Rumor: Alex Pietrangelo discussion #2- Will it happen?

[ToneDog]

So AP is unnecessary? Great, let's move on.

Technically we had bargain bin dmen on our right side last year but we were not as "lucky" as TB. Apparently we got stymied by unbeliveable goaltending. We probably softened up CBJ for Tampa.

 

[egd27]

Maybe we will call him up once the NHL moves away from the cap system.

Thats a good idea, whoever we had couldn't get it done without cap.

 

[The CyNick]

Matthews was open to an 8 year term. They ended on 5, the most common term for players of that caliber, so that they could keep everybody together.

Stamkos signed 2 years prior at 8.5, as a lesser player, coming off a bad 64 point season.

The Tavares contract is fine, and the potential numbers being thrown around for Pietrangelo are pretty decent.

Let's see what happens Pal.

 

[Stephen]

could you have possibly imagined a team winning the cup with

Bargain bin/buyout players? The bolts just won with

1.) shattenkirk (buyout)
2.) Schenn
3.) Bogosian
4.) rutta

because their right side was as bad or not worse than the right side we were told that can’t win

If we had a Hedman instead of Rielly as our number one and Sergachev and Cernak behind him, you could backfill a lot of depth with more limited guys who play certain roles. That's why a Pietrangelo is so key to turning the blueline from a weakness into a potential strength. You could play anyone behind a core that starts with Pietrangelo, Rielly and Muzzin at the top.

 

[Coachcorner]

The talk on streets is real hard and like we are in it for the pietrangelo sweep stakes. It's gon be a hard walk though. People are really talking and I'm keeping my eyes and ears open sire. They like whispering at times: "The leafs have a real chance on a real d-man and its been a long time since this type of a situation is open". I was blown away like how they are deep in this. Moving in on him and all. Like diving in on that dirt like for real. Other teams fans was more like: "I'm jelious of the offense the leafs got, but if they get their D correct, i'ma be even more jelious of that dirt. And you bets believe dat." They was like that there. I stayed real quiet and just listened. Minding my own bidness. Like I was stone cold hard there, just still with my thousand yard stare. Never telld them nothing, kept my mouth shut.

 

[seanlinden]

If we had a Hedman instead of Rielly as our number one and Sergachev and Cernak behind him, you could backfill a lot of depth with more limited guys who play certain roles. That's why a Pietrangelo is so key to turning the blueline from a weakness into a potential strength. You could play anyone behind a core that starts with Pietrangelo, Rielly and Muzzin at the top.

To be fair... I think if you take away a lot of the team factors, Erik Cernak and Justin Holl may not be all that dissimilar. Even Sergachev, he's been primarily used as a 3rd pairing defenceman alongside Kevin Shattenkirk and earlier in the year, Braydon Coburn. Dermott has obviously been up & down and probably disappointed this year, but I wouldn't say that Sergachev is worlds better than him.

The difference really comes in the top 2 for Tampa versus the Top 2 for Toronto. Hedman is an absolute beast that can play with anyone in any situation. Rielly is a more dynamic offensive talent, but he's not a 6'6 230lbs beast, and would probably benefit greatly from somebody who can shoulder some of the physical load.

Muzzin is a really good 2nd pair defenceman, but McDonagh is a top pair guy playing a 2nd pair role.

Would Pietrangelo help? absolutely, he's better than McDonagh, not quite as good as Hedman. Personally though, I think he's a) a bit overkill and b) likely too expensive.

I think the Leafs would be much better served pursuing a defenceman like Pesce or Parayko -- and keeping some balance / flexibility in the roster.

 

[A1LeafNation]

What's our PP looking like with AP:

Tavares
Nylander Matthews
Rielly AP

Tavares as net front presence, snipers in Matthews and Nylander on the wings, Rielly as PPQB, and AP as your point shot.


Sucks not having Marner on PP1 but Leafs lack a point shot.

Hyman
Robertson Mikheyev
Muzzin Marner

 

[lovemyleafs]

What's our PP looking like with AP:

Tavares
Nylander Matthews
Rielly AP

Tavares as net front presence, snipers in Matthews and Nylander on the wings, Rielly as PPQB, and AP as your point shot.


Sucks not having Marner on PP1 but Leafs lack a point shot.

