Around Hockey XIX (All Non-Jackets Hockey talk in here)

[DarkandStormy]

18 OT first-round games...no series went 7.

Hawks, Wild, CBJ, Sharks, Canadiens....all eliminated.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I did one of those NHL: bracket challenge things - I hate them but a buddy was doing a group.

I got a full 2 of 8 first-round series correct. Apparently, and this will come as no surprise to people who've had to read my posts for years here, I know very little about hockey.

 

[EspenK]

18 OT first-round games...no series went 7.

Hawks, Wild, CBJ, Sharks, Canadiens....all eliminated.

Sharks eliminated by Edmonton...someone please tell me again why draft position doesn't really matter.

 

[Viqsi]

Sharks eliminated by Edmonton...someone please tell me again why draft position doesn't really matter.

Because Connor McDavids are vanishingly rare and you can't assume that you'll get one just by deciding you're going to fail this year.

 

[CBJx614]

Because Connor McDavids are vanishingly rare and you can't assume that you'll get one just by deciding you're going to fail this year.

You'd think 2012 would be evidence enough for people.

 

[EspenK]

Because Connor McDavids are vanishingly rare and you can't assume that you'll get one just by deciding you're going to fail this year.

I knew someone would come through. Continue to live in bliss.

 

[EspenK]

You'd think 2012 would be evidence enough for people.

Not every draft has a sure shot #1 but wouldn't we rather have McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon, Seguin (assuming we were smarter than Edmonton) Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin,Tavares than the guy we took?

That's 8 out of 12 #1's who seem to disprove the vanishingly rare concept.

And not to mention guys like Eichel & Malkin among other #2's who would have made a nice pick.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Not every draft has a sure shot #1 but wouldn't we rather have McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon, Seguin (assuming we were smarter than Edmonton) Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin,Tavares than the guy we took?

That's 8 out of 12 #1's who seem to disprove the vanishingly rare concept.

And not to mention guys like Eichel & Malkin among other #2's who would have made a nice pick.

I've disagreed with you on this subject in the past, while I hardly consider my thoughts on the subject settled.

But I'm going to ask at this point, what's to be done about it? The team finished third in points this season and once again we're faced with the hope/possibility/likelihood? that the team is primed for repeat appearances in the playoffs. (A position I have admittedly argued against.) But should we start hoping the team finishes at the bottom of the league for the next couple seasons?

 

[EspenK]

I've disagreed with you on this subject in the past, while I hardly consider my thoughts on the subject settled.

But I'm going to ask at this point, what's to be done about it? The team finished third in points this season and once again we're faced with the hope/possibility/likelihood? that the team is primed for repeat appearances in the playoffs. (A position I have admittedly argued against.) But should we start hoping the team finishes at the bottom of the league for the next couple seasons?

No. But when (if) we do, I hope we finish as low as possible. I've never advocated tanking but I've never actively hoped they'd finish 15-1-1 to lessen the chance of a top pick. Now, I think we're in no man's land where we probably won't finish bottom 3 or 4 but I don't see us challenging for the Cup anytime soon. Time for the scouts & Jarmo to earn their keep.

My only point was/is that picking 1st gives you a much better chance of getting the game changer.

Some will disagree but as good as Werenski appears to be I would still have preferred McDavid.

 

[Viqsi]

I knew someone would come through. Continue to live in bliss.

Hmm. We had three All-Stars this year plus a Calder finalist. When were they drafted again?

Oh yeah. #4 overall, #8 overall, #157 overall, and Undrafted Free Agent.

* * *​

Some will disagree but as good as Werenski appears to be I would still have preferred Matthews.

You say that as though there was ever a choice between the two.

And DO NOT ****ING START with "we could have traded..." No. We could not have. The Maple Leafs were blind, deaf, and dumb to anything that even distantly resembled "trade the 1st overall" as soon as the lottery results were announced.

Seriously. This has never been a quest for "we need an elite player" and always about "we need a HYPED player that lives up to it". It is "Rick Nash broke our hearts as 1st overall and we want a do-over."

 

[Monk]

Is someone in here lamenting the fact that the Jackets weren't worse over the years?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

No.

Exactly.

 

[db2011]

Sharks eliminated by Edmonton...someone please tell me again why draft position doesn't really matter.

Wait, are you using the Edmonton Oilers to support an argument for draft position?

 

[Monk]

Wait, are you using the Edmonton Oilers to support an argument for draft position?

It's less about draft position and more about luck, to me. But to write off draft position entirely isn't right, either.

"It is one of the biggest dates on the NHL calendar — the draft lottery.

To be held Saturday in Toronto, it’s become arguably the greatest influence on the NHL standings. Good or bad, look at the effect its had on Arizona, Buffalo, Edmonton, Toronto and Vancouver."

