Keep in mind that Weber is also coming off of being away from the game for about a year. Definitely not a full apples to apples comparison, especially if the thought is that PK is potentially injured.
All Purpose PK Subban Discussion Thread Part 2
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Keep in mind that Weber is also coming off of being away from the game for about a year. Definitely not a full apples to apples comparison, especially if the thought is that PK is potentially injured.
Subban might be injured, but I think he's mostly in bad condition. He looked terribly slow 2 years ago too when he came back from his injury. I remember thinking he looked like a 40-year old version of himself back then, and now it's the same. But he adapted his game, especially in the playoffs, and his conditionning got better. Hopefully he can get to that level again this year.
And playing with Josi doesn't really help Subban IMO, his lack of speed has been exposed more than ever. When he's with Ekholm, Subban rarely has to defend 2 on 1s, or breakaways. Ekholm is usually the one staying behind, taking care of all that. But Josi is always on the attack, so Subban has to defend more, and right now he can't really do that. It's a shame, because prime Subban with Josi would have been a treat to watch, on both sides of the ice.
And playing with Josi doesn't really help Subban IMO, his lack of speed has been exposed more than ever. When he's with Ekholm, Subban rarely has to defend 2 on 1s, or breakaways. Ekholm is usually the one staying behind, taking care of all that. But Josi is always on the attack, so Subban has to defend more, and right now he can't really do that. It's a shame, because prime Subban with Josi would have been a treat to watch, on both sides of the ice.
Porter Stoutheart
We Got Wood
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I'm totally confident in being able to keep Josi no matter what. I don't see any risk there. Unless something comes up to disgruntle-ize him in the next 2 years. But obviously we are protecting and running with Ekholm and Josi no matter what. And I don't see him holding out for some gaudy $10M salary or whatever it would take to turn us off salary wise.
So to me, it's really just Ellis vs. Subban, and also just highly highly accentuated right now by them both playing like crap (relative to our expectations anyway). We saw Subban's Norris-stretch last year, and Ellis' hot stretch too, and that was just last season. It shouldn't be considered inconceivable that one of them (imagine if both!) got themselves sorted out and soared back to those levels. They aren't old, they were always both a little slow. We don't have any factual evidence to really believe that what we've seen so far this year is as good as it is ever again going to get from them.
Speculation is always fun for us as fans, though. So I'm onboard with speculating that the decision will be between those two in order to leave us with a 3D protection scheme by Seattle, anyway. I don't know what it would take for that schedule to advance much... I imagine their trade value sooner than that would depend on the suitors, some teams might value one more than the other. But I would definitely be giving them the rest of this season and playoffs to prove themselves, bare minimum. And even if they keep playing like crap all the rest of this year, it would take some pretty sweet scenario for me to start thinking about trading one. Like, we can sign BOTH of Duchesne and Stone. Give me that scenario, and I could start getting a little more interested in trading a D.
Ellis. He's signed for 8 more years after this one.
Which is why it won't happen. A good top 4 at worst defenseman signed for 8 years will cost a f*** ton.
NoNecksCurse
#164303
- Oct 19, 2011
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NEWSFLASH: Subban is absolute garbage right now. he makes 9 million a year. if we trade him, i celebrate. for all the weber haters, he is the better defenseman right now at a better cap hit.
it's okay to say we messed up. we made the SCF.
SKIP BAYLESS HOT TAKE: we lost the trade. weber would propel us to where we want to be. Subban is a drain on the locker room and team. no one likes him.
CHANGE MY MIND.
it's okay to say we messed up. we made the SCF.
SKIP BAYLESS HOT TAKE: we lost the trade. weber would propel us to where we want to be. Subban is a drain on the locker room and team. no one likes him.
CHANGE MY MIND.
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
It's impossible to change the mind of a person basing a position completely on emotion and assumption such as "no one likes him". Based on the number of Suban lovers that post here, your last assertion is false which therefore negates your diatribe.
We can what if this trade all day long. Maybe we have more success if Weber remains a Pred. Maybe we never get past the 2nd round. Maybe Weber stays healthy if he isn't traded ... maybe the Preds suffer through missing a top four d-man for almost 3/4 of last season and don't take home the Presidents Trophy.
