All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread II - The Search for More Depth

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TheReelChuckFletcher

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I could possibly see that if not for Gardiner's health. I don't see the Canes going into next season depending on Gardiner; way too risky, imo.

It's not about "depending" on Gardiner. It's about biding the first half of the regular season and seeing if any one of Gardiner/Lajoie/Sellgren/Bean is the missing link next to Pesce. If none of them work out, then get a Marcus Pettersson (25 year old LHD who is locked-in medium-term w/ Pittsburgh) or someone of that ilk at the trade deadline. This is what good teams near the cap sometimes do to keep the books clean and, at the same time, still have room to add later on.
 
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LakeLivin

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It's not about "depending" on Gardiner. It's about biding the first half of the regular season and seeing if any one of Gardiner/Lajoie/Sellgren/Bean is the missing link next to Pesce. If none of them work out, then get a Marcus Pettersson (25 year old LHD who is locked-in medium-term w/ Pittsburgh) or someone of that ilk at the trade deadline. This is what good teams near the cap sometimes do to keep the books clean.

Ah, we're going to have to disagree on this one. But we won't have to wait too long to see how it plays out.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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If Seattle takes Fast over Skjei maybe do a Gardiner for Connolly swap? Maybe Connolly rekindles something here. If not, his buyout would be 300-400k cheaper.

I wouldn’t keep Gardiner.
 

TheReelChuckFletcher

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If Seattle takes Fast over Skjei maybe do a Gardiner for Connolly swap? Maybe Connolly rekindles something here. If not, his buyout would be 300-400k cheaper.

I wouldn’t keep Gardiner.

I would do it myself. I generally am a big fan of contract-for-contract swaps vs. buying out players unless you're getting a massive sweetener for a buyout like we did for Marleau. Darling for Reimer is a picture-perfect example of why contract-for-contract is often the smart way to go.
 

NotOpie

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I was strongly in the camp of letting the chips fall where they may and just understanding that we were going to lose a good player, likely a defenseman, to Seattle. With the Fleury trade, the very solid play of Skjei, and the 50/50 chance that Hamilton isn't re-signed, I'm now in the camp that is worrying about how this team's strength could easily become a weakness.

Still, there are teams that might find a healthy Gardiner useful. With a little incentive he might not be as difficult to move as we previously thought.....and not only considering Seattle.

I'm also wondering if Lorentz's play has put him on Ron Francis's radar. Sure, there are a lot of 4th liners that will be available, but as others have said centers will be at a premium. Add size to that equation, and you might be looking at a sleeper pick in the ED.

Lastly, I'm very concerned about dead cap money in the flat cap era. It can only come back to haunt.
 

Vagrant

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unfortunately, seattle has the benefit of following a team that executed this process flawlessly in vegas to use as a guide. they took the highest asset value exposure from every team or they forced that team to buy that player back from them with draft picks and prospects. skjei will likely be the player targeted from us because he's valued at a 1st round pick. if you look at the other exposure options on our squad, who else can make that claim? if jake bean could have yielded us a 1st at any point over the last 2 years, we probably take it. jesper fast does not play with the same intensity for this team as he did for the rangers. i think we bought the retirement contract with him. that isn't to say he's useless or bad or whatever, but you're very clearly not catching him on the way up. gardiner isn't even really worth discussing. between the injuries and his skating speed, it's over for him. if you're a veteran defenseman getting scratched from playoff games, it's pretty self-explanatory at that point. i doubt he even attempts to play anywhere else if he's bought out.

vegas also took a lot of shots on guys who were believed to be talent capped in the bottom six and gave them the opportunity to play up. an equivalent for us would be maybe taking foegele if he were available and playing him 17 minutes a night. young guys who at worst were going to be not embarrassing to have in your lineup but your scouting team believes there's more there.

in this case, i think we are likely to see francis and waddell work something out to keep skjei here unless ronnie is so salty he just wants to take him to hurt the team. we probably have some guys francis would like to have back in the bean, geekie, cotton, etc. class that could probably entice him. carolina will have to stack blocks high enough to reach first round pick, though. we'll be alright though, folks. our prospect pool has great depth even if short on stars. francis having a connection to a lot of them is a good thing for us.
 

Vagrant

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another thing that i would try to make happen would be to work seth jarvis into the lineup next season as high as he can play. i think the only way you can keep mcginn and/0r martinook is by creating a niederreiter sized hole and filling it internally with an entry level contract. nino has been subpar in the playoffs all three years he has been here. what he did in the regular season will create enough interest for a team wanting to test drive him before unrestricted status. we likely wouldn't bring him back at the same number he's getting right now, so you would create a lot of flexibility with that move.
 

spockBokk

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I have always hated the idea of paying off Francis.

