Post-Game Talk: All aboard the Jurco hype train

[Drivesaitl]

I'll agree Jurco stood out the most tonight, just looked more skilled than any other forward we were icing and was first to a good number of pucks. Second best forward was probably Patrick Russell did well playing into a tough match-up against the Petterssen line, was solid defensively and noticeable in the offensive zone supporting the play, left me wanting a bit more both skill and speed wise, but ultimately found a way to be relevant and contribute positively. Third best forward for me was probably Marody, he looked like poop in the first, but really seemed to get his head screwed on straight in the 2nd and played more like we expect him to.

I noticed a few pretty passes from Benson, but still don't feel like he is doing enough on the whole to make the team, it's starting to become noticeable that he's not at an NHL strength level quite yet.

I'm fond of what McLeod is doing out there not particularly flashy just tends to play a smooth game and makes the right decision more often than not.

I seen Cave getting ragged on in the GDT, he made some noticeable mistakes, but it was him who seemed to be getting the most shifts head to head against Petterssen on the whole he seemed to be winning the territorial battle more often than not, but was clearly losing the battle in terms of quality chances, for a guy punching way above his weight class in terms of opposition quality I thought he was ok.

For quick hits Granlund was pretty much invisible, and all of Malone, Gambardella, and Currie were a bit underwhelming.

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Nurse made some critical mistakes late, but on the whole he looked like himself just a rustier version (I think I counted 4 muffed shots in the game)

Larsson just wasn't mentally sharp and at times like he was checked out of the game, I was hoping to see the old Larsson, but this looked more like last years version, still plenty of pre-season to get back on track. One thing is I know the coaches told him they wanted more offense out of him and he did seem to be playing higher up more often than he usually does.

Samorukov did a lot right, him and Bouchard were our best pairing tonight, but ultimately it just seems like he's still processing the game at a junior level mentally, he looks like a guy who'll need some AHL polish, but when/if he makes the big club it seems like he has the potential to be a big difference maker.

Bouchard had one really tough shift late in the game and a few mistakes here or there, but atleast for now he seems to be pretty routinely ahead in terms of creating more than he gives up, whether or not he makes the team really seems like it will come down to 2 questions for the coach. Do we need the element that Bouchard provides, which I don't think any other d-man quite fully encapsulates and secondly how comfortable are we with him learning how to play in the NHL. Regardless of the decision we make I'm just getting the vibe that Bouchard won't hit the 80 games played mark in the AHL, it seems like a matter of time before he bullies his way onto the club.

Manning I just don't like this player and watching him play just reinforces that feeling, I'm hoping we can loan him to another AHL team. Bear played pretty good felt like he was carrying his vet partner for the most part. There were moments early in the game where Bear was bobbling the puck a bit too much and a few instances where his lack of size was being preyed on by some of the opposition, but he seemed to be moving the puck the right direction most of the night and I'm hopeful he can show more when we remove that lead boot that is Manning.


Two pre-season games in and I'm liking our young D a lot more than our young forwards.

Probably the best rundown of the game possible. If you didn't watch the game last night just read this post. Pretty bang on regarding every player. With the exception that Malone brought a heavy game and was good on puck scrums and making life miserable for the Canucks to try to exit their zone. He was good on scrums, good on the boards, I like what I saw. Lots of grit.

People making too much of Nurse based primarily on the one mistake with one minute left where Nurse is trying to force a puck in. It happens. In that time of the game its just as bad to circle back, waste another 20secs and tick tick, soon the game is over. People over analyze empty net sequences way too much. They are no representative of general play.

 

[Rufus Aslegard]

I literally just re watched it an hour ago. Your saying hooking him in a ridiculously obvious way was his ONLY option? That’s your opinion?

Samorukov had just come on the ice from a line change.

Currie no looks a pass to Bouchard. Bouchard is not expecting the pass.

At the point, Currie is making the pass, Samorukov is about 10 feet from the Oilers bench. He had just come on the ice.

The Currie pass happens. Sutter has a full head of steam and is starting the breakaway. Remember that at this point, Samorukov is still close to the Oilers bench. Samorukov had just come on the ice and is skating towards the Jets zone. Samorukov now has to turn. He starts to chase as well. Sutter is going full speed. Samorukov is accelerating to try to catch. Bouchard slows down.

At this point, Samorukov is about 2 feet behind Sutter. He gives the hook because he is behind and has no play on the puck.

What else is he supposed to do? Let Sutter take the shot without trying to engage? Samorukov is behind and has to reach his stick in. No other play there.

