Post-Game Talk: All aboard the Jurco hype train

[CupofOil]

It’s pretty simple you don’t commit penalties on breakaways where the player has limited time and space. Ever.

He didn't have limited time and space, he was clear of the defenders. Bouchard was too slow to catch up so Samorukov got there faster trying to disrupt Sutter.
What you're suggesting is that Samorukov should have just given up on the play and let him have the breakaway which most Dmen would never do unless they want to be benched for lack of effort.

What you still haven't admitted is that this was all due to Currie's pass handcuffing Bouchard. That's what created the whole sequence.

 

[MessierII]

I think there is a lot of people seeing what they want to see in here RE: Bouchard/Samorukov.

He can have all the 75% corsi games he wants (Nurse and Larsson were just as good here, btw) and it's not going to matter if he doesn't quit getting scored on.

Exactly everybody had a good Corsi. The team played in the Canucks zone all night. Wasn’t unique to them at all. The pairing with the worst Corsi was on the ice for 2 goals for and 0 against. Classic example of reality vs analytics.

 

[MessierII]

He didn't have limited time and space, he was clear of the defenders. Bouchard was too slow to catch up so Samorukov got there faster trying to disrupt Sutter.
What you're suggesting is that Samorukov should have just given up on the play and let him have the breakaway which most Dmen would never do unless they want to be benched for lack of effort.

What you still haven't admitted is that this was all due to Currie's pass handcuffing Bouchard. That's what created the whole sequence.

You can pressure a guy on a breakaway without committing a foul. That is a real possibility believe it or not. Sutter had maybe 10’ at most to make a move. This didn’t happen at the blue line. Yes it was a terrible pass. Never said it wasn’t.

 

[CupofOil]

You can pressure a guy on a breakaway without committing a foul. That is a real possibility believe it or not. Sutter had maybe 10’ at most to make a move. This didn’t happen at the blue line. Yes it was a terrible pass. Never said it wasn’t.

I'm not saying that the hook was a good play, I'm saying that he did the right thing by trying to disrupt the puck carrier. When you are behind a player and reaching, penalties can happen but you can't just stop skating and let the guy get a clean break.

Bottom line is that the goal wasn't primarily Samorukov's fault, it was Currie's fault. He did nothing wrong on the Petersson goal either, that was a bad rebound and slow reaction from Bouchard.

This is exactly the issue I have with +/- and why people fawn over somebody like Benning because of his + numbers. It only tells a small part of the story when evaluating player performance especially in smaller sample sizes.

 

[bone]

Once again I liked the breakouts and the way Tippett uses the 5 man unit. I also like the emphasis on activating the D. Pretty much every dman activated at least once during this game. Nice to see.

I particularly like how they come together to create a puck advantage and find the outlet all over the ice. I didn't note the players but there was an offensive zone sortie where four of the player created a box, then used two quick short passes within that space to break down the Canucks coverage, then found the 5th guy open to create a scoring opportunity. I wonder if it's a version of the swarm that Eakins used to preach.

 

[bone]

I'm beginning to think, there were two different Oilers games after reading the comments. What is it with the different analysis? Usually there is some common ground. Not this time lol

I think that's in part that the Oilers really controlled about 75% of that game with pretty effective play. Unfortunately, the breakdowns they did have were pretty glaring. But that's not surprising considering who was out there for each team. I'd bet overall the coaching staff are pretty satisfied with the overall game by the players.

 

[ElysiumAB]

Our post game thread for a single preseason game will have more discussion than other boards entire preseason games combined.

And our game thread for a single regular season game will have more ups, downs, drinking, crests of hope, and troughs of half-numb depression than other boards entire season combined.

 

[MessierII]

I'm not saying that the hook was a good play, I'm saying that he did the right thing by trying to disrupt the puck carrier. When you are behind a player and reaching, penalties can happen but you can't just stop skating and let the guy get a clean break.

Bottom line is that the goal wasn't primarily Samorukov's fault, it was Currie's fault. He did nothing wrong on the Petersson goal either, that was a bad rebound and slow reaction from Bouchard.

