Around the league: Playoffs III | No Canadian Teams Left in Playoffs...and nobody cares.

[Dab]

It's insane, because if Pavelski falls in a different way and doesn't conk his own noggin, that would not have been a minor penalty in a Jan/Feb let alone the 3rd period of a Game 7 in the playoffs. That said, imagine being Vegas' fans and seeing your team blowing a 3-1 series lead, as well as a 3-0 game seven lead... and then blaming it all on a single mistaken penalty call. C'mon guys...

To paraphrase the great Michael Jordan f*** them spoiled Vegas fans

 

[Dab]

I agree. Whether the Knights gave up 4 power play calls or not, that horrendous call completely changed the series and the league should be totally embarrassed. Before that call the Sharks had a 1.2% chance of winning that game and series.

LOL and it was probably a 3% chance at the start of the PP. for a team from vegas they sure blew the odds out of the water.

 

[Melvin]

Yeah, I don't even know why this is an issue. It was a questionable call, but you allowed 5 goals through the back half of the third period and OT. Get your **** together.

I really don't get how people are so blasé about this. Its like if we are racing and I am 100m from the finish line while you are 1000m behind me, and someone trips me. Like, yeah, I it's not right that I got tripped but I should still win the race pretty easily and if you somehow manage to turn on the Jets and beat me, that's still a remarkable feat for you.

Whining about getting tripped doeant really carry me very far.

 

[racerjoe]

I really don't get how people are so blasé about this. Its like if we are racing and I am 100m from the finish line while you are 1000m behind me, and someone trips me. Like, yeah, I it's not right that I got tripped but I should still win the race pretty easily and if you somehow manage to turn on the Jets and beat me, that's still a remarkable feat for you.

Whining about getting tripped doeant really carry me very far.

This actually happened in a marathon I believe in the Olympics. The problem is the racer who was tripped lost all of their momentum. It wasn't as simple as just getting back up and running at the same pace they were.

I just looked it up it has happened a couple times, once the guy did still win, but only once I saw from a quick google search.

Regardless in this metaphor, one runner loses all momentum and the other runner gets a five min cab ride to close that gap and in this case be rested for the stretch.

 

[Dab]

This actually happened in a marathon I believe in the Olympics. The problem is the racer who was tripped lost all of their momentum. It wasn't as simple as just getting back up and running at the same pace they were.

I just looked it up it has happened a couple times, once the guy did still win, but only once I saw from a quick google search.

Regardless in this metaphor, one runner loses all momentum and the other runner gets a five min cab ride to close that gap and in this case be rested for the stretch.

Sure you may lose some momentum but letting in 4 goals on a Pk is historical level futility. That’s a historic collapse.

 

[Melvin]

This actually happened in a marathon I believe in the Olympics. The problem is the racer who was tripped lost all of their momentum. It wasn't as simple as just getting back up and running at the same pace they were.

I just looked it up it has happened a couple times, once the guy did still win, but only once I saw from a quick google search.

Regardless in this metaphor, one runner loses all momentum and the other runner gets a five min cab ride to close that gap and in this case be rested for the stretch.

The analogy breaks down when you equate scoring 4 goals in five minutes to "getting a cab ride." if they had received four minors and went 4-for-4 nobody would act this way.

Like, getting tripped in a race happens from time to time, but five minute majors have been called hundreds of times. And the result is never four goals against. Like I said, the expected number of goals is probably between 0.8-1.2. That's the cost that you can attribute to the refs. The rest is all on the players.

I'll post the actual distribution and expected goals tonight.

 

[Melvin]

Honestly, there is a good analogy to be made between the unexpected result of Pavelski getting injured on a pretty nothing play and the unexpected result of four goals getting scored on one power play.

In both cases, the result and consequence is far out of line from what you would have expected given the initial event.

If you think it's crazy to blame Eakin for the freak incident of Pavelski getting injured from his actions, then it's equally crazy to blame the refs for the once in a lifetime event of four goals getting score on a major penalty.

 

[GetFocht]

Impressed with SJ PP, see how Karlsson skated the puck in at the line and set up shop rather than doing a back pass? Resulted in puck possession in the offensive zone and 3 goals.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Impressed with SJ PP, see how Karlsson skated the puck in at the line and set up shop rather than doing a back pass? Resulted in puck possession in the offensive zone and 3 goals.

I was not overly impressed with Karlsson throughout most of the series, but last night, he kicked it up a notch..quite amazing.

 

[tantalum]

I was not overly impressed with Karlsson throughout most of the series, but last night, he kicked it up a notch..quite amazing.