 

[Drivesaitl]

After watching the highlight pack I noticed nurse and Larsson were on for most of the good chances against by Vancouver. Tell me I am wrong please

Unfortunately not. They were. But this could be due to the Nucks icing more NHL level forwards than the Oil and having some 5 man unit mismatched sequences. To be expected when your own roster is clearly team b with the exception of a handful of players.

 

[smitty10]

Watched the entire game last night. Was very impressed with Jurco. Kid looks like he finally gets it. So much talent there. Hoping for you guys that he's able to continue this into the year and be a productive top 9 player.

 

[MessierII]

Samorukov had just come on the ice from a line change.

Currie no looks a pass to Bouchard. Bouchard is not even close to where Currie passes it.

While Currie is making the pass, Samorukov is about 10 feet from the Oilers bench. He had just come on the ice.

The Currie pass happens. Sutter has a full head of steam and is starting the breakaway. All the Oilers turn and chase. Remember that at this point, Samorukov is still close to the Oilers bench. He had just come on the ice. Samorukov has has to turn and chase as well. He almost catches Sutter. He gives the hook because he is behind and has no play on the puck.

What else is he supposed to do? Let Sutter take the shot without trying to engage? Samorukov is behind and has to reach his stick in. No other play there.

He was at center ice turned at the same time Sutter hit center ice. Obviously Sutter has a step but he was right there the whole way. How about keep skating and get a poke or a stick lift? I’m not sure why that sounds so otherworldly. Even if you can’t get a stick in there if you just put any inkling of pressure on him your goalie has a good chance. It’s Sutter not Elias Pettersson. You don’t ever hook a guy like that. That’s not an excusable decision. You put pressure on him and limit what he can do on his break. You give him a penalty shot he can do whatever he wants. That’s a no brainer.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think benson is more of a supporting player though, and he hasn’t been given a chance with top 6 nhl line mates. He’s looked pretty good playing with his given line mates, and has been working hard this preseason, and was very good in the AHL last season, so hopefully that earns him a few games to try out for the top 6

I could see him doing well if he gets a couple game with drai and mcdavid or neal and nuge.

Well, anybody does reasonably well with McD, Drai. That's a plum position. But is 0-0-0 boxcars over 4 games earning such a position? no.

From what I'm seeing so far across multiple games is Benson is telegraphing passes, giving notice of the plays he's making, and giving defenders and goalies time to move to shooter. He really needs to work on that aspect. Feign something, fake something, or hide the play a bit more.

Something else I'm noticing is Benson doesn't hold puck when the pass lane closes down. He's still making the pass he expected to make. Look for it.

Another is that as much as the people that he's playing with are being blamed for not finishing Benson himself has had around 3-4 scoring chances where he's been late reacting to the puck or the puck bounces over his stick or that he's not even prepared for a shot. He doesn't score a lot of goals, ever, he doesn't seem to have the type of quick mitts that are suitable around the net (see Jurko goal) and McD and Drai are the two best passers on the team.

Can people see where a top line including Benson might pass the puck to death? The players that work best with those two, jmo, can score some goals. The last thing either needs really is a predominate passer. They need someone getting dirty, getting in corners, and that can play big boy hockey. Guys like Maroon, Kass, have worked out well.

 

[bone]

The marvel of having skilled defenseman.

It wasn't all that though. The forwards are supporting the breakout much better. They still have a high guy if the high breakout opens up, but several times the last two days, they made two short quick passes to open lanes that allowed an easier transition to breakout. Even Russell could execute in this situation as long as he keeps his eyes open.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Watched the entire game last night. Was very impressed with Jurco. Kid looks like he finally gets it. So much talent there. Hoping for you guys that he's able to continue this into the year and be a productive top 9 player.

I expected to not be thrilled about the player, and he certainly doesn't have a lot of goals. But the goals he has are almost all redirections, bat ins, deflections and its possible that he has really quick hand eye coordination around the net. The goal yesterday was sure that type of goal.

As we saw with Chiasson last season goals can come from unexpected places if a player heats up. So it can happen. The thing one had to like about Jurko and P Russell is how dominant they were around goal and how many times they were getting in the paint. I always like that.

