Speculation: After all this shuffling, who stays and who goes?

[Pirate King Luffy]

I... I wasn't. I said he got schooled. And I even pointed out that he wasn't immediately benched afterwards.

However, if I was going to make any point, it would be the same one that's been made already a lot of times, and that is that the same mistake from certain other players would be handled differently. But that's ok. Hartley's man-managing and he's getting results. Baertschi doesn't appear outwardly frustrated right now, so I'd have to think that communication has been good between coach and player.

Alright, It is 2 am right now. Selective reading on my part, need to go to bed now.

 

[Master Bill]

Granlunds at least 3C and might move ahead of Backlund later on this season as our #2. Has 8pts in 9 games this season and is 2nd in rookie PPG this year. Would be interesting to see if he would have challenged for the Calder this year if he had been up from the start of the year. He and Gaudreau dominated the overtime and Granlund was a huge reason the Flames came back and beat Anaheim tonight. Granlund is a keeper. Thank you God for the Erixon trade!!!!!!!!!!!!

I honestly do not think Granlund, as impressive as he has been so far, will surpass Backs as long as he's on the team. It's impressive how Granlund's digested some critical minutes for us, but at the moment, a healthy Backlund is simply better than Granlund.

 

[Steven]

I honestly do not think Granlund, as impressive as he has been so far, will surpass Backs as long as he's on the team. It's impressive how Granlund's digested some critical minutes for us, but at the moment, a healthy Backlund is simply better than Granlund.

I agree that Backs is still the better option for the time being, but I don't think it's that far-fetched that Granlund surpasses him. IMO Granlund's offensive ceiling is much higher.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

If Granlund was a former mid 1st round pick, the hype on him from our fanbase would enormous by now. He's developed exactly the way you could hope for, and he's been one of our best contributors this season.

I don't know what his ceiling is, but he's a highly skilled player so I think it's pretty good. Him and Backs are different players, but I think Granlund has higher offensive potential.

 

[Steven]

If Granlund was a former mid 1st round pick, the hype on him from our fanbase would enormous by now. He's developed exactly the way you could hope for, and he's been one of our best contributors this season.

I don't know what his ceiling is, but he's a highly skilled player so I think it's pretty good. Him and Backs are different players, but I think Granlund has higher offensive potential.

The thing is, I don't think anyone expected Backlund to develop into the player that he did. He used to be touted as an offensively skilled top-6 potential guy, but he's turned out to be much more of a two-way, shutdown C. I know a lot of folks on here consider Backlund a legit 2C but I'm not entirely sold. His offensive numbers throughout his career suggest that he's closer to a 3C than a 2C. Not a knock on Backs, either. I love his game and what he brings to the table, but he didn't exactly pan out the way some of us had expected/hoped. Granlund, it looks to be a different story. I don't think many fans saw legit top-6 potential when we initially drafted him, and honestly I expected him to develop into a player similar to what Backlund is today (assuming he reached his potential). But all things indicate that Granny seriously possesses the skill to be a true top-6 C. His transition to the pro NA game has been exceptional and he's hardly had any difficulty adjusting to NHL pace. You're right about his draft position. If he had been a 1st rounder, not just Flames fans but probably fans across the league would be taking serious notice of him.

 

[Anglesmith]

If Granlund was a former mid 1st round pick, the hype on him from our fanbase would enormous by now. He's developed exactly the way you could hope for, and he's been one of our best contributors this season.

I don't know what his ceiling is, but he's a highly skilled player so I think it's pretty good. Him and Backs are different players, but I think Granlund has higher offensive potential.

If Granlund was a mid-first round pick, we'd have already given up on him given how many years it's taken him to get here.

 

[kirant]

Assuming we can get to the point where everyone is healthy once again with very little consideration for chemistry (Note - I do think this assumption may be a bit difficult given how difficult it has been to do that so far this year):

Raymond - Backlund - Hudler
Gaudreau - Monahan - Colborne
Glencross - Jooris - Byron
Bouma - Stajan - Jones
McGrattan, Bollig

Waive: Setoguchi

Call ups: Granlund, Ferland, Baertschi, Setoguchi (if not claimed)

Giordano - Brodie
Russell - Wideman
Smid - Engelland
Dias

Hiller
Ramo

Notes:
- Glencross and Gaudreau are interchangeable. I recall Gaudreau and Jooris worked well together in the preseason but I feel Monahan and Gaudreau are just getting started for working well together.
- You could probably even swap Gaudreau and Raymond. Gaudreau and Hudler work well together as well.
- These lines are as interchangeable as hell. I can't tell you which of the top 2 lines is really the top line and which of the middle two would get more ice time...just that the bottom line is special teams oriented.
- Jones and Bollig may be interchangable. Bollig plays a more physical game more suited for the 4th line but Jones brings an offensive game that is underrated at this point. How he looks post-injury may be questionable though
- If you're really feeling daring, you could waive Bollig to keep Granlund up. This would force a competition of who gets to play each night and force these players to bring their all. In that case, Jooris likely would take the 4th C position for Granlund to be 3rd C. Things get even more muddled from there on out.