He's playing hurt and even last night he was unable to catch guys he would normally catch. And getting caught up when normally he wouldn't be. That said, even at much less than 100% he had a heck of a game.


the drop pass....There is nothing wrong with the drop pass being used to gain entry on the PP. In fact if you actually execute, it pretty much guarantees entry as the defense has to back in respecting the initial puck carrier and his passing options on the wing. The issue is that the players have really just become lazy with it. They make the drop pass having not backed the defense off which has the effect of (a) not creating space for the new puck carrier to gain the zone and (b) the 4 guys now ahead of the play have to stand still so you also lose the passing options. Or they drop it to a guy who doesn't have a full head of steam which allows the defense to adjust and play it like any other entry.

 

[racerjoe]

The analogy breaks down when you equate scoring 4 goals in five minutes to "getting a cab ride." if they had received four minors and went 4-for-4 nobody would act this way.

Like, getting tripped in a race happens from time to time, but five minute majors have been called hundreds of times. And the result is never four goals against. Like I said, the expected number of goals is probably between 0.8-1.2. That's the cost that you can attribute to the refs. The rest is all on the players.

I'll post the actual distribution and expected goals tonight.

I like the stats and analytics, but I don't see this fitting that.

I do think it was a small chance for them to score four goals, hell if you look at the replay on them most were pretty flukey goals.

What I do think is that this was a huge momentum changer. No penalty or even a 2 min minor and I don't think we get the same result at all. I actually think if that first goal doesn't go in so quick, we also wouldn't get the same result, or if VGK had home ice.

I do think when we stack all the events on top of them, we get what happened. There was an event that incited them, it started the chain reaction and now we have what we have.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

He's playing hurt and even last night he was unable to catch guys he would normally catch. And getting caught up when normally he wouldn't be. That said, even at much less than 100% he had a heck of a game.

He was good...In saying that though,I'm very leery about the Canucks making a pitch to sign him..He looks like he's deteriorated considerably.

Same goes for other big ticket signings (Myers..6-7x$7)..not good.

 

[Melvin]

I like the stats and analytics, but I don't see this fitting that.

I do think it was a small chance for them to score four goals, hell if you look at the replay on them most were pretty flukey goals.

What I do think is that this was a huge momentum changer. No penalty or even a 2 min minor and I don't think we get the same result at all. I actually think if that first goal doesn't go in so quick, we also wouldn't get the same result, or if VGK had home ice.

I do think when we stack all the events on top of them, we get what happened. There was an event that incited them, it started the chain reaction and now we have what we have.

I mean as for "momentum" being damaged, Vegas still scored a goal after.

It's absurd to blame the refs for four goals getting scored on a PP. Yeah, they opened the door, but that doesn't mean it's their fault that someone ripped the door off its hinges, smashed it into pieces and burned them. What happened was not some inevitable consequence. It was a crazy, crazy thing.

Literally zero people, at the time the penalty was called, said "welp, I guess San Jose will score four goals and take the lead here." this is not a thing that happens.

 

[tantalum]

He was good...In saying that though,I'm very leery about the Canucks making a pitch to sign him..He looks like he's deteriorated considerably.

Same goes for other big ticket signings (Myers..6-7x$7)..not good.

Agreed. His recent injury history is a major concern. Not just because you expect more injuries as he ages but because the injuries he is getting have a direct effect on his bread and butter (skating ability).

Myers never reached a level where he can be said to be looking like he has deteriorated considerably. He has never been very good and anything beyond a 5 x $5 mil deal will be a gross overpayment. So basically a gross overpayment is all but a guarantee.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Toronto,Calgary,LV,Winnipeg,TBL,Pittsburgh.. all out..I'm pleased..Just need to get the Bruins eliminated, and I'll be happy with whomever wins the cup.

 

[Canuckle1970]

That 3rd period was amazing. At 3-0 with 10 minutes to go, I was almost ready to tune out the game, happy that the Sharks were going out. And then that face-off. Should have been a minor penalty at worst.

Have to give Sharks credit - they pounced on it - took 6 seconds to score the 1st goal, and they were on their way, fueled by the emotion of Pavelski's injury. Glad Vegas got it to o/t, so they had a chance to win it. Emotion - can hurt and help.

GO AVS!

 

[tantalum]

I mean as for "momentum" being damaged, Vegas still scored a goal after.

It's absurd to blame the refs for four goals getting scored on a PP. Yeah, they opened the door, but that doesn't mean it's their fault that someone ripped the door off its hinges, smashed it into pieces and burned them. What happened was not some inevitable consequence. It was a crazy, crazy thing.

I think when you add in the factors it's more than "well they shouldn't allow that many goals". No they shouldn't. But factor in a long series, a physical series, a game 6 double OT and the guy getting sent off is not just a major part of the your top 9 but also a PKing forward on the team...

