islanders deserve compensation from the other 30 teams because their arena situation makes it more difficult for them to retain or attract talent.

I would also hope that for every player like Tavares who admits it was their dream to play for the Leafs, that Toronto has to give up some sort of compensation. They have a huge advantage because they have 100 years of history that influences players. A team like Vegas or Carolina doesn't have nearly the amount of home grown talent who are willing to either take discounts or choose them over other teams.

Point being, every team has advantages and disadvantages when it comes to attracting players. Not everything can or should be equalized against.

 

[SPF6ty9]

Okay.

If we equalize against taxes, I want teams in colder climates to also receive additional draft compensation based on the weather each year. Florida has an unfair advantage because they are sunny. Lots of players don't want to go to cold cities. That's unfair.

I also think the Islanders deserve compensation from the other 30 teams because their arena situation makes it more difficult for them to retain or attract talent.

I would also hope that for every player like Tavares who admits it was their dream to play for the Leafs, that Toronto has to give up some sort of compensation. They have a huge advantage because they have 100 years of history that influences players. A team like Vegas or Carolina doesn't have nearly the amount of home grown talent who are willing to either take discounts or choose them over other teams.

Point being, every team has advantages and disadvantages when it comes to attracting players. Not everything can or should be equalized against.

I agree that every location has its advantages. Taxes are just unique in that they're purely financial and you can actually quantify it reasonable well. They also effect everyone in the same way whereas some players may have a location preference unique to them. If someone wants to play near their family, or in a hot climate, then that's their choice that they've earned when they hit free agency. It's just weird that a player could ask for a $7M per year salary from one team and $9M from another in order to have the same take home pay; this directly effects salary cap parity.

But until there's actually a good solution, then there's not much point discussing it. Like Bonk said, no way will many teams want to venture from the status quo. There's a lot of hurdles for such a change.

 

[Boud]

I agree that every location has its advantages. Taxes are just unique in that they're purely financial and you can actually quantify it reasonable well. They also effect everyone in the same way whereas some players may have a location preference unique to them. If someone wants to play near their family, or in a hot climate, then that's their choice that they've earned when they hit free agency. It's just weird that a player could ask for a $7M per year salary from one team and $9M from another in order to have the same take home pay; this directly effects salary cap parity.

But until there's actually a good solution, then there's not much point discussing it. Like Bonk said, no way will many teams want to venture from the status quo. There's a lot of hurdles for such a change.

I don't want to get in a massive conversation about taxes but I'm an accountant and I can tell you players can get out by paying minimal taxes in Canada. Teams have financial plans for players designed for just that. It's nothing new and it's been around forever. If a player wants to play in Canada he'll be able to do just that and won't lose much.

There's also the fact that player salaries are in USD. For teams, that is in fact crippling because revenues are in CAD and you're dishing out an extra 35% in salary but for players... They are getting paid at approx. 1.35 rate and spend at 1.00. For the players their money goes further in Canada than it does in the US. That in itself is an advantage that's never ever talked about, yet that's extremely valuable for any individual.

 

[Blotto71]

I don't want to get in a massive conversation about taxes but I'm an accountant and I can tell you players can get out by paying minimal taxes in Canada. Teams have financial plans for players designed for just that. It's nothing new and it's been around forever. If a player wants to play in Canada he'll be able to do just that and won't lose much.

There's also the fact that player salaries are in USD. For teams, that is in fact crippling because revenues are in CAD and you're dishing out an extra 35% in salary but for players... They are getting paid at approx. 1.35 rate and spend at 1.00. For the players their money goes further in Canada than it does in the US. That in itself is an advantage that's never ever talked about, yet that's extremely valuable for any individual.

I am not an accountant, so appreciate any insight individuals such as yourself offer - far more constructive than "let's demand the weather be changed too, harrump!"

I only raise the issue because there has been so much conversation around attracting/retaining stars. That conversation is prefaced by the need for a new owner, of course, but it remains. If, as you say, a player can avoid taxes (something that I have a problem with on an entirely different kevel), and an owner in Ottawa (for example) can afford the "signing" bonuses that are so prevalent in today's contracts, then there is no financial reason for a player not to take similar money (similar because I cannot imagine that they can escape ALL taxes, and so there would remain some premium) that they would get in Florida and play somewhere like Ottawa.

 

[Boud]

I am not an accountant, so appreciate any insight individuals such as yourself offer - far more constructive than "let's demand the weather be changed too, harrump!"

I only raise the issue because there has been so much conversation around attracting/retaining stars. That conversation is prefaced by the need for a new owner, of course, but it remains. If, as you say, a player can avoid taxes (something that I have a problem with on an entirely different kevel), and an owner in Ottawa (for example) can afford the "signing" bonuses that are so prevalent in today's contracts, then there is no financial reason for a player not to take similar money (similar because I cannot imagine that they can escape ALL taxes, and so there would remain some premium) that they would get in Florida and play somewhere like Ottawa.

From my point of view that's accurate. As you say there is definitely a difference, but it is 100% overstated, especially on HFBoards since most people do not understand finances to that level.

