All Purpose PK Subban Discussion Thread Part 2

[Porter Stoutheart]

I feel like PK has maybe had one 40-ish game stretch for us as a Norris-candidate-worthy D-man. His overall game has not been better because he just doesn't have the jump or dynamics to his game that he used to. He has been stronger along the boards and in the corners, but that doesn't offset what he used to be able to do with the puck. I guess he has spent more of his Preds time looking a little like "damaged goods" compared to his better years with the Habs.

Last year's stretch that put him into the Norris finalist group, and both playoff runs, it's a good thing we have had those to see what he can do. Because the rest would frankly have been a little disappointing and there's no way that could be better than his Habs days overall. I honestly wonder what his medical condition has been. Like whatever was ailing him when we first got him, is that something that has been chronic this whole time? That would explain a lot.

 

[sparkle twin]

The first episode of the PK Project was released today.

It's only 6 minutes, I thought it would be longer, but still entertaining.

 

[triggrman]

Anyone thinking he’s playing good right now is wrong. His skating is becoming more and more of a concern

 

[LCPreds]

He’s not skating well which makes me wonder if he’s injured.

Problem here of course is that he has been very important for the Preds since his arrival. I truly believe they’re only going be successful based on which version of him is able to play during the playoffs. If it’s this version then might as well go ahead and ink another 2nd round exit.

 

[braindead]

Anyone thinking he’s playing good right now is wrong. His skating is becoming more and more of a concern

100% agree. Im a big fan of PK and what he can bring, don’t understand a lot of the vitriol towards him, and still am scared $:&*less that this is permanent.

 

[Pred303]

rough game for him. very rough.

 

[TitansVolsPreds615]

It's unbelievable how slow he looks. Something is wrong.

 

[triggrman]

He’s not skating well which makes me wonder if he’s injured.

Problem here of course is that he has been very important for the Preds since his arrival. I truly believe they’re only going be successful based on which version of him is able to play during the playoffs. If it’s this version then might as well go ahead and ink another 2nd round exit.

Of course he's been important, he replaced Shea Freaking Weber.

 

[Gh24]

It's unbelievable how slow he looks. Something is wrong.

I don't think he's looked too fast at any point he's been with us. Is it that he's slowed down or everyone else got faster or both or what?

 

[Drake744]

I don't think he's looked too fast at any point he's been with us. Is it that he's slowed down or everyone else got faster or both or what?

He just looks like he's in slow motion. He's never been terribly fast but he hasn't looked like this either. To me it doesn't seem like he's skating "poorly", he just looks like he's playing with 30 pound weights around his ankles.

 

[LCPreds]

Of course he's been important, he replaced Shea Freaking Weber.

I'm not really sure where this is going. My last memory of Shea Weber as a Predator was him looking a lot slower than even current speed PK when facing the Sharks in Game 7 a few years back.

 

[triggrman]

I'm not really sure where this is going. My last memory of Shea Weber as a Predator was him looking a lot slower than even current speed PK when facing the Sharks in Game 7 a few years back.

I don't agree here and you're underselling how slow PK has looked lately. He's beaten consistently wide, by everyone. If you were even with Weber, he'd get a body on you, PK isnt' doing that, he's just getting beat.

 

[LCPreds]

I don't agree here and you're underselling how slow PK has looked lately. He's beaten consistently wide, by everyone. If you were even with Weber, he'd get a body on you, PK isnt' doing that, he's just getting beat.

You're also remembering a Weber from 3 years ago. So, sure maybe you're right. 3 years ago Weber would have been faster than current moment Subban. How about current day Weber? I'm not sure if you're implying we would have been better off at this point to not have made the trade or not. You brought up Weber so just trying to understand why.

 

[triggrman]

You're also remembering a Weber from 3 years ago. So, sure maybe you're right. 3 years ago Weber would have been faster than current moment Subban. How about current day Weber? I'm not sure if you're implying we would have been better off at this point to not have made the trade or not. You brought up Weber so just trying to understand why.

I'm not trying to pick an argument, but you mentioned how important he's been to the team, my point was he had to be, he was replacing a top player. And I've watched Weber recently, he's playing well above Subban's level. I don't regret the trade, but if current Subban is what he is, then we're in trouble.

 

[japhi]

You're also remembering a Weber from 3 years ago. So, sure maybe you're right. 3 years ago Weber would have been faster than current moment Subban. How about current day Weber? I'm not sure if you're implying we would have been better off at this point to not have made the trade or not. You brought up Weber so just trying to understand why.

Not going to get into who is better but Shea has not looked slow at all in MTL. Quite the opposite, he is a surpsingly good skater when he winds up ( although not super mobile east west). Montreal plays a fast transition game and he does not look out of step and he plays almost half the game.

In think the difference between the players is positioning, Shea is rarely in position to get beat where as PK has always relied on athleticism and a very good stick, to recover.