 

[robbie111]

Assuming we can get to the point where everyone is healthy once again (with very little consideration for chemistry):

Raymond - Backlund - Hudler
Gaudreau - Monahan - Colborne
Glencross - Jooris - Byron
Bouma - Stajan - Jones
McGrattan, Bollig
Call ups: Granlund, Baertschi
Waive: Setoguchi

Giordano - Brodie
Russell - Wideman
Smid - Engelland
Dias

Hiller
Ramo

Notes:
- Glencross and Gaudreau are interchangeable. I recall Gaudreau and Jooris worked well together in the preseason but I feel Monahan and Gaudreau are just getting started for working well together.
- You could probably even swap Gaudreau and Raymond. Gaudreau and Hudler work well together as well.
- These lines are as interchangeable as hell. I can't tell you which of the top 2 lines is really the top line and which of the middle two would get more ice time...just that the bottom line is special teams oriented.
- If you're really feeling daring, you could waive Bollig to keep Granlund up. This would force a competition of who gets to play each night and force these players to bring their all. In that case, Jooris likely would take the 4th C position for Granlund to be 3rd C. Things get even more muddled from there on out.

Granlund has 8 pts in 9 games and is the best offensive forward in PPG that the flames have. No way he sits or is sent down.

 

[kirant]

Granlund has 8 pts in 9 games and is the best offensive forward in PPG that the flames have. No way he sits or is sent down.

PPG is a bit of a difficult stat for me to use at this point since we're talking small numbers (generally I look at 25-40 games as a decent measure). After his first game, Derek Stepan had a 3 PPG average (He's a great player but 3 PPG is a bit high. I digress though...)

I love Granlund too and the past few games are showing that he's coming into his own but decisions beyond making the best possible team now start playing in. Ideally, I would waive two players and force one guy to sit every night (which would follow that situation I described in my last post) but GM optics and money may start playing in this situation...I'm not sure how many players would be excited to join a team which waives an asset it just traded a 3rd for. I suspect some want NHL roster security. Past that, I'm not sure if the ownership is willing to pay more 1-way contracts in the AHL. Though, that may just be a delusion of mine since this team is pretty much struggling to make cap floor to begin with.

I guess it came to this for me: if I had to make a choice between Jooris and Granlund, I'd take Jooris based on the slot he'll be filling in for in the roster alignment I've listed. Really though, there is no wrong answer.

Of course, waiving McGrattan is an option in that case and letting our scratches be the unlucky man of the night and Bollig/Jones is another route. But that also involves waiving McGrattan and I'm not sure where management stands on that. As a person who thinks pure enforcers are finally biting the dust, I'd be willing to do it...but I'm not sure where the team stands.

Edit - Bear in mind too that this assumes a 100% healthy roster. I can't see that happening and 1-2 injuries to that forward roster should be expected on an ongoing basis. I would suspect, in that case, that both Granlund and Jooris will continue to play regular minutes.

 

[robbie111]

PPG is a bit of a difficult stat for me to use at this point since we're talking small numbers (generally I look at 25-40 games as a decent measure). After his first game, Derek Stepan had a 3 PPG average (He's a great player but 3 PPG is a bit high. I digress though...)

I love Granlund too and the past few games are showing that he's coming into his own but decisions beyond making the best possible team now start playing in. Ideally, I would waive two players and force one guy to sit every night (which would follow that situation I described in my last post) but GM optics and money may start playing in this situation...I'm not sure how many players would be excited to join a team which waives an asset it just traded a 3rd for. I suspect some want NHL roster security. Past that, I'm not sure if the ownership is willing to pay more 1-way contracts in the AHL. Though, that may just be a delusion of mine since this team is pretty much struggling to make cap floor to begin with.

I guess it came to this for me: if I had to make a choice between Jooris and Granlund, I'd take Jooris based on the slot he'll be filling in for in the roster alignment I've listed. Really though, there is no wrong answer.

Of course, waiving McGrattan is an option in that case and letting our scratches be the unlucky man of the night and Bollig/Jones is another route. But that also involves waiving McGrattan and I'm not sure where management stands on that. As a person who thinks pure enforcers are finally biting the dust, I'd be willing to do it...but I'm not sure where the team stands.