 

[Rufus Aslegard]

He was at center ice turned at the same time Sutter hit center ice. Obviously Sutter has a step but he was right there the whole way. How about keep skating and get a poke or a stick lift? I’m not sure why that sounds so otherworldly. Even if you can’t get a stick in there if you just put any inkling of pressure on him your goalie has a good chance. It’s Sutter not Elias Pettersson. You don’t ever hook a guy like that. That’s not an excusable decision. You put pressure on him and limit what he can do on his break. You give him a penalty shot he can do whatever he wants. That’s a no brainer.

Except you are forgetting that Samorukov is doing a 180. He is turning from going into the Jets zone to going into the Oilers zone. Samorukov is also still near the Oilers bench.

Sutter is going full speed.

 

[bone]

He was at center ice turned at the same time Sutter hit center ice. Obviously Sutter has a step but he was right there the whole way. How about keep skating and get a poke or a stick lift? I’m not sure why that sounds so otherworldly. Even if you can’t get a stick in there if you just put any inkling of pressure on him your goalie has a good chance. It’s Sutter not Elias Pettersson. You don’t ever hook a guy like that. That’s not an excusable decision. You put pressure on him and limit what he can do on his break. You give him a penalty shot he can do whatever he wants. That’s a no brainer.

Would you at least concede that it was a reasonable mistake to see a guy in the first period of his first ever game against an actual NHLer to make. The fact he got back into the play to have a chance at breaking it up was a good play, but he made the wrong choice or executed poorly the placement of his stick. That is a highly coachable mistake, having the pace to get back like he did, less so.

 

[guymez]

It wasn't all that though. The forwards are supporting the breakout much better. They still have a high guy if the high breakout opens up, but several times the last two days, they made two short quick passes to open lanes that allowed an easier transition to breakout. Even Russell could execute in this situation as long as he keeps his eyes open.

Utilizing the middle of the ice. That might take a little getting used to for Russell.

So much better puck support with this strategy.

 

[LaGu]

I'll agree Jurco stood out the most tonight, just looked more skilled than any other forward we were icing and was first to a good number of pucks. Second best forward was probably Patrick Russell did well playing into a tough match-up against the Petterssen line, was solid defensively and noticeable in the offensive zone supporting the play, left me wanting a bit more both skill and speed wise, but ultimately found a way to be relevant and contribute positively. Third best forward for me was probably Marody, he looked like poop in the first, but really seemed to get his head screwed on straight in the 2nd and played more like we expect him to.

I noticed a few pretty passes from Benson, but still don't feel like he is doing enough on the whole to make the team, it's starting to become noticeable that he's not at an NHL strength level quite yet.

I'm fond of what McLeod is doing out there not particularly flashy just tends to play a smooth game and makes the right decision more often than not.

I seen Cave getting ragged on in the GDT, he made some noticeable mistakes, but it was him who seemed to be getting the most shifts head to head against Petterssen on the whole he seemed to be winning the territorial battle more often than not, but was clearly losing the battle in terms of quality chances, for a guy punching way above his weight class in terms of opposition quality I thought he was ok.

For quick hits Granlund was pretty much invisible, and all of Malone, Gambardella, and Currie were a bit underwhelming.

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Nurse made some critical mistakes late, but on the whole he looked like himself just a rustier version (I think I counted 4 muffed shots in the game)

Larsson just wasn't mentally sharp and at times like he was checked out of the game, I was hoping to see the old Larsson, but this looked more like last years version, still plenty of pre-season to get back on track. One thing is I know the coaches told him they wanted more offense out of him and he did seem to be playing higher up more often than he usually does.

Samorukov did a lot right, him and Bouchard were our best pairing tonight, but ultimately it just seems like he's still processing the game at a junior level mentally, he looks like a guy who'll need some AHL polish, but when/if he makes the big club it seems like he has the potential to be a big difference maker.

Bouchard had one really tough shift late in the game and a few mistakes here or there, but atleast for now he seems to be pretty routinely ahead in terms of creating more than he gives up, whether or not he makes the team really seems like it will come down to 2 questions for the coach. Do we need the element that Bouchard provides, which I don't think any other d-man quite fully encapsulates and secondly how comfortable are we with him learning how to play in the NHL. Regardless of the decision we make I'm just getting the vibe that Bouchard won't hit the 80 games played mark in the AHL, it seems like a matter of time before he bullies his way onto the club.

Manning I just don't like this player and watching him play just reinforces that feeling, I'm hoping we can loan him to another AHL team. Bear played pretty good felt like he was carrying his vet partner for the most part. There were moments early in the game where Bear was bobbling the puck a bit too much and a few instances where his lack of size was being preyed on by some of the opposition, but he seemed to be moving the puck the right direction most of the night and I'm hopeful he can show more when we remove that lead boot that is Manning.