 

[LCPreds]

Not going to get into who is better but Shea has not looked slow at all in MTL. Quite the opposite, he is a surpsingly good skater when he winds up ( although not super mobile east west). Montreal plays a fast transition game and he does not look out of step and he plays almost half the game.

In think the difference between the players is positioning, Shea is rarely in position to get beat where as PK has always relied on athleticism and a very good stick, to recover.

So again, what is the most likely... is PK just this slow now or is he injured?

The guy is only 29 years old. Surely whatever natural speed he has didn't leave his body already.

 

[predfan24]

Not going to get into who is better but Shea has not looked slow at all in MTL. Quite the opposite, he is a surpsingly good skater when he winds up ( although not super mobile east west). Montreal plays a fast transition game and he does not look out of step and he plays almost half the game.

In think the difference between the players is positioning, Shea is rarely in position to get beat where as PK has always relied on athleticism and a very good stick, to recover.

I agree with this assessment. Shea is not very mobile but he has decent straight ahead speed.

So again, what is the most likely... is PK just this slow now or is he injured?

The guy is only 29 years old. Surely whatever natural speed he has didn't leave his body already.

He has to be injured. All evidence seems to point that way.Also, complete speculation on my part but I also wonder about his off season training. It seems to include a lot of weight lifting. Strong is good but not at the expense of explosive speed and also not ideal if his back really is giving him chronic issues.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

When does poile think about trading subban? Subban value is still very high being a top defender in the nhl. I like pk and defended him alot but 9 million is a lot to count against the cap and he's not getting any younger. I wouldnt be that upset if poile traded him and brought some top end forward help with the 9 million he saves by trading him. Maybe call Toronto and ottawa and work out a 3 way trade. We know Toronto is dire need for more defense than their getting and have alot of young talented forwards. Ottawa needs to go full rebuild and get as many young assets as the can for stone Duchene, Dzingle and Ceci. Just a thought. By know means do I dislike pk I was ecstatic when we got him but i would like to see one of our top 4 moved and Subban in my opinion has the most value to bring back some better forward help

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Well, they will be privvy to a lot of info on the PK file that we aren't. They'll know about his true health status, and whether it's something they think can heal or might be fixable with a different training regime or whether it stays chronic. They'll have some inkling of the off-ice asset value he brings on the PR front. They'll know how he fits the room etc.

I am guessing - but it's just a guess - that there is nothing quite yet on those fronts that will overcome their most recent Good Looks at him on the ice. And those looks were especially in our playoff runs. He was a beast in the playoffs and our best defender at both ends of the ice. I don't think they can take a chance yet on trading him vs. hoping/expecting that he finds a way to elevate his play yet again in the playoffs. He has had slow starts and not great stretches before. The current stretch is reaching somewhat alarming levels. But I still think he has this playoff to redeem himself at the very least.

Past that, they might not find it all that easy to move him with that cap hit, if they ever decide to go that route. Other teams have eyes too.

 

[glenngineer]

Love PK but after watching him the last few weeks, we need to move on from him this offseason. His speed is diminishing and since the league is moving towards faster players, trade him for top 6 help and hope Fabbro is ready to go next season. Pair him with Josi and we should still have a solid top 4 with additional scoring punch.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

It still comes down to WHY is his speed so diminished. Can he drop 25 lbs and train more for speed and agility than strength this off-season? Does he have a chronic injury (back) that isn't likely going to get better regardless of training?

I don't think the worst case is too bad here, regardless. We can't ever get too stuck. 2 more seasons then we have the expansion draft. Seattle won't be up against the cap and perhaps he can be considered a bit of a marketing goldmine for them. You have to lose somebody in the expansion draft, after all.

I think it might be too much to ask for Fabbro to step right into the top-4 next season.

It's not like we're stuck for 10 more years with a crazy cap recapture penalty lurking in the background, anyway.

 

[LCPreds]

If it's time to move him then it definitely needs to be this offseason. I couldn't care less about the cap to be honest because I'm not convinced there is a better use of 9 mil out there that is actually available to the Preds. With that said, this ultimately comes down to his value and I'd much rather walk away from the table a little early than a little late.

 

[zhok]

I'm not trying to pick an argument, but you mentioned how important he's been to the team, my point was he had to be, he was replacing a top player. And I've watched Weber recently, he's playing well above Subban's level. I don't regret the trade, but if current Subban is what he is, then we're in trouble.

I didn't regret the trade at the time. In theory, we were going to get 5-7 years of PK in his prime. But, PK looks older than Weber at this stage.

In terms of play right now, I'd take Weber over PK. There are contract implications to consider, but the sad part is we may get stuck with Weber's last years anyway.

 

[Soundgarden]

I think if we don't make the Finals then Subban or Ellis are on the block.

 

[GoldOnGold]

Who has more trade value right now, Ellis or Subban?

If we got rid of one of them we would definitely be able to keep Josi.