This is exactly the issue I have with +/- and why people fawn over somebody like Benning because of his + numbers. It only tells a small part of the story when evaluating player performance especially in smaller sample sizes.

Just re watched it on the PVR since you inspired me and it’s even worse than I initially remember. Awful, awful hook and completely unnecessary. Could have easily kept his feet moving and tried to get a stick on the puck.

 

[oXo Cube]

And our game thread for a single regular season game will have more ups, downs, drinking, crests of hope, and troughs of half-numb depression than other boards entire season combined.

This board will be on mandatory suicide watch if the Oilers are losing after the first period of the first game.

 

[voxel]

Were you watching the same game as everyone else?

Bouchard made some horrific outlet passes and was pretty soft behind the net - bigger forwards are going to feast on him. He also had 4+ shots blocked/tipped because he spent too much time duffing it. Against this competition he should be destroying. Just don't think he is ready for the NHL.

I actually much prefer Samorukov game even with his warts. He reminds me of a young Petry.

 

[bone]

Yeah... I have ZERO idea what Larsson even thought he was trying to do on that goal. Right from the draw he just leaves the front of the net, wanders into the slot, effectively screening the goalie and nowhere near Sutter... you know, the guy he should have been covering in front. Very odd decision making on that one!

Wasn't Sutter on the left side of the net (i.e. Nurse's side?)

 

[nexttothemoon]

The Oilers 6 dmen in this last game had 35 Corsi events (shots/blocked shots/missed shots) compared to the entire Canucks team that had 39 combined.

The previous game vs the Jets, the Oilers 6 dmen had 31 Corsi events vs 42 for the entire Jets lineup.

It's very clear that the dmen have been given the green light to activate and engage on offense a lot more than in the past. The 5 up and 5 back philosophy seems to be getting through to the players... of course it's early and we'll have to see how that all works out with a "real" NHL roster and if they have the horses to be successful with that type of system... but regardless the team looks to be more actively determined to create more offense on a team wide basis with contributions from across the board.

They are going to need solid goaltending of course because no doubt they are going to get caught sometimes with the dmen more engaged offensively and they'll have some odd man rushes against them... but I like the fact that they are trying to get into the mindset of a team wide philosophy towards producing offense but hopefully the team defense doesn't crack under that system.

 

[MessierII]

Wasn't Sutter on the left side of the net (i.e. Nurse's side?)

Yes. Albeit I think that goal was shoddy coverage by the forwards as well. Nobody was in a good position to clog up passing lanes. You should never be able to thread a needle from the high corner right to the front of the net.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

Bouchard and samarukov were good, but obviously not flawless. I think people are going to overhype their good games to great games due to new toy syndrome, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t have a good game.

I personally think they did incredibly well given that they played the top line of the canucks a lot, but made a few errors which are to be expected in pre season, and from rookies.

That said, I can already see both sides exaggerating their argument in an attempt to prove their point, so we’re gonna have some extremely different opinions here, so anybody who didn’t watch the game, I suggest not putting much weight into what these boards are saying one way or the other.

 

[North]

Just re watched it on the PVR since you inspired me and it’s even worse than I initially remember. Awful, awful hook and completely unnecessary. Could have easily kept his feet moving and tried to get a stick on the puck.

From what I recall he did keep his feet moving. He just couldn’t quite get there and decided to hook him, which was a bad call.

Samorukov will learn how to play those better as he gets more experience.

 

[bone]

Yes. Albeit I think that goal was shoddy coverage by the forwards as well. Nobody was in a good position to clog up passing lanes. You should never be able to thread a needle from the high corner right to the front of the net.

Certainly. The gap by the forwards was gigantic, I just wasn't comprehending the Larsson criticism on that goal, considering where the puck came from, I think he was in the right area of the ice, but Cave was confused, Nurse was covering the guy that Cave or the left winger probably should have had and the wingers were too far apart. Larsson, in my opinion was the least at fault on that one.