And now factor in how the call came about. Neither ref was making a call. The linesman that dropped the puck was no longer facing the play. The other linesman can't possibly have a clear view of what happened (unless all of a sudden a light cross check to the shoulder and chest area is considered a must call). They made the call up based on what they thought happened. Not what they actually saw happen. That's the issue. That's why it's embarrassing and why the whole series of events never should have started in the first place. And that's important regardless of what Vegas did or did not do. It was a massive mistake by an entire officiating crew at a crucial time. Not a small issue of a phantom tripping call but about as big of a mistake that can be made.

This wasn't a borderline call that was legitimately seen by an official as a 2 or possible 5. This was a completely made up 5 minute major call which is akin to attempt to injure. A call and misconduct that I can all but guarantee would get rescinded by the NHL IF Vegas had pulled out the win. Because Vegas didn't win they will try to sweep it under the carpet.

I think what makes it even worse is not just the vegas loss but that they legitimately let honest to goodness dangerous play go and made up a call on a play they didn't see (Fleury getting run in OT not much before the winning goal was scored. I wonder how much just getting run on a similar play messes with his head on the winner?).

 

[Melvin]

I think when you add in the factors it's more than "well they shouldn't allow that many goals". No they shouldn't. But factor in a long series, a physical series, a game 6 double OT and the guy getting sent off is not just a major part of the your top 9 but also a PKing forward on the team...

And now factor in how the call came about. Neither ref was making a call. The linesman that dropped the puck was no longer facing the play. The other linesman can't possibly have a clear view of what happened (unless all of a sudden a light cross check to the shoulder and chest area is considered a must call). They made the call up based on what they thought happened. Not what they actually saw happen. That's the issue. That's why it's embarrassing and why the whole series of events never should have started in the first place. And that's important regardless of what Vegas did or did not do. It was a massive mistake by an entire officiating crew at a crucial time. Not a small issue of a phantom tripping call but about as big of a mistake that can be made.

This wasn't a borderline call that was legitimately seen by an official as a 2 or possible 5. This was a completely made up 5 minute major call which is akin to attempt to injure. A call and misconduct that I can all but guarantee would get rescinded by the NHL IF Vegas had pulled out the win. Because Vegas didn't win they will try to sweep it under the carpet.

I think what makes it even worse is not just the vegas loss but that they legitimately let honest to goodness dangerous play go and made up a call on a play they didn't see (Fleury getting run in OT not much before the winning goal was scored. I wonder how much just getting run on a similar play plays with his head on the winner?).

Of course it's not so simple as "they shouldn't allow four goals." it's never thst simple. Guess what? It's also not as simple as "the refs cost them the game!" that's my point. Nuance. Variety of factors.

 

[tantalum]

Of course it's not so simple as "they shouldn't allow four goals." it's never thst simple. Guess what? It's also not as simple as "the refs cost them the game!" that's my point. Nuance. Variety of factors.

I just think this goes well beyond "oops the refs screwed up" or "they missed that call but made this other one!" which is what people normally complain about. This, IMO, truly was a situation where you you have to actively wonder if the NHL should be sitting that crew for the rest of the playoffs. It was that bad of a call. I do believe it was a made up call because a player appeared to be unconscious. They created a penalty call to match the aftermath.

 

[Krnuckfan]

Vegas got robbed. If that happened to the canucks I seriously think I'd give up on the NHL and stop following the team. Absolute joke the refs awarded a major penalty based on something they didn't even see happen.

 

[Melvin]

I just think this goes well beyond "oops the refs screwed up" or "they missed that call but made this other one!" which is what people normally complain about. This, IMO, truly was a situation where you you have to actively wonder if the NHL should be sitting that crew for the rest of the playoffs. It was that bad of a call. I do believe it was a made up call because a player appeared to be unconscious. They created a penalty call to match the aftermath.

Would you feel the same way if Vegas had killed the penalty?

 

[Zippgunn]

Why? My view of it was different. I thought it was an unnecessarily dirty play that resulted in a star playing being horrifically injured.

I agree. I feel that this play was far worse than the one where Elias got head slammed into the ice which, as we all know, resulted in a suspension. Always ask yourself: what would I think if this was against a Canuck player? What if it were Elias Pettersson instead of Pavelski? I know and you know that everybody on this board would be calling it the right call...

 

[Josepho]

That exact play happens 20 times every game.

 

[Melvin]

That exact play happens 20 times every game.

Nobody disputes that it was a bad call. That is neither here nor there for this discussion.

 

[Ryp37]

what a pick Labanc was

f***ing san jose and their sustained success