If a player refuses to sign a contract in Canada, it should NOT be because of taxes. I can think of a million reasons why I would rather go to San Jose than Winnipeg, but money isn't one.

 

[Masked]

There's also the fact that player salaries are in USD. For teams, that is in fact crippling because revenues are in CAD and you're dishing out an extra 35% in salary but for players... They are getting paid at approx. 1.35 rate and spend at 1.00. For the players their money goes further in Canada than it does in the US. That in itself is an advantage that's never ever talked about, yet that's extremely valuable for any individual.

It doesn't matter what currency revenues are in because generally Canadian prices are equal or higher than US prices when adjusted for currency exchange. The same is true for cost of living. A car is not the same price in Canadian dollars in Canada as it is in US dollars in the US.

The cost of living depends more upon the market than the country. New York is a more expensive city to live in than Ottawa while Vancouver is a more expensive city to live in than Phoenix.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Going to wait and see how this pans out.

#hammond

https://www.tsn.ca/st-louis-blues-goaltender-jordan-binnington-agree-to-2-year-8-8m-deal-1.1337041

 

[Deku]

Going to wait and see how this pans out.

#hammond

https://www.tsn.ca/st-louis-blues-goaltender-jordan-binnington-agree-to-2-year-8-8m-deal-1.1337041

He was... a little bit more impressive than Hammond

I find it funny that he is making slightly less than Mikko Koskinen

 

[Larionov]

I don't want to get in a massive conversation about taxes but I'm an accountant and I can tell you players can get out by paying minimal taxes in Canada. Teams have financial plans for players designed for just that. It's nothing new and it's been around forever. If a player wants to play in Canada he'll be able to do just that and won't lose much.

There's also the fact that player salaries are in USD. For teams, that is in fact crippling because revenues are in CAD and you're dishing out an extra 35% in salary but for players... They are getting paid at approx. 1.35 rate and spend at 1.00. For the players their money goes further in Canada than it does in the US. That in itself is an advantage that's never ever talked about, yet that's extremely valuable for any individual.

Yes, my understanding is that a good accountant can whittle the tax difference between cities for a player down to the low single digits. There is a myth out there, propagated by fans and media, that guys are paying the full marginal rate in their local jurisdiction on their money every year. It's not quite that simple - these guys all have financial planners. Rather, I think the weather is a huge driver, as is less hassle and pressure playing in an American city.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Going to wait and see how this pans out.

#hammond

https://www.tsn.ca/st-louis-blues-goaltender-jordan-binnington-agree-to-2-year-8-8m-deal-1.1337041

I like it. It's basically a show-me deal with a Stanley Cup-winning bonus attached to it.

If the kid is legit, he's going to make a ton of money in UFA. If not, he still takes home an extra $5 million or so for helping give St Louis a Cup.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Didn't want to make a thread for this just yet, but is there a solid 12-16 of you who would be down to have a fantasy league for the upcoming season? PM me if you're interested we can set something up on Yahoo sports maybe even have a fun wager to go along with.

 

[BonkTastic]

In "Former Sens" news, Chris Wideman signed a 1-year 2-way deal with Anaheim.

At first I was surprised to see he didn't just bail to Europe for a better paycheque since he couldn't find a 1-way deal in the NHL, but then saw he's getting a guaranteed $400k at the AHL level.

Probably his last real shot at the NHL level.

 

[Rand0m]

I haven’t read the whole threads regarding taxes but from my understanding (as a few others have mentioned) taxe rates for professional athletes aren’t as simple as just taking the marginal tax rate of the state/province they live in. I’m pretty sure players pay taxes on revenu earned in away games payable to the province or state they’re playing in while on the road.

Obviously, half the games are played at home so Florida players benefit a bit more for example, but it’s not like the difference is as significant and pronounced as a lot of reporters and posters seem to assume. I’m definitely not aware of all the intricacies of American tax laws but this is my understanding.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I haven’t read the whole threads regarding taxes but from my understanding (as a few others have mentioned) taxe rates for professional athletes aren’t as simple as just taking the marginal tax rate of the state/province they live in. I’m pretty sure players pay taxes on revenu earned in away games payable to the province or state they’re playing in while on the road.

Obviously, half the games are played at home so Florida players benefit a bit more for example, but it’s not like the difference is as significant and pronounced as a lot of reporters and posters seem to assume. I’m definitely not aware of all the intricacies of American tax laws but this is my understanding.

There is an entire forum for hockey business related questions.

I am sure you could find some clarity there

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Holy Stats

 

[JD1]

I haven’t read the whole threads regarding taxes but from my understanding (as a few others have mentioned) taxe rates for professional athletes aren’t as simple as just taking the marginal tax rate of the state/province they live in. I’m pretty sure players pay taxes on revenu earned in away games payable to the province or state they’re playing in while on the road.

Obviously, half the games are played at home so Florida players benefit a bit more for example, but it’s not like the difference is as significant and pronounced as a lot of reporters and posters seem to assume. I’m definitely not aware of all the intricacies of American tax laws but this is my understanding.

Players do pay taxes on income earned in away games. Google jock tax and research it from there.

There are a lot of factors at play and it's not as simple as the marginal tax rate in the city they plat