I would hope they have accepted that their going to lose either Bean or Skjei.
If Skjei is taken, well, they don’t really have an excuse to not re-sign Hamilton, outside of his asking for $9M per year or something like that. If Bean is taken, they still have 3/4 of a solid top 4, with a shot at retaining Hamilton still.

I don’t see them paying Francis off, however, I could see them working with him to acquire a Hamilton replacement out of some of their possible pickups from the expansion draft. BUF might not end up protecting Ristolainen, MIN might have issues protecting Dumba. The Canes have been rumored to have had interest in both players at times. If it’s clear Hamilton truly is hitting the market, I could easily see the Canes’ FO being proactive about bringing in a replacement by making a trade prior to the draft and using the 3rd D slot to protect their acquisition or making a trade with Francis after the draft if he has acquired someone they like.

Then there’s also the likely real possibility, depending on how much $$$ is a motivating factor for Hamilton, that Francis just signs him outright prior to the draft and that counts as the pick from the Canes. Hamilton is easily the best player that Francis just so happens to have exclusive negotiation rights too for a few days prior to the draft.

In terms of what I actually think will happen - they end up protecting Bean and lose Skjei.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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I wouldn’t add Jarvis next season unless we had no other way to add legit scoring. 22-23 season to 24-25 seasons are perfect times to have a legit top 6 scorer on an ELC with the top 6 getting expensive quickly during that timeframe.

if he earns it next camp, then bring him on.
 
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Vagrant

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I wouldn’t add Jarvis next season unless we had no other way to add legit scoring. 22-23 season to 24-25 seasons are perfect times to have a legit top 6 scorer on an ELC with the top 6 getting expensive quickly during that timeframe.

if he earns it next camp, then bring him on.

i would probably agree if not for the ahl performance to start this season. the sample was enough for me to believe he's already mentally prepared for the challenge and knows how to protect himself as a professional player needs to in terms of physicality. there's no reason to stand in the way if he's beaten everything in front of him. this is all pending him being able to not look out of place in the preseason, etc. his performance wasn't all that far off from what zegras did down there and he's been fantastic this year for anaheim. it was probably a little tough to take for the kid that he didn't come straight up this season.
 

Lempo

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But what about the element of pre-ED trades? The last time around McPhee somehow managed to force the teams he had a deal with to not make any trades.

I doubt the GMs are so eager to be taken benefit of this time. We should see trades where teams shop out assets whom they suspect to be high-value target in the ED and whom they cannot protect.
 

Chrispy

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But what about the element of pre-ED trades? The last time around McPhee somehow managed to force the teams he had a deal with to not make any trades.

I doubt the GMs are so eager to be taken benefit of this time. We should see trades where teams shop out assets whom they suspect to be high-value target in the ED and whom they cannot protect.

It is an interesting theory. Move Bean or Skjei for a forward to protect, expose Foegele or Nino instead, and now Seattle is picking among Nino/Foegele, Geekie, Lorentz, or Gardiner.

it would need to be a pretty good forward to merit losing Bean/Skjei AND Nino/Foegele though.

Or do you move Bean for an expansion exempt player? That removes the need to expose Nino/Foegele.
 
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LakeLivin

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. . .

Still, there are teams that might find a healthy Gardiner useful. With a little incentive he might not be as difficult to move as we previously thought.....and not only considering Seattle.

I'm also wondering if Lorentz's play has put him on Ron Francis's radar. Sure, there are a lot of 4th liners that will be available, but as others have said centers will be at a premium. Add size to that equation, and you might be looking at a sleeper pick in the ED.

Lastly, I'm very concerned about dead cap money in the flat cap era. It can only come back to haunt.

. . .
gardiner isn't even really worth discussing. between the injuries and his skating speed
, it's over for him. if you're a veteran defenseman getting scratched from playoff games, it's pretty self-explanatory at that point. i doubt he even attempts to play anywhere else if he's bought out.
. . .

With the caveat that none of us here has inside info and we're all speculating, how could any team (including the Canes) bet on a healthy Gardiner? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall a specific incident leading to his last injury. That makes me overly suspicious that it's chronic, and at 30 yo with a history of back issues, the only risk/reward model I can envision that justifies including Gardiner on a roster is with him as a low/no cost flier. And I say that as being optimistic about Gardiner earlier this season, given the way he started off.

Vagrant, I also have been wondering if Lorentz might have popped up on Francis' radar. I wonder if something along the lines of Lorentz plus a second might be an attractive option?
 

