Player Discussion Adam Larsson: Part III

[MessierII]

We had the depth to fill the hole Hall left. New Jersey did not have the depth to fill the hole Larsson left.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

We had the depth to fill the hole Hall left. New Jersey did not have the depth to fill the hole Larsson left.

To be fair, we had depth when we signed Lucic. He filled, on paper at least, the 1LW hole.

New Jersey did not address that depth problem. They tried with Ben Lovejoy and Kyle Quincey, but it didn't go well. Lovejoy was awful. Combine with Greene taking a big step back and Severson not delivering as hoped, not filling that hole hurt New Jersey.

 

[MaxR11]

Well, if you read the post I was alluding to, apparently Hall was responsible for the Devils not producing enough offence and not stopping enough pucks

And there is merit to that train of thought. The oil did not have a good overall offence when Hall was here even though he did "get his points" for the most part. I believe something in his game and his attitude affects the entire team and individual players on his team in a negative way. It's almost like the opposite of Gretzky where he makes EVERYONE on his team better. Somehow I strongly believe Hall makes his teammates for the most part worse. Selfishness? Calling out or alienating players he deems inferior? Something, I'm not exactly sure what but he brings a sort of negative energy to the team and hinders other players from playing with confidence in their roles. At least I believe that was the case here. Not sure about NJ. Though I do believe there is a connection between him being there and the NJ offence not improving any from last year, other NJ players playing worse this year than last and allowing many more goals than last year. I think in a subconscious way his lack of care for sound reliable defence spreads through the team and this makes it difficult for the goalie. Schneider not playing well this year MAY be attributed to Hall's presence on the team.
People need to rethink the thought that "more talented equals a better player and a positive effect on the team". In fact if you are a "perceived" better player, you will see more ice time and be on the ice in more critical situations. And if you are given this opportunity but you are a selfish d^(& and mainly care about your points or looking sick out on the ice, you will have a negative affect on your team as a whole.

 

[Game 8]

And there is merit to that train of thought. The oil did not have a good overall offence when Hall was here even though he did "get his points" for the most part. I believe something in his game and his attitude affects the entire team and individual players on his team in a negative way. It's almost like the opposite of Gretzky where he makes EVERYONE on his team better. Somehow I strongly believe Hall makes his teammates for the most part worse. Selfishness? Calling out or alienating players he deems inferior? Something, I'm not exactly sure what but he brings a sort of negative energy to the team and hinders other players from playing with confidence in their roles. At least I believe that was the case here. Not sure about NJ. Though I do believe there is a connection between him being there and the NJ offence not improving any from last year, other NJ players playing worse this year than last and allowing many more goals than last year. I think in a subconscious way his lack of care for sound reliable defence spreads through the team and this makes it difficult for the goalie. Schneider not playing well this year MAY be attributed to Hall's presence on the team.

And we could continue to speculate we can possibly find links to Hall being responsable for world hungar! I think you maybe reading to much into this lol. Could it be as simple as Larsson being a very underrated defensemen and stabilizing influence on a team? Heck look how great our defense looks!

 

[MaxR11]

And we could continue to speculate we can possibly find links to Hall being responsable for world hungar! I think you maybe reading to much into this lol. Could it be as simple as Larsson being a very underrated defensemen and stabilizing influence on a team? Heck look how great our defense looks!

lol, no question, Larsson has been our best and overall most consistent d man this year. He's been one of the top contributors to the Oil success this year no doubt.

 

[joestevens29]

To be fair, we had depth when we signed Lucic. He filled, on paper at least, the 1LW hole.

New Jersey did not address that depth problem. They tried with Ben Lovejoy and Kyle Quincey, but it didn't go well. Lovejoy was awful. Combine with Greene taking a big step back and Severson not delivering as hoped, not filling that hole hurt New Jersey.

Well we kinda knew we had Lucic when that deal went down. We did also have Maroon and Pouilot to help on the LW. Even if we needed some help at wing it's a lot easier to get a winger than that huge hole we had on d.

I said from the beginning though that I didn't understand what NJ was really doing. They needed d help even with Larsson, so what were they trying to do? All they really had to do was look at the Oilers and see that making your d even weaker is a bad move. Unless of course you had a contingency plan to make another deal

 

[Raab]

I think Chia made the deal because he knew we had Lucic. In saying that after watching this season, I would make the deal again even without Lucic coming in. Larsson is an absolute beast!

 

[Zaddy]

This narrative needs to die.

the amount of "SEE LARSSON IS BETTER THAN HALL THE OILERZ WON THE TRADE" that is going on in this forum, social media and mainstream media, is borderline sickening.

Having to bastardize a player to prop up another is not a good way to go, especially a player that was not the problem on the Oilers.