-Elliotte Friedman an hour ago

The problem for the CBJ is mostly just bad luck imo.

 

[EspenK]

Wait, are you using the Edmonton Oilers to support an argument for draft position?

well...yes. Without Connor McDavid I don't see them in the playoffs much less winning a series.. Last couple of picks haven't been bad.

 

[Cash for Nash]

Not every draft has a sure shot #1 but wouldn't we rather have McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon, Seguin (assuming we were smarter than Edmonton) Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin,Tavares than the guy we took?

That's 8 out of 12 #1's who seem to disprove the vanishingly rare concept.

And not to mention guys like Eichel & Malkin among other #2's who would have made a nice pick.

Or Laine as a #2 pick smh. Amazing how we finally wins lottery but it's for the 3rd pick who is seemingly no where close to Matthews, Laine

And the 2012 draft smh, what a disaster. The one crummy draft where we held a top pick. Sandwiched between great drafts with generational players where we were in no position to draft them.

 

[CBJx614]

It's less about draft position and more about luck, to me. But to write off draft position entirely isn't right, either.

"It is one of the biggest dates on the NHL calendar — the draft lottery.

To be held Saturday in Toronto, it’s become arguably the greatest influence on the NHL standings. Good or bad, look at the effect its had on Arizona, Buffalo, Edmonton, Toronto and Vancouver."

-Elliotte Friedman an hour ago

The problem for the CBJ is mostly just bad luck imo.

Our drafting hasn't been bad, our luck in the lottery has. If I remember right we were like a ball away from getting one of Connor or Matthews.

As far as the draft goes, Jackets are pretty solid in drafting over the 7-8+ seasons.

Jenner, cam, Wennberg, Bjorkstrand, Calvert, Dano, Sedlak, Anderson, Johansen, Werenski, Murray, Savard, Nuutivara, Dubois(tbd), Carlsson(tbd)


9 nhl quality forwards, 4 nhl dmen(5 if you wanna count Prout) and I'm sure I'm missing a few players. I'm talking about players who made the NHL on our roster and then traded away.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Our drafting hasn't been bad

Once xGMGM left and Howson started to figure things out, sure.

 

[Speedy Sanderson]

So Porty tweeted that LeBrun and Burnside are out at ESPN. Looks like they've totally thrown-in the towel on NHL coverage at that sinking ship.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Howson drafted well, Jarmo has drafted well and the Jones trade makes up for some of the other dealings.

I'm not big on getting rid of Murray in a trade.. not big on losing JMFJ in free agency but I am all about Carrlson and Gaborov playing in the NHL (and we need to get a time machine to rush PLD and Abramov into our top 6

What the Pens did in tanking to get Crosby and Malkin was masterful. Never seen it done like that before. What Edmonton did to tank for a decade.. well that wasn't quite worth it to the fan of the Oil. They are primed and ready to go now though with McDavid, Drai and the half dozen other top draft picks.

Who wouldn't want Austin Matthews.. (there was zero % chance of him going anywhere but TML. zero %. I would have to say that front office has been throwing good darts lately as well.

 

[DarkandStormy]

What the Pens did in tanking to get Crosby and Malkin was masterful. Never seen it done like that before.

Because they got gifted Crosby to save their franchise from financial ruin?

 

[db2011]

It's less about draft position and more about luck, to me. But to write off draft position entirely isn't right, either.

...

The problem for the CBJ is mostly just bad luck imo.

well...yes. Without Connor McDavid I don't see them in the playoffs much less winning a series.. Last couple of picks haven't been bad.

It's just, the Oilers had several first overall picks that didn't do anything for them except secure advantageous position to land another first overall.

So maybe it's less about draft position than it is about luck, including the luck of winning the lottery in a year when there is a McDavid to draft. If the Oilers didn't secure multiple first overalls while utilizing a roster containing first overalls, the point would be stronger. But that team seems to be the exception that proves the rule.

 

[SavesEmNot]

So, Torts is (not surprisingly) a Jack Adams finalist.

Someone in the thread on the main NHL forum quoted Portzlineas saying Torts talked to Babcock, and asked if he wanted help writing his acceptance speech- just like Werenski did to Matthews. Did Portzline actually say that anywhere?

 

[CBJx614]

So Porty tweeted that LeBrun and Burnside are out at ESPN. Looks like they've totally thrown-in the towel on NHL coverage at that sinking ship.

ESPN is slashing their overhead. They're supposed to be firing 100 on the air personalities because they're losing money and Disney pressured them to make cuts.

 

[OnYourIgnoreList]

Now, I am only half watching the NSH-STL game, but unless I am mistaken, the refs just stopped play because Tarasenko was hurt and took a knee while in his defensive zone and NSH had the puck.

For some reason I cannot identify, this irked me.