Edit - Bear in mind too that this assumes a 100% healthy roster. I can't see that happening and 1-2 injuries to that forward roster should be expected on an ongoing basis. I would suspect, in that case, that both Granlund and Jooris will continue to play regular minutes.

Fair enough, but because of our injuries to forward I decided to make a chart that might surprise some folks on here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thought I'd make a PPG chart for the Flames so far this year to show the forwards to help this discussion.

1. Granlund .889 8 Pts 9 GP
2. Hudler .789 15Pts 19 GP
3. Colborne .727 8 Pts 11 GP
4. Raymond .700 7 Pts 10 GP
5. Gaudreau .684 13 Pts 19 GP
6. Monahan .600 12 Pts 20 GP
7. Jooris .538 7 Pts 13 GP
8. Glencross .500 10 Pts 20 GP
9. Jones .500 5 Pts 10 GP
10. Baertschi .429 3 Pts 7 GP
11.Bouma .421 8 Pts 19 GP
12. Byron .400 8 Pts 20 GP
13. Backlund .364 4 Pts 11 GP
14. Stajan .182 2 Pts 11 GP
15.Bollig .105 2 Pts 19 GP
16. Ferland .000 0 Pts 1 GP
17.Reinhart .000 0 Pts 3 GP
18.McGrattan .000 0 Pts 7 GP
19. Setoguchi .000 0 Pts 11 GP

Granlund has been our best offensive threat this year. The lines sorted from Pts would be.

Colborne-Granlund-Hudler
Gaudreau-Monahan-Raymond
Glencross-Jooris-Jones
Baertschi-Bouma-Byron
Backlund Stajan

I could add +/- in if anyone wants that too. Just thought it was interesting and don't see anyway they send Granlund or Jooris down at this point.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

If Granlund was a mid-first round pick, we'd have already given up on him given how many years it's taken him to get here.

The closest example of that we can use is Baertachi, he's from the same draft and went 13th. I think most people are prepared to give Sven until next year before really deciding anything concrete on him.

Baertschi lit the WHL on fire, so expectations for him were very high. Most thought he had top line potential written all over him (I still do for the record).

Granlund played in a different developmental league, but since coming to North America and turning pro he's been very good. In 60 games in the AHL he has a 0.85 PPG average. In the 16 NHL games he has a 0.69 PPG average.

I can't help but think if he was drafted where Sven was, many would be saying he's for sure either top 6 or top line player. Personally I think if Granlund continues down the road he's going, he could end up being similar player to a Mika Koivu.

No one really had any expectations of Granlund doing anything in the NHL until he came over last year. I love how he's developed and I am very excited about him.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Also, Bollig and Grats should not even be in the conversation about making room for guys like Granlund and Sven. Those guys will never be 4th line players where is exactly where Bollig and Grats play. Bollig can also play RW so that gives us a little more options when Stajan comes back, you can roll with a: Bouma/Stajan/Bollig 4th line and have Grats an extra forward.

 

[SaintMorose]

For Granlund to stay up he needs to be able to force Colborne, Jooris, Byron, and Bouma to wing and out-produce Stajan in the top 9.

I really think he has done that thus far and rolling
Monahan
Backlund/Granlund
Granlund/Backlund
Stajan
as our centres is probably the best we can do unless someone falls off.

It's hard to see us as ever being 100% completely healthy when we have a top 9 with Jones+Backlund+Glencross

so I would have Gaudreau, Colborne, Glencross, Hudler, Byron, Jones and Jooris in for whichever of those 10 (6+4centres) is injured, then Bouma - Bollig/Grats on the 4th line.

Leaves space to have Sven in the line-up for the most part (2 forward injures) or 1st call-up
and Ferland not far behind.

Seto stays up as it's easy to carry 2 forwards who won't play in the majority of games.