Two pre-season games in and I'm liking our young D a lot more than our young forwards.

It's much appreciated that you take the time to write these game reports! Starting to remind me of LMHF reports in the past (I think that was the user)

Thanks a lot!

 

[CycloneSweep]

Probably the best rundown of the game possible. If you didn't watch the game last night just read this post. Pretty bang on regarding every player. With the exception that Malone brought a heavy game and was good on puck scrums and making life miserable for the Canucks to try to exit their zone. He was good on scrums, good on the boards, I like what I saw. Lots of grit.

People making too much of Nurse based primarily on the one mistake with one minute left where Nurse is trying to force a puck in. It happens. In that time of the game its just as bad to circle back, waste another 20secs and tick tick, soon the game is over. People over analyze empty net sequences way too much. They are no representative of general play.

Nurse looked exactly like he did last year just with some rust. I'm not a big Nurse fan but his game was the average nurse game.

 

[MessierII]

Would you at least concede that it was a reasonable mistake to see a guy in the first period of his first ever game against an actual NHLer to make. The fact he got back into the play to have a chance at breaking it up was a good play, but he made the wrong choice or executed poorly the placement of his stick. That is a highly coachable mistake, having the pace to get back like he did, less so.

Yeah I think that’s exactly what I have been saying the whole time. It was a poor decision that led directly to a goal. I’m just baffled by the notion that was the best he could have possibly done. It wasn’t.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Yeah I think that’s exactly what I have been saying the whole time. It was a poor decision that led directly to a goal. I’m just baffled by the notion that was the best he could have possibly done. It wasn’t.

Like half the NHL players in the league would of done what he did. That was a sure goal without the penalty. Often the right move is do whatever you can to negate the chance and hope your goalie or PK can make up for it.

It happens most nights in the NHL. There is such things as a good penalty. Stopping the chance gave them a second shot at preventing the goal, sadly Starrett played the penalty shot poorly.

 

[MessierII]

Except you are forgetting that Samorukov is doing a 180. He is turning from going into the Jets zone to going into the Oilers zone. Samorukov is also still near the Oilers bench.

Sutter is going full speed.

If you read my post you would have noted that I stated he was fully turned and gaining stride at center ice at the same time sutter crosses center ice. Obviously Sutter has a step on him here and that sucks but it’s still a situation where you can minimize sutters chances without taking a penalty. The decision to hook him in the way he did was the worst possible thing he could have done to attempt to stop him which I already went over and will not do again.

 

[bone]

Yeah I think that’s exactly what I have been saying the whole time. It was a poor decision that led directly to a goal. I’m just baffled by the notion that was the best he could have possibly done. It wasn’t.

But is it not a much easier thing to coach out of a guy who is as raw a rookie as you can get (he didn't play pre-season last year) than him having the ability to get back to have a chance at breaking it up in the first place.

My point is the play is still a net positive at indicating his potential to be an NHLer at one point. He put the stick in the wrong position, but a 5 minute conversation with coaching staff can put that straight. A slower skater like Bouch, maybe never gets the chance to be back and make that mistake, but because it happened due to a poor pass, he wouldn't be criticized on it.

 

[MessierII]

Like half the NHL players in the league would of done what he did. That was a sure goal without the penalty. Often the right move is do whatever you can to negate the chance and hope your goalie or PK can make up for it.

It happens most nights in the NHL. There is such things as a good penalty. Stopping the chance gave them a second shot at preventing the goal, sadly Starrett played the penalty shot poorly.

I disagree. In the nhl players pressure players on breakaways to limit their possible moves all the time and it works. By the time Samurokov was right there with him and could have done several things to limit Sutter without being penalized. Rookie play. Is what it is.

 

[MessierII]

But is it not a much easier thing to coach out of a guy who is as raw a rookie as you can get (he didn't play pre-season last year) than him having the ability to get back to have a chance at breaking it up in the first place.

My point is the play is still a net positive at indicating his potential to be an NHLer at one point. He put the stick in the wrong position, but a 5 minute conversation with coaching staff can put that straight. A slower skater like Bouch, maybe never gets the chance to be back and make that mistake, but because it happened due to a poor pass, he wouldn't be criticized on it.

I’m sorry I don’t take a net positive in a decision that led directly to a goal in a game where we lost by a goal.

 

[bone]

I’m sorry I don’t take a net positive in a decision that led directly to a goal in a game where we lost by a goal.

