Rumor: Alex Pietrangelo discussion #2- Will it happen?

[Wafflewhipper]

In the interest of staying on topic while trying not to offend anyone, I will say this.

Whether or not you think some of the contracts are bad or not, they represent a significant percentage of a limited pie, leaving a finite amount to spend on other players. Simple fact.

By adding another player in the $8-9M range, it further reduces the amount that can be spent on the remaining players. Simple fact.

Some believe that a team can compete with some 50% of it's cap tied up in 5 players. I do not share that opinion. I can find no evidence of it happening in the cap era, and again IMO, I doubt you ever see it.

If Mr. Dubas believes that is the route to take, then I hope for his sake he is correct. If he is not, I doubt he works as an NHL GM for a very long time, if ever.

I just gave up on debating it. A.P is good no doubt about it. Affordable is the issue.

 

[ToneDog]

I’d like to bring him in, but the math doesn’t work for me. You can’t have 5 guys taking up roughly 60% of your cap. I am guessing he’ll come in at 8.5-9M a year? Didn’t teams that just went to the final, and even the 2 other final 4 teams, show that you need actual depth in order to go far?

60% or the cap on 5 players won't work IMO.

If Dubas brings in Petro he has to rebalance the money from forward to defence or prove most of the hockey community wrong.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Funny how the Kapanen, Johnsson, and (to a lesser extent) the Kerfoot contracts were all seen as Dubas “steals” when signed...

One season later and they’re our cap holes that need to go and make room. Not the overpayments. The “steals”.

there's a reason Dubas was able to get so much value back for Kapanen, and it's not because he was overpaid and seen as a cap dump

 

[Throw More Waffles]

there's a reason Dubas was able to get so much value back for Kapanen, and it's not because he was overpaid and seen as a cap dump

And that reason is that they get 2 years of a 3 year 9.6 million contract for $4 million (2 million per year). I wonder if mlse thinks 5.2 million for 13 goals and 35 points was a good deal .

 

[34]

I agree on him bolting. There are a lot of young stars in Canadian markets. Auston being American would be huge in a big market like LA for example. I could see a lot of pressure on him to sign in a market like that.

100%. If he had any intentions of staying, he would not have signed a five-year contract.

 

[Craig Button]

100%. If he had any intentions of staying, he would not have signed a five-year contract.

or he has a good agent who understands that short term deals are actually better for their clients.

 

[Metroid]

Anyone still complaining about contracts might be living in the past a bit to much. Every fu**** thread.

Maybe theu think if they keep repeating it, it will go away lol

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Maybe theu think if they keep repeating it, it will go away lol

Tavares
Matthews top 10 centers
Nylander
Marner top 10 right wingers and average age of 25 counting 30 year old Tavares.

Marner,Matthews,Nylander and Robertson average 22.25 ha. Whats to complain about. These guys are kids. They just need savvy gained from expierence.

 

[egd27]

Maybe theu think if they keep repeating it, it will go away lol

Worked for this one......

In fact, he went away and some are still complaining about it.

 

[Metroid]

Worked for this one......

In fact, he went away and some are still complaining about it.

Lol well then there's one thing to do then..

 

[Menzinger]

100%. If he had any intentions of staying, he would not have signed a five-year contract.

Most stars in the cap era have signed that length of a deal post elc. Only Tavares, Suter and Parise have ever left

 

[JT AM da real deal]

a

The overpayments are the reason the team lacks depth and is mediocre. So I don’t see the DIRECT cause of the teams problems just being ignored going forward. The overpayments will constantly be pointed out. Get used to it.

You can’t really talk about the leafs without mentioning. Watch. I think there’s literally no chance that Pietrangelo comes to Toronto. Why? Specifically because there isn’t enough room for him due to the overpayments.

We overpaid IN PART because other markets could pay less for same guys and get to same after tax $$$. As long as Ontario is the highest taxed combined state (3% over california and 16% over florida) we are going to deal with this issue for da higher priced talent. Tampa has a massive advantage over us in what guys put in their pocket. Tampa's CAP advantage in a CBA world as it exists today will be there. To make things on a level playing field the CAP would have to be negotiated to be on after tax adjusted basis. Soon as this occurs then unfortunately the sponsorship issue will have to be negotiated too as currently that is considered outside da CBA. This entire issue would be tricky to manage and deal with but reality is da agents have it all figured on in their GM presentations. Dubie is well aware of da issues he faces. Toronto would have had to massively overpay for Stammer on a 7 year deal. And there is nothing wrong with these agents getting every advantage they can for their players. You have to game da system as players only have so many years (avg 5 yrs) of earnings and most have a high school diploma to fall back on.

 

[Shanwhatplan]

Tavares
Matthews top 10 centers
Nylander
Marner top 10 right wingers and average age of 25 counting 30 year old Tavares.