 

[CraigsList]

Unfortunately for Sven, Gaudreau, Jooris and Granlund are above him, which barely squeezes him out of a roster spot. Treliving needs to assure Sven that he loves what he has seen and will be the first call up when one is injured (which is likely). Monahan, Backlund and Granlund can all switch out as the top line, it'll just really depend on the matchup. However, I do think Monahan is running away with the 1C role. When everyone is healthy (which won't happen), my lines are:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Colborne
Glencross - Backlund - Hudler
Raymond - Granlund - Jooris
Bouma - Stajan - Byron
Bollig, McGrattan

Hell, even that 4th line can play some good minutes. We definitely have the ability to roll out 4 lines.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Unfortunately for Sven, Gaudreau, Jooris and Granlund are above him, which barely squeezes him out of a roster spot. Treliving needs to assure Sven that he loves what he has seen and will be the first call up when one is injured (which is likely). Monahan, Backlund and Granlund can all switch out as the top line, it'll just really depend on the matchup. However, I do think Monahan is running away with the 1C role. When everyone is healthy (which won't happen), my lines are:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Colborne
Glencross - Backlund - Hudler
Raymond - Granlund - Jooris
Bouma - Stajan - Byron
Bollig, McGrattan

Hell, even that 4th line can play some good minutes. We definitely have the ability to roll out 4 lines.

FFF, I agree with all that 1000%.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Fair enough, but because of our injuries to forward I decided to make a chart that might surprise some folks on here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thought I'd make a PPG chart for the Flames so far this year to show the forwards to help this discussion.

1. Granlund .889 8 Pts 9 GP
2. Hudler .789 15Pts 19 GP
3. Colborne .727 8 Pts 11 GP
4. Raymond .700 7 Pts 10 GP
5. Gaudreau .684 13 Pts 19 GP
6. Monahan .600 12 Pts 20 GP
7. Jooris .538 7 Pts 13 GP
8. Glencross .500 10 Pts 20 GP
9. Jones .500 5 Pts 10 GP
10. Baertschi .429 3 Pts 7 GP
11.Bouma .421 8 Pts 19 GP
12. Byron .400 8 Pts 20 GP
13. Backlund .364 4 Pts 11 GP
14. Stajan .182 2 Pts 11 GP
15.Bollig .105 2 Pts 19 GP
16. Ferland .000 0 Pts 1 GP
17.Reinhart .000 0 Pts 3 GP
18.McGrattan .000 0 Pts 7 GP
19. Setoguchi .000 0 Pts 11 GP

Granlund has been our best offensive threat this year. The lines sorted from Pts would be.

Colborne-Granlund-Hudler
Gaudreau-Monahan-Raymond
Glencross-Jooris-Jones
Baertschi-Bouma-Byron
Backlund Stajan

I could add +/- in if anyone wants that too. Just thought it was interesting and don't see anyway they send Granlund or Jooris down at this point.

Nice job! First thing I noticed, that ppg pace seems completely unsustainable for a lot of our players. 9 guys above a 0.5ppg pace.

 

[CraigsList]

FFF, I agree with all that 1000%.

I forgot Jones... Uhh.... Jones is on the IR

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I forgot Jones... Uhh.... Jones is on the IR

It's easy to happen when someone only plays in 25% of your games

The Flames should make a move. I wouldn't at all mind seeing a forward or a forward and dman packaged for an upgrade on defence.

 

[Lunatik]

I forgot Jones... Uhh.... Jones is on the IR

I thought he was just scratched. If he was on IR I think we would have seen another call-up

 

[CraigsList]

I thought he was just scratched. If he was on IR I think we would have seen another call-up

I was making a lineup with all healthy players and forgot to include Jones. That's why I said he is on the IR .

 

[Lunatik]

I was making a lineup with all healthy players and forgot to include Jones. That's why I said he is on the IR .

Oh, my mistake.

 

[MonahanTheMan]

You guys are saying we should keep Granlund up because he has eight points in nine games

That's such a small sample size it's ridiculous. I agree with keeping him up, but that's because his game is intriguing and he looks comfortable in this league, not because he has eight points in nine games. If you belong in the NHL, you should play in the NHL.

So, for the record, I'd like a healthy forward roster to look like

Gaudreau - Monahan - Hudler
Glencross - Backlund - Colborne
Raymond - Granlund - Byron
Bouma - Stajan - Bollig
Jones, McGrattan

Waive Setoguchi, he's got to be among the worst players in the league this year

 

[CraigsList]

No Jooris MTM?

 

[MonahanTheMan]

No Jooris MTM?

I really like him as a player but I think he still has things to learn in the AHL, whereas I don't think that's the case for GranMa and Gaudreau. It pains me to send him down, but in my opinion he is the least NHL-ready of the prospects we have called up right now.

At the same time, though, as many in this thread have pointed out, there is a high chance we'll never be icing a totally healthy roster this year, so he could probably stay up by default.

 

[Skobel24]

I know a lot of folks on here consider Backlund a legit 2C but I'm not entirely sold. His offensive numbers throughout his career suggest that he's closer to a 3C than a 2C.

He's a very reliable 3rd line center, who can log top 6 minutes if need be. I don't think Backlund will ever be a legitimate top 6 center.