Around the League Thread | Post Free Agent Frenzy Edition

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Isles with a hell of a great signing
Oilers on the verge of a umm not so great signing. I like Nurse, but not at that price.

That number is getting higher...Nurse is really good, I wouldnt classify him as 'elite' though....which is what he's getting paid.

 

[MS]

Nurse is a hell of a lot better than Werenski so Edmonton doesn’t really have much of a choice here once that deal came through.

Probably should have gone long-term a couple years ago.

 

[F A N]

I've always thought that Darryl Sutter was a good coach..a crafty, crusty vet, who plays his cards pretty well..(his deadpan press conferences are hilarious)...I don't think that he's universally 'liked ' by his players though...

I thought that the Flames would kick it up a notch when Sutter was hired..but the team imploded...Marky was out for a bit, but on the whole, they were healthy.

It's hard to step in midseason especially in a season such as last one. The Flames are also not really built for Sutter hockey.

 

[MS]

That number is getting higher...Nurse is really good, I wouldnt classify him as 'elite' though....which is what he's getting paid.

Nurse was 4th in TOI, 2nd in goals, 2nd in ES points amongst defenders last year. 7th in Norris voting.

He hasn’t done it for multiple years but his performance last year absolutely was elite.

 

[timw33]

Worth mentioning that Nurse was bridged twice (2 years each time). Bridge deals aren't the worst thing in the world, look at the Pelech contract today, or the way Tampa Bay does business.

The Pelech contract is an exception to the wild market and is going to be a really good contract—would take him over Jones/Werenski/Nurse all day. Everything is being driven by counting stats and pedigree right now, without taking the full scope of their games into account.

Tampa gets away with bridging because they have a clear plan, a vision, and subsequently the players buy in. When you're a contender for like 4-5 years straight it's a lot easier to buy in to the system and get to play for one of the best teams in the modern era and still make some money on your bridge deal.

 

[timw33]

Nurse was 4th in TOI, 2nd in goals, 2nd in ES points amongst defenders last year. 7th in Norris voting.

He hasn’t done it for multiple years but his performance last year absolutely was elite.

Will be interesting to see how he does against the entire league instead of the 6 Canadian clubs, he shot more than double his career sh% last year.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

If the cap/salaries start rising again in the next few years, a lot of these deals will probably end up being regarded as steals. It's a bit of a rich price for Nurse at the moment (again, I think Jones kind of re-set the market after Heiskanen had set the ceiling), but guys like Heiskanen, Makar and Nurse are the guys you should be committing money and term to.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

If the cap/salaries start rising again in the next few years, a lot of these deals will probably end up being regarded as steals. It's a bit of a rich price for Nurse at the moment (again, I think Jones kind of re-set the market after Heiskanen had set the ceiling), but guys like Heiskanen, Makar and Nurse are the guys you should be committing money and term to.

I’d agree on Makar and Heiskanen. But that Nurse contract is beyond brutal. He’s getting paid on one good year in the North Division. He’s just not very good defensively and all the stats show that.


JFresh
@JFreshHockey
Darnell Nurse, signed 8x$9.25M by EDM, is an offensive D who scored a lot of goals this season but who has consistently surrendered quality scoring chances when on the ice. Don't think he's nearly as bad as the overall projection suggests, but this is a BIG number. #LetsGoOilers

11:10 AM · Aug 6, 2021
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[MS]

Will be interesting to see how he does against the entire league instead of the 6 Canadian clubs, he shot more than double his career sh% last year.

I mean, I doubt he'll score at the 24-goal pace he was on last year.

But I would expect he continues to do a good job as one of the biggest all-situation minute-eaters in the NHL, and his ES production in prior years was still excellent (~30 points/season). He's an excellent player and I'm a bit puzzled that people are so outraged by this contract. Once the horrible Werenski contract came through, Edmonton didn't really have much of a choice here.

I'd take him on this team on that contract in an absolute heartbeat.

 

[JT Milker]

He’s a bad defensive player. Would we give Hughes that deal?

 

[MS]

I’d agree on Makar and Heiskanen. But that Nurse contract is beyond brutal. He’s getting paid on one good year in the North Division. He’s just not very good defensively and all the stats show that.


JFresh
@JFreshHockey
Darnell Nurse, signed 8x$9.25M by EDM, is an offensive D who scored a lot of goals this season but who has consistently surrendered quality scoring chances when on the ice. Don't think he's nearly as bad as the overall projection suggests, but this is a BIG number. #LetsGoOilers

11:10 AM · Aug 6, 2021
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Yet another example of an absolutely horrible graph.

Played top-pairing minutes next to Ethan Bear and Tyson Barrie who both absolutely suck defensively and should have been nowhere near those roles, very often backing up the McDavid/Draisaitl line who pays little attention to defense. No kidding scoring chances happen.

He isn't as good offensively as that thing says and is nowhere near as poor defensively.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

That’s an overpayment
Like the player but Jesus

 

[VanillaCoke]

Will be interesting to see how he does against the entire league instead of the 6 Canadian clubs, he shot more than double his career sh% last year.

This.
I like nurse but he's a prime candidate for a step backwards.

 

[bertuzzi2bure]

Nurse is a hell of a lot better than Werenski so Edmonton doesn’t really have much of a choice here once that deal came through.

Probably should have gone long-term a couple years ago.

I like Werenski more

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Nurse was 4th in TOI, 2nd in goals, 2nd in ES points amongst defenders last year. 7th in Norris voting.