Hyman
Robertson Mikheyev
Muzzin Marner

I think we’ll eventually see Lehtonen on one of the PP units.

 

[Jmo89]

So AP is unnecessary? Great, let's move on.

The biggest difference though is that Rielly isn't Hedman. I think that's what makes alot of people want AP. He's not as good as Hedman but he's probably closer than Rielly. Rielly is one of my favorite Leafs, and I think he's pretty near a #1 (2 seasons ago he was one IMO,) but few players can have an effect on a game like Hedman. If we are comparing the Leafs to Tampa, I think the better question is, is AP anywhere close to Hedman? If the answer is no, then he's probably not worth the price tag.

Out of curiosity, if the Leafs pass on AP what should they do? There's a lot of talk of trading either Marner or Nylander. Do you think they should stick with the core and hope that experience and insulation help them take the next step? Or do they still trade one anyways?

 

[A1LeafNation]

The biggest difference though is that Rielly isn't Hedman. I think that's what makes alot of people want AP. He's not as good as Hedman but he's probably closer than Rielly. Rielly is one of my favorite Leafs, and I think he's pretty near a #1 (2 seasons ago he was one IMO,) but few players can have an effect on a game like Hedman. If we are comparing the Leafs to Tampa, I think the better question is, is AP anywhere close to Hedman? If the answer is no, then he's probably not worth the price tag.

Out of curiosity, if the Leafs pass on AP what should they do? There's a lot of talk of trading either Marner or Nylander. Do you think they should stick with the core and hope that experience and insulation help them take the next step? Or do they still trade one anyways?

Also, we know how exposed we are if Rielly gets injured.

If we get some lesser talent, we will always be exposed, but if we get equivalent talent or better, we can weather the storm until healthy.

 

[Trapper]

Also, we know how exposed we are if Rielly gets injured.

If we get some lesser talent, we will always be exposed, but if we get equivalent talent or better, we can weather the storm until healthy.

It’s Muzzin I’m concerned about more.
He’s been injured at various times since he got here. It could be a trend as he aged now.

That leaves Rielly to anchor the whole show. Not good by any stretch. Need to revamp the D and get a quality guy who can handle big minutes and premium forwards in the mix.

 

[egd27]

Out of curiosity, if the Leafs pass on AP what should they do?

I'm afraid I don't have a specific answer to this, given I'm not privy to player availability, nor do I have an understanding of the actual "locker room environment" to know what may not be working.

I do suspect there are some significant locker room issues, but that's just speculation. (and I understand there are always some issues on every team, so there is no need for a reply from the gang pointing this out)

IMO they likely need 4-5 players that can assist with changing the make up of the team.
The coaching staff needs to teach them how to play different styles so they can adapt to different situations (and they need to be willing to listen and not give up if they don't have immediate success)

If that means one of the big contracts has to go for the betterment of the team, so be it. If Dubas & Keefe can pull it off by keeping the core intact, then great.

IMO, AP is a great player and would be an asset to any team, but he is another example of the TML trying to throw money around and take the "easy" way to improvement.

I thought the idea was to build an organization that will be able to compete year in and year out over the long haul? Yet after 2 playoff appearances, suddenly it's time to go for it because our 20 year core is ready?

Dubas like to talk about "trusting the process". Throwing big cash at UFA's is not a process, it's an attempt to fix something immediately. I think he can talk the talk. whether he can walk the walk is very much an unknown after his first 2 seasons.

 

[seanlinden]

I'm afraid I don't have a specific answer to this, given I'm not privy to player availability, nor do I have an understanding of the actual "locker room environment" to know what may not be working.

I do suspect there are some significant locker room issues, but that's just speculation. (and I understand there are always some issues on every team, so there is no need for a reply from the gang pointing this out)

IMO they likely need 4-5 players that can assist with changing the make up of the team.
The coaching staff needs to teach them how to play different styles so they can adapt to different situations (and they need to be willing to listen and not give up if they don't have immediate success)

If that means one of the big contracts has to go for the betterment of the team, so be it. If Dubas & Keefe can pull it off by keeping the core intact, then great.

IMO, AP is a great player and would be an asset to any team, but he is another example of the TML trying to throw money around and take the "easy" way to improvement.

I thought the idea was to build an organization that will be able to compete year in and year out over the long haul? Yet after 2 playoff appearances, suddenly it's time to go for it because our 20 year core is ready?