Marner,Matthews,Nylander and Robertson average 22.25 ha. Whats to complain about. These guys are kids. They just need savvy gained from expierence.

I so hope I’m wrong, but I can’t see any possible way of being a true Cup contender with 50% of the cap tied up in 4 forwards. How can you improve the defence, as well as the bottom six? What am I missing?

 

[080]

I so hope I’m wrong, but I can’t see any possible way of being a true Cup contender with 50% of the cap tied up in 4 forwards. How can you improve the defence, as well as the bottom six? What am I missing?

You're not missing anything. There are just a heap of delusional people who think that you can sign AP and keep the big four then run 750k forwards and defensemen to round out the roster.

Except that it's been proven over and over again that depth is important. Not to mention we have new contracts coming up for Rielly and Hyman that need to be taken into consideration as well.

 

[Martin Skoula]

You're not missing anything. There are just a heap of delusional people who think that you can sign AP and keep the big four then run 750k forwards and defensemen to round out the roster.

Except that it's been proven over and over again that depth is important. Not to mention we have new contracts coming up for Rielly and Hyman that need to be taken into consideration as well.

You can run the big 4 and AP for one season and then make adjustments based on the results. You know we can still trade Marner or Nylander next offseason right? If we pay their bonuses before trading them, they'd have massive value, I think their cash owed would be around 6.5 and 5 per year respectively.

Also go ahead and tell me how much the depth you guys keep raving about costs. The "depth" that helped recent cup winners has generally been under a mil and a half. Expensive depth is not necessarily good depth.

 

[Menzinger]

You can run the big 4 and AP for one season and then make adjustments based on the results. You know we can still trade Marner or Nylander next offseason right? If we pay their bonuses before trading them, they'd have massive value, I think their cash owed would be around 6.5 and 5 per year respectively.

Also go ahead and tell me how much the depth you guys keep raving about costs. The "depth" that helped recent cup winners has generally been under a mil and a half. Expensive depth is not necessarily good depth.

Exactly.

The team can run be a bit more experimental if they do sign him. Lean hard on the top two lines for offense, fill out the bottom ones with forecheckers. If the experiment doesn't work then they can do more drastic things with the core

 

[kb]

Most stars in the cap era have signed that length of a deal post elc. Only Tavares, Suter and Parise have ever left

Pop quiz.

Who was the GM in 2 of those 3 cases?

 

[Legion34]

I so hope I’m wrong, but I can’t see any possible way of being a true Cup contender with 50% of the cap tied up in 4 forwards. How can you improve the defence, as well as the bottom six? What am I missing?

could you have possibly imagined a team winning the cup with

Bargain bin/buyout players? The bolts just won with

1.) shattenkirk (buyout)
2.) Schenn
3.) Bogosian
4.) rutta

because their right side was as bad or not worse than the right side we were told that can’t win

 

[080]

Exactly.

The team can run be a bit more experimental if they do sign him. Lean hard on the top two lines for offense, fill out the bottom ones with forecheckers. If the experiment doesn't work then they can do more drastic things with the core

This is fair enough. And I don't know what the best option truly is. My thinking, I guess, is that you try to build a formula that you can carry forward easily. Whereas if you try AP, the big four, and then an assortment of league min guys and it doesn't work, then you have another season with potentially a ton of roster turnout.

I can see the argument for both paths forward though.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He's already proven he didn't want to be a team player and a sign an 8 year team friendly deal like McDavid did.

Matthews was open to an 8 year term. They ended on 5, the most common term for players of that caliber, so that they could keep everybody together.

Stamkos just signed the year before at 8.

Stamkos signed 2 years prior at 8.5, as a lesser player, coming off a bad 64 point season.

The Tavares contract is fine, and the potential numbers being thrown around for Pietrangelo are pretty decent.

 

[egd27]

Pop quiz.

Who was the GM in 2 of those 3 cases?

Was it this guy?

 

[LeafChief]

What an absolute cesspool.

 

[egd27]

could you have possibly imagined a team winning the cup with

Bargain bin/buyout players? The bolts just won with

1.) shattenkirk (buyout)
2.) Schenn
3.) Bogosian
4.) rutta

because their right side was as bad or not worse than the right side we were told that can’t win

So AP is unnecessary? Great, let's move on.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Was it this guy?

Maybe we will call him up once the NHL moves away from the cap system.

 

[4thline]

You're not missing anything. There are just a heap of delusional people who think that you can sign AP and keep the big four then run 750k forwards and defensemen to round out the roster.

Except that it's been proven over and over again that depth is important. Not to mention we have new contracts coming up for Rielly and Hyman that need to be taken into consideration as well.

The Cap Allocation Thread