Is not pre-season your best chance to evaluate the potential of your young players without consequence? A goal against in the first period of the first road pre-season game is about as little a consequence as you can have for a rookie mistake. It in turn became a great learning opportunity for him.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He was at center ice turned at the same time Sutter hit center ice. Obviously Sutter has a step but he was right there the whole way. How about keep skating and get a poke or a stick lift? I’m not sure why that sounds so otherworldly. Even if you can’t get a stick in there if you just put any inkling of pressure on him your goalie has a good chance. It’s Sutter not Elias Pettersson. You don’t ever hook a guy like that. That’s not an excusable decision. You put pressure on him and limit what he can do on his break. You give him a penalty shot he can do whatever he wants. That’s a no brainer.

Kudos. This is old school coaching.

The motto being don't give the guy a better chance through a penalty shot. You got beat, fine, it happens, but pursue relentlessly and take away time and space with back pressure. Don't commit the mistake of allowing the guy the first breakaway, and then give him another hauling him down and granting a penalty shot where he has all day to out wait the goalie.

but its about knowing who the player is on the ice and who is in scoring position. For sure you handle it differently if its a Pettersson.

 

[MessierII]

Well, anybody does reasonably well with McD, Drai. That's a plum position. But is 0-0-0 boxcars over 4 games earning such a position? no.

From what I'm seeing so far across multiple games is Benson is telegraphing passes, giving notice of the plays he's making, and giving defenders and goalies time to move to shooter. He really needs to work on that aspect. Feign something, fake something, or hide the play a bit more.

Something else I'm noticing is Benson doesn't hold puck when the pass lane closes down. He's still making the pass he expected to make. Look for it.

Another is that as much as the people that he's playing with are being blamed for not finishing Benson himself has had around 3-4 scoring chances where he's been late reacting to the puck or the puck bounces over his stick or that he's not even prepared for a shot. He doesn't score a lot of goals, ever, he doesn't seem to have the type of quick mitts that are suitable around the net (see Jurko goal) and McD and Drai are the two best passers on the team.

Can people see where a top line including Benson might pass the puck to death? The players that work best with those two, jmo, can score some goals. The last thing either needs really is a predominate passer. They need someone getting dirty, getting in corners, and that can play big boy hockey. Guys like Maroon, Kass, have worked out well.

Another issue I have with Benson is his shot is just so bad. He’s really gotta work on that. The kid can pass and seems to have pretty good instincts but your shot has to at least be somewhat of a threat to be an offensive player in the nhl.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Another issue I have with Benson is his shot is just so bad. He’s really gotta work on that. The kid can pass and seems to have pretty good instincts but your shot has to at least be somewhat of a threat to be an offensive player in the nhl.

Yep. You can't often be offensively one dimensional as that and be topsix in the NHL. Given that Benson isn't himself a scoring threat defenders can just book off him and cover passing lanes. Being that he's telegraphing where he's passing (every damn time) its not too much of a task to do that.

My bigger concern at NHL level is he's still making those passes that get shutdown. That's turnovers and often enough up high, dangerous kind.

The one thing that's weird is people are tallying up his passes and saying great games, as if he's actually producing. Some of these are not stellar passes and in multiple situations he's passing off when he's got a more legit chance on goal. This is a player that doesn't even trust his own scoring ability.

I get that people want him to hit the show and be ready to help out now. But its not looking like he's up for it at this point.

In anycase he'll get 2-3 more games to show.

 

[smitty10]

Another issue I have with Benson is his shot is just so bad. He’s really gotta work on that. The kid can pass and seems to have pretty good instincts but your shot has to at least be somewhat of a threat to be an offensive player in the nhl.

Jason Blake made a career of scoring goals with no shot at all. I remember when the Leafs signed him after his 40 goal season with the Isles and it was almost embarrassing to watch him shoot. Guy still managed to score though.

 

[MessierII]

Is not pre-season your best chance to evaluate the potential of your young players without consequence? A goal against in the first period of the first road pre-season game is about as little a consequence as you can have for a rookie mistake. It in turn became a great learning opportunity for him.

Nowhere am I saying cut him tomorrow. Am I not allowed to point out a bad decision by a player? I thought that pair struggled in their own zone all night and I thought that was one isolated incident that Sammy could have played better that ended up with the worst possible result. I’m not saying he can’t learn from it I’m just disputing the idea that somehow he gets completely absolved of that because he’s young and it’s pre season.