Dubas like to talk about "trusting the process". Throwing big cash at UFA's is not a process, it's an attempt to fix something immediately. I think he can talk the talk. whether he can walk the walk is very much an unknown after his first 2 seasons.

Colton Parayko or Brett Pesce.

Both guys that fit into the age bracket of this team, and can likely be added without having to completely decimate depth. Even in 2 years when both Parayko and Rielly would be up for new deals, you can probably bring both back if Nylander is on his way out.

The $2.5m for Parayko, or $4m savings on a guy like Pesce are going to be instrumental in being able to maintain the depth required so that if somebody gets hurt, you're not completely screwed.

Even if you have to trade Nylander to do get a guy like Parayko, honestly, so be it. A winger is easier to find/replace than a defenceman the quality of Colton Parayko. Auston Matthews has been proven to score when placed on a line with Kapanen & Johnsson. You might already have an ideal winger or two for him in the form of Mikheyev, Johnsson or Robertson. Maybe you can get a Sammy Blais, Zach Sanford, or Jordan Kyrou out of St. Louis recognizing that Nylander has twice the term remaining that Parayko does. Maybe you trade Johnsson and get a guy like Rakell out of Anaheim.

 

[Terrible GM]

It’s Muzzin I’m concerned about more.
He’s been injured at various times since he got here. It could be a trend as he aged now.

That leaves Rielly to anchor the whole show. Not good by any stretch. Need to revamp the D and get a quality guy who can handle big minutes and premium forwards in the mix.

a fluke injury and a broken bone from a shot block... and it could be a trend due to age??

 

[Stephen]

Colton Parayko or Brett Pesce.

Both guys that fit into the age bracket of this team, and can likely be added without having to completely decimate depth. Even in 2 years when both Parayko and Rielly would be up for new deals, you can probably bring both back if Nylander is on his way out.
.

Colton Parayko is 3 years younger than Alex Pietrangelo. Pietrangelo is the same birth year as Captain Tavares, and the latest Conn Smythe winner Victor Hedman.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think Pietrangelo will sign in St Louis, but if he doesn’t, he’ll go to a team that’s a player or two from winning. Therefore, I don’t think he’ll sign in with a Canadian based team and will somehow end up in Vegas or Colorado or, if does choose to go to the East, it’ll be somehow Boston.

 

[kb]

I think Pietrangelo will sign in St Louis, but if he doesn’t, he’ll go to a team that’s a player or two from winning. Therefore, I don’t think he’ll sign in with a Canadian based team and will somehow end up in Vegas or Colorado or, if does choose to go to the East, it’ll be somehow Boston.

Wasn't this said about Tavares too by the pessimists? If he wants his NMC and bonus structure, his options are very limited.

 

[Jmo89]

Colton Parayko or Brett Pesce.

Both guys that fit into the age bracket of this team, and can likely be added without having to completely decimate depth. Even in 2 years when both Parayko and Rielly would be up for new deals, you can probably bring both back if Nylander is on his way out.

The $2.5m for Parayko, or $4m savings on a guy like Pesce are going to be instrumental in being able to maintain the depth required so that if somebody gets hurt, you're not completely screwed.

Even if you have to trade Nylander to do get a guy like Parayko, honestly, so be it. A winger is easier to find/replace than a defenceman the quality of Colton Parayko. Auston Matthews has been proven to score when placed on a line with Kapanen & Johnsson. You might already have an ideal winger or two for him in the form of Mikheyev, Johnsson or Robertson. Maybe you can get a Sammy Blais, Zach Sanford, or Jordan Kyrou out of St. Louis recognizing that Nylander has twice the term remaining that Parayko does. Maybe you trade Johnsson and get a guy like Rakell out of Anaheim.

It seems like STL wants Parayko to take over as the #1 (some posters have said he already has,) so I'm not sure Toronto can pry him away.

Pesce seems like a viable option and has been intriguing since he was first mentioned a couple seasons ago. Funny enough, if remember correctly, I believe the basis then was Nylander for Pesce (with rumors that Toronto only wanted to give up Johnsson or Kapanen.) I am not sure if those were ever anything more than conjecture by fans though. They both have 4 years remaining, but I don't know enough about Pesce to say if the value is there.