He hasn’t done it for multiple years but his performance last year absolutely was elite.

He also played alot with two of the best players in the world. One who had 105 points in 56 games. I like Nurse, but if you put any similar caliber player in that position they are going to produce.

 

[Vector]

That’s an overpayment
Like the player but Jesus

I think it's only an overpayment when viewed to a few years ago but now is the market when compared to his peers. I like Nurse quite a bit more than Jones and Werenski. Edmonton has also been absolute trash at acquiring and developing defenders recently. After losing Larsson they need to keep someone around and show McDavid and Draisaitl that they haven't lost the plot. The problem is this doesn't move the needle at all. Just maintains the status quo while depleting their cap space.

 

[mriswith]

Nurse looks worse in those charts than he is because they played him like 30 minutes a night for the last half of the season at times taking two minute shifts and he got eaten on the back half of those stupid long shifts. At some point last season Tippett lost confidence in the 3rd pairing and just ran the top 4 completely into the ground.

Bad team cap penalty is at work there - with a better team, he plays less minutes, scores less points, has a smaller role, and gets paid less. He probably gets at least 3M less if Klefbom were still around and he probably peaked offensively last season... but how are you going to argue against that contract when he's bridged twice and was leaned on like a #1D all season?

The takeaway should be don't bridge a guy twice and then force him into a #1D role for the first time in his contract year. There's no way to win that.

 

[MS]

He also played alot with two of the best players in the world. One who had 105 points in 56 games. I like Nurse, but if you put any similar caliber player in that position they are going to produce.

Absolutely. Which is what I said above.

He isn't the best goalscoring defender in the NHL and is helped there by his usage. That said, pretty much every top offensive defender gets stacked up behind skill players to maximize effectiveness and production. Hedman in TB is amazing ... but also gets an offensive bump from playing huge minutes with other amazing players.

But his defensive game is not represented accurately by that graph. He's out there with McDavid/Draisaitl playing pond hockey and Bear/Barrie as his weak partner, with the entire unit geared toward generating offense and outscoring the opposition. Scoring chances are going to happen the other way and it's a result of the context, not that Nurse is somehow one of the worst defensive defenders in the NHL.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Absolutely. Which is what I said above.

He isn't the best goalscoring defender in the NHL and is helped there by his usage. That said, pretty much every top offensive defender gets stacked up behind skill players to maximize effectiveness and production. Hedman in TB is amazing ... but also gets an offensive bump from playing huge minutes with other amazing players.

But his defensive game is not represented accurately by that graph. He's out there with McDavid/Draisaitl playing pond hockey and Bear/Barrie as his weak partner, with the entire unit geared toward generating offense and outscoring the opposition. Scoring chances are going to happen the other way and it's a result of the context, not that Nurse is somehow one of the worst defensive defenders in the NHL.

Don't worry I agree with you on those charts. Their lists for worst defensman are players that have to play top minutes for their team that get mediocre to bad results playing that role. When your list has someone like Ivan Provorov who plays 25 min/game, has good defensive results in those minutes, and on a team that let in 40 ES goals in more than expected but he was only on the ice for 8 of them, that list is flawed.

 

[4Twenty]

Erik Karlsson is on $12m, Doughty $11m….none of these recent deals are outrageous and they’re actually cheaper than their similar cohorts on cap percentage from a decade ago.

I get thinking the market was capped at a ceiling but the only ceiling for a player is 20% of the upper limit. The best players are getting squeezed and I have no problem with them going for all they can get. In reality they should be getting more of the pie but teams keep spending on Poolman’s and Beagle’s.

 

[Intangibos]

IMO - the way he plays right now is just a more talented Matt Cooke. At some point, teammates become frustrated fighting your battles for you, as we’ve seen.

He has the talent to be an incredible player without the stupid antics. He just doesn’t want to do it.

I see him playing more like a Burrows. I think he plays on the edge but I don't think he's making stupid dirty shots that make your stars a target for headhunters either. Maybe from time to time he crosses it, but I see him more as an agitator than a dirty player.

Interestingly, I've never seen Boston tell Marchand they're tired of dealing with him.

 

[StreetHawk]

Erik Karlsson is on $12m, Doughty $11m….none of these recent deals are outrageous and they’re actually cheaper than their similar cohorts on cap percentage from a decade ago.

I get thinking the market was capped at a ceiling but the only ceiling for a player is 20% of the upper limit. The best players are getting squeezed and I have no problem with them going for all they can get. In reality they should be getting more of the pie but teams keep spending on Poolman’s and Beagle’s.

Those 2 are on their ufa deals. Can compare the likes of Jones to them and werenski.
DD was at $7 mill on a lower cap when he got contract 2. EK under $7 mill on his prior deal.
Does the $2 mill or so more that Makar got work out to a similar percentage of the cap when DD got his second contract?

 

[F A N]

Nurse - Wow those contracts for Dmen have really skyrocketed this year. Flat cap = pay the defensemen.

From the Canucks perspective, with salary retention, OEL is now out of the top 20 Dmen in AAV.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Kinda surprised how fast Dman salaries have escalated this offseason but on the bright side, OEL's deal looks a little less painful moving forward.

 

[82Ninety42011]

In reality they should be getting more of the pie but teams keep spending on Poolman’s and Beagle’s.

Well considering Beagle probably has Pool-man now in Arizona he needed the funds .