 

[trent_vinyl]

Jurco was buzzin, Marody was solid too. But it was McLeod that really stood out. He was super impressive, really clicking with Benson, just like last pre-season. Both of them should make the cut, they would add a real flare to the bottom 6

I liked what I saw from McLeod, but I think he still needs some seasoning and with Sheahan, and others here, I don't see room for him. In terms of Benson, I barely noticed him all night. I"m surprised you said "super impressive" because I was actually pretty disappointed in what I saw from him.

 

[CupofOil]

Just re watched it on the PVR since you inspired me and it’s even worse than I initially remember. Awful, awful hook and completely unnecessary. Could have easily kept his feet moving and tried to get a stick on the puck.

Again, I'm not saying that the hook was a good play. I'm just saying he did the right thing by trying to disrupt Sutter after being placed in a desperate situation because of the poor Currie pass.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Benson is playing decently in the games that I have seen (all of them)... just not getting results.

I would imagine in the coaches minds they are going to see a player that isn't hurting the team and is working hard... but that also isn't making enough of an impression to make the cut on the 23 man roster as of yet... ie he isn't taking someone's job with the way he's played so far.

 

[guymez]

I particularly like how they come together to create a puck advantage and find the outlet all over the ice. I didn't note the players but there was an offensive zone sortie where four of the player created a box, then used two quick short passes within that space to break down the Canucks coverage, then found the 5th guy open to create a scoring opportunity. I wonder if it's a version of the swarm that Eakins used to preach.

Good points...not sure about the swarm.
This system sure is fun watch at both ends of the ice.
I am really curious to see how the main NHL lineup does with this against other NHL rosters.

 

[Oil Dood]

I liked what I saw from McLeod, but I think he still needs some seasoning and with Sheahan, and others here, I don't see room for him. In terms of Benson, I barely noticed him all night. I"m surprised you said "super impressive" because I was actually pretty disappointed in what I saw from him.

Benson has been really disapointing so far this pre season, not that he has been bad but he has been invisible so far. Too bad because I would love for him to get a taste of the bigs but one more year or half a year in Bako will not hurt him.

Manning is awuful, but I want him in the pressbox to start the season, either here or in Bako, no point in him taking up a roster spot on either team.

McLeod will be an NHLer I believe but I do not think he starts here.

 

[Hopelesslucicfan]

Benson is playing decently in the games that I have seen (all of them)... just not getting results.

I would imagine in the coaches minds they are going to see a player that isn't hurting the team and is working hard... but that also isn't making enough of an impression to make the cut on the 23 man roster as of yet... ie he isn't taking someone's job with the way he's played so far.

I think benson is more of a supporting player though, and he hasn’t been given a chance with top 6 nhl line mates. He’s looked pretty good playing with his given line mates, and has been working hard this preseason, and was very good in the AHL last season, so hopefully that earns him a few games to try out for the top 6

I could see him doing well if he gets a couple game with drai and mcdavid or neal and nuge.

 

[MessierII]

Again, I'm not saying that the hook was a good play. I'm just saying he did the right thing by trying to disrupt Sutter after being placed in a desperate situation because of the poor Currie pass.

But he didn’t do the right thing. Moving his feet and trying to reach and get a poke on the puck or a stick lift would be the right thing. A super obvious hook was 100% not the right thing. It was the wrong thing and it put us down a goal.

 

[LaGu]

Yeah... I have ZERO idea what Larsson even thought he was trying to do on that goal. Right from the draw he just leaves the front of the net, wanders into the slot, effectively screening the goalie and nowhere near Sutter... you know, the guy he should have been covering in front. Very odd decision making on that one!

... never mind. Preseason

 

[Rufus Aslegard]

Those hooks happen all the time out of desperation and from good vet defensemen. No coach in their right mind would bench a player for that but I bet there would be plenty of coaches who would bench Currie for that poor pass. Those guys made a few mistakes but that sequence certainly wasn't one of them.

Currie should get benched for that stupid pass.

That is why defensemen hate forwards. The defense looks bad and the forwards make the stupid plays.