 

[kb]

It seems like STL wants Parayko to take over as the #1 (some posters have said he already has,) so I'm not sure Toronto can pry him away.

Pesce seems like a viable option and has been intriguing since he was first mentioned a couple seasons ago. Funny enough, if remember correctly, I believe the basis then was Nylander for Pesce (with rumors that Toronto only wanted to give up Johnsson or Kapanen.) I am not sure if those were ever anything more than conjecture by fans though. They both have 4 years remaining, but I don't know enough about Pesce to say if the value is there.

That was back when the Canes had a ton of good depth on the RD. That's all gone now, so nothing short of a ridiculous overpay will get him now.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I think Pietrangelo will sign in St Louis, but if he doesn’t, he’ll go to a team that’s a player or two from winning. Therefore, I don’t think he’ll sign in with a Canadian based team and will somehow end up in Vegas or Colorado or, if does choose to go to the East, it’ll be somehow Boston.

He already won a Cup, I don't think that would be the sole determining factor.

 

[EGL22]

I have about a 1% belief we sign Petro and I think I am being optimistic.
I fully expect to be in the ,we signed who? why that guy?thats it?

That will be followed by Dubas at a media scrum pulling out his little black book of stats and saying we are very pleased to have gotten this dman because he does this very well and that well and he is what we were looking for to upgrade.

I will shake my head and say different year,different crap and another year flushed away.

I know,negative vibes all the way but until Dubas shows me he can do more,and I don't think he can, it is what I expect.

 

[ToneDog]

I have about a 1% belief we sign Petro and I think I am being optimistic.
I fully expect to be in the ,we signed who? why that guy?thats it?

That will be followed by Dubas at a media scrum pulling out his little black book of stats and saying we are very pleased to have gotten this dman because he does this very well and that well and he is what we were looking for to upgrade.

I will shake my head and say different year,different crap and another year flushed away.

I know,negative vibes all the way but until Dubas shows me he can do more,and I don't think he can, it is what I expect.

If I had to bet I'd say he stays in STL but Pierre McGuire who usually keeps his thoughts on player movement close to the vest, yesterday said he thinks Petro leaves STL and if he does, I say the odds he lands here are high.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

If we had a Hedman instead of Rielly as our number one and Sergachev and Cernak behind him, you could backfill a lot of depth with more limited guys who play certain roles. That's why a Pietrangelo is so key to turning the blueline from a weakness into a potential strength. You could play anyone behind a core that starts with Pietrangelo, Rielly and Muzzin at the top.

Hedman McD Serge and Cernak are SO FAR superior to our top 4 of Rielly Muzzy Dermy and Holl it is a complete joke to even bring up a comparison. Comparing a top 4 defense to a bottom 4 defense. The bottom pair guys are important but they hardly play. I had a huge laugh when I read that. OMG Leaf fans so overvalue our defense. It is bottom 5 in league.

 

[Zybalto]

Hedman McD Serge and Cernak are SO FAR superior to our top 4 of Rielly Muzzy Dermy and Holl it is a complete joke to even bring up a comparison. Comparing a top 4 defense to a bottom 4 defense. The bottom pair guys are important but they hardly play. I had a huge laugh when I read that. OMG Leaf fans so overvalue our defense. It is bottom 5 in league.

Tampas D TOI/GP in the playoffs (from the 6 guys who played 20+ games):

Hedman: 26:27
McDonagh: 24:15
Sergachev: 22:36
Cernak: 20:42
Shattenkirk: 19:30
Bogoisan: 17:39

Looks pretty spread out no?

In the end, Tampa was a team who was good at everything this year. Near the top in xGF/60, xGA/60 and goaltending. The total package.

I dont overrate or underrate anything. For years we've watched a team getting carried by its high end offence and goaltending and xGA/60 down near the bottom of the league just like you said.

Since Keefe took over, xGA/60 was 10th best in the league. Why? Why were the Leafs the 10th best defensive team in the main stat we look at to track team defence. Was 50 games too small a sample size?

 

[Nineteen67]

He already won a Cup, I don't think that would be the sole determining factor.

Could be. If he wants front loaded contract with generational wealth, then Dubas will be his first call.
I still think he stays in St Louis, but if he’s done with them, then I think he ends in either Vegas or Boston.