From the movie Miracle ..."And the name on the front is a hell of a lot more important than the one on the back!"
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
Weber has played one month in the last year, let's see him get a good season and post season grind on that body and then see what he plays like. Something tells me he doesn't look nearly as spry as he currently does.
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
Oh well damn, worse than I thought. That contract looks like a steaming pile right now.
NoNecksCurse
#164303
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Subban is ass. if you can't prove me wrong, ill wait on 303. prove me f***ing wrong please. you 303 and 101 (who I respect to the fullest, thank you and your offsprings) can dispute to the death but Subban is holding this team back. he is not a fit and we are over him.
Gh24
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- Feb 12, 2014
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Getting stronger doesn't mean getting slower, it's - when done correctly - quite the opposite. If he's gained more muscle, he's got more mass to move and THAT would make him slower if he's not gaining enough strength to compensate the extra load.
Gh24
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Whether it's his conditioning, an injury or something else, he's making himself look quite expendable. There could be things behind all this we have no idea of, so I don't want to jump into conclusions too heavily. Still, I can't help but wonder if we're moving on from him in the offseason. Don't you think a rising market or a struggling organization would love to have someone as polarizing as him? Bright lights of Vegas, perhaps?
That all being said, I hope he goes into his annual beastmode in playoffs and I can change my mind about him and be fine having the struggling Subban in the team for regular season as long as he brings that superiority in playoffs
That all being said, I hope he goes into his annual beastmode in playoffs and I can change my mind about him and be fine having the struggling Subban in the team for regular season as long as he brings that superiority in playoffs
I’m not even going to try to change your mind because it’s impossible.
But here are two simple facts: Since the trade the Preds have made the SCF and won the Presidents Trophy. Subban was a huge part of both achievements.
I don’t see how anyone would dispute that the Preds were definitely better off with Subban than Weber the SCF year.
Subban was a Norris nominee last year. Weber was injured for most of the year.
Weber looks better this year, of course he also had a year of recovery so he’s nice and fresh right now. Give Subban’s current issues he is likely injured. Granted I don’t watch every shift of Weber’s like I do Subban so it’s really tough for me to know as much about the Weber side of this.
That’s 2 years out of 3 in favor of Subban.
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
I think some people are jumping the gun a bit. Yeah he hasn't been great, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if he isn't injured but it's one of those things that won't get worse but can't get fixed til the off season. You see it in sports all the time.
Now I'm not opposed to moving him if it makes us better, but to move him just cause someone thinks he needs to be moved is a different matter. Frankly until someone can find me an offer that makes sense your pretty much just wasting your breath cause he ain't going anywhere.
Now I'm not opposed to moving him if it makes us better, but to move him just cause someone thinks he needs to be moved is a different matter. Frankly until someone can find me an offer that makes sense your pretty much just wasting your breath cause he ain't going anywhere.
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
TitansVolsPreds615
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You serious? Weber has played way less than Subban has since the trade. You forgetting his series against the Sharks?
He's not playing like a top pairing defender but he's still playing better than most 2nd pairing guys, we're just spoiled.
Gh24
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Agreed.
I'm not concerned for him playing bad per se, he is not. I'm concerned for him playing bad compared to how we know he can play. Current level is still top4 level, but carrying a 9m AAV has it's emphasizing effect on this.
Pred303
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Porter Stoutheart
We Got Wood
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Yeah exactly, even now he's ok as a top-4 D logging 20-25 mins per game. He's not killing us. Ellis IS even worse. And also is not killing us. The only stickler is that we want him to be #1 and a Norris contender and he's making $9M per. But again, it's jumping the gun a bit to think he can't still be that, and can't at least come close to being worth the $, since he was just last season, and he's only just turning 30. Again, PK just has that knack for eliciting hot button responses in every respect.
Gh24
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101st_fan
I taught Yoda
When you choose to put something rational in this thread, let me know. You're making ColdChickory look like a pillar of logic at this point.