WreckingCrew

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Honestly I wouldn't pay anything for the ED and just let the chips fall where they may and fix things afterwards. It all hinges on Dougie, we'll know by then if he's staying (signed or gentleman's agreement) or moving on to UFA. If he's resigned, you let Skjei get drafted and fill the 2/3 LD spots with a combo of Bean, Gards, Sellgren, and/or UFA/trade. If they go off the wall and select Bean/Geekie/Lorentz, we could dump salary with Gards (even if that means buyout), or shedding salary with Nino/Fast/Foeges and giving Rees/Jarvis/Suzuki/Drury/etc a 3rd line spot. If Doogie is gone you 100% protect Skjei, let them take a Bean/Geekie, and replace internally or with a trade as above. I just don't see a reason to give up assets to take a particular player or not
 
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Buenos Necas

lets go canes
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Skjei's a little overpaid for what he brings, but if we're trying to hold on to the guys who have shown up for us in the playoffs then you gotta protect him at this point. Especially with the strong likelihood of Dougie walking, replacing two top-4 guys this summer wouldn't be a fun task. I might be in the minority here, but if losing Bean is our only cost of expansion then I won't be too upset.

Along the same lines, I'll keep predicting Foegs winds up in Seattle. Last time I was looking through the expansion options it was pretty striking how few LW options there are, and like vagrant said he fits that profile of guys who have been in the bottom-6 of strong teams and might have more to give with more opportunity. I'm admittedly not a huge foegs fan, but I think you come out just fine losing him in expansion and opening up a spot to bring brock back at a similar aav.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

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Skjei's a little overpaid for what he brings, but if we're trying to hold on to the guys who have shown up for us in the playoffs then you gotta protect him at this point. Especially with the strong likelihood of Dougie walking, replacing two top-4 guys this summer wouldn't be a fun task. I might be in the minority here, but if losing Bean is our only cost of expansion then I won't be too upset.

Along the same lines, I'll keep predicting Foegs winds up in Seattle. Last time I was looking through the expansion options it was pretty striking how few LW options there are, and like vagrant said he fits that profile of guys who have been in the bottom-6 of strong teams and might have more to give with more opportunity. I'm admittedly not a huge foegs fan, but I think you come out just fine losing him in expansion and opening up a spot to bring brock back at a similar aav.
If GMRF wants to take Gardiner then Foegele could be available in my opinion.

tbh if GMRF took Palat or Killorn from TB, I would swap them Foegele. Don’t know if they would do that but I would try.
 
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bleedgreen

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Skjei's a little overpaid for what he brings, but if we're trying to hold on to the guys who have shown up for us in the playoffs then you gotta protect him at this point. Especially with the strong likelihood of Dougie walking, replacing two top-4 guys this summer wouldn't be a fun task. I might be in the minority here, but if losing Bean is our only cost of expansion then I won't be too upset.

Along the same lines, I'll keep predicting Foegs winds up in Seattle. Last time I was looking through the expansion options it was pretty striking how few LW options there are, and like vagrant said he fits that profile of guys who have been in the bottom-6 of strong teams and might have more to give with more opportunity. I'm admittedly not a huge foegs fan, but I think you come out just fine losing him in expansion and opening up a spot to bring brock back at a similar aav.
If you took Foegs or Geekie over Bean/Skjei without payment you'd be an idiot. Even if you really wanted Foegs and needed a LW it would be obviously not the best choice so you could make us pay you to take either one.
 
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Buenos Necas

lets go canes
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If you took Foegs or Geekie over Bean/Skjei without payment you'd be an idiot. Even if you really wanted Foegs and needed a LW it would be obviously not the best choice so you could make us pay you to take either one.

Right which is why I started by framing it as protecting Skjei at the risk of losing Bean. Saying Foegs winds up in Seattle is implying more moving parts than just them taking him in the draft.
 

Svechhammer

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Bean can walk. He's just not good.

We need an upgrade on offense. It might take trading a core guy to do it, but we desperately need an elite scorer.
 
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Canes

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No quick and easy fix for this team. Over the next few years, just gotta hope the young guys continue to improve and play smarter, that we can fill out some roster spots with guys on ELCs and cheap RFA contracts, that we can add an impactful UFA or two and that a true #1 goalie steps up.
 

spockBokk

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A trade with Buffalo is intriguing to me, not for Eichel, but Reinhart and Ristolainen specifically.

I wonder if a base of Bean + prospect not named Jarvis + 2021 1st + cap dump (Niederreiter or Gardiner) would be of interest, probably not enough. They’d likely demand Jarvis.

I do have a feeling that they look at bringing in Ristolainen if the price is right. Also, could see Dundon push for Laine.
 
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