I love Adam Larsson. I've been a booster of his since the trade happened. I disagree very strongly when somebody points out that he's overrated because he doesn't produce a good Corsi or suggest he's only a number three defenceman because he doesn't lead in TOI on his team. What he brings isn't really quantified yet in Advance Stats (IMO). He's a top pairing guy who plays against top competition and often starts in his own zone. He brought a much needed element that the Oilers lacked, which was balance and you know, a strong defensive game.

That said, the constant downplaying of Taylor Hall is getting pretty bad. For example, a poster above corralates that New Jersey didn't get better because they added Hall. Hall was injured, still managed to contribute 53 points, despite missing 8 games. He was part of nearly 30% of New Jersey's total offence.

Instead of blaming Hall for the lack of offence, where were other pieces like Michael Cammerleri? He had only 10 goals and 31 points in 61 games.

Or then the same poster mentions how the Devils went down in Goals allowed. However, was there any mention of their goaltender, Cory Schneider, having a down year with a bad 0.908 save percentage? No. Apparently that's Hall's fault too.

I'm happy with the trade that it's worked out, but let's not say that the Oilers fleeced the Devils. Both teams got a really good player. Right now, the narrative that Larsson> Hall looks like a desperate validation.

I didn't bash or blame Hall in my post at all. I just stated that acquiring him didn't seem to solve NJ's scoring issues. And I also explained this further in my post that moving D pieces for O pieces just generally does not work, unless you have great defensive depth, because if you do not have d-men who can defend and get the puck out of the zone, a great offensive player like Hall doesn't really help.

There's a reason Oilers sucked all those years and actually wasn't a particularly high-scoring team despite high-end offensive talent; they just didn't have the d-men to support the forwards. This is the exact situation the Devils have now put themselves in. They are not scoring more despite adding a high-caliber forward, but on the other hand they're letting in more goals. I'm not saying that's on Hall, I'm just saying that's what happens when you move a top pair defenseman without anyone to replace him.

Yes, Schneider had a very bad year by his standards and I'm sure that played part in the increased amount of goals against, but, perhaps, having their d-men play above their heads for the entire year could have something to do with Schneider having a bad year as well. I'm sure you remember how the Oilers D hung out their goalies to dry in years past. I'm not sure if that's what happened in NJ this year as I do not watch them that much, but it seems like a plausible theory to me.

Either way, a player like Larsson means so much more to a team than a player like Hall IMO. The way I see it, on a winning team Hall is a luxury piece while Larsson is a core piece. If you don't have guys like Larsson chances are your team isn't going to be very successful.

 

[Raab]

Well we kinda knew we had Lucic when that deal went down. We did also have Maroon and Pouilot to help on the LW. Even if we needed some help at wing it's a lot easier to get a winger than that huge hole we had on d.

I said from the beginning though that I didn't understand what NJ was really doing. They needed d help even with Larsson, so what were they trying to do? All they really had to do was look at the Oilers and see that making your d even weaker is a bad move. Unless of course you had a contingency plan to make another deal

Look at their forwards now though. If they could sign a half decent dman like Alzner I don't think it will take them long to term around. There's no way they we're getting a player like Hall through free agency. Alzner doesn't fill the void that Larsson left, but he's another stable dman who can help balance the team.

 

[joestevens29]

I just love Larsson's game even without the offense. The fact now that he stepped up is just something this team had lacked for years and is continuing to show they have overcome. That is guys who shouldn't be putting up points are doing it and winning games for us.

 

[tiger_80]

Well we kinda knew we had Lucic when that deal went down. We did also have Maroon and Pouilot to help on the LW. Even if we needed some help at wing it's a lot easier to get a winger than that huge hole we had on d.

I said from the beginning though that I didn't understand what NJ was really doing. They needed d help even with Larsson, so what were they trying to do? All they really had to do was look at the Oilers and see that making your d even weaker is a bad move. Unless of course you had a contingency plan to make another deal

I guess they overestimated the impact Taylor Hall would have on their anemic offense. Their team is really horrible. Nearly Oilers' level horrible, when Hall was drafted. They'll spend the next 5 years in the basement until they fill the holes through the draft.

 

[McAsuno]

lol what? Possession and scoring chances and shots don't matter? In what sport? Certainly not hockey. I mean, that's how you score goals.

The Oilers are winning and the Devils are losing are not mutually about Larsson and Hall alone. That's the problem here. It's very short sighted. Are you saying that a healthy Klefbom, a healthy McDavid, a Vezina like season from Talbot all less important than having Adam Larsson? Because I'd have a tough time believing that. I think Larsson has been important but let's not kid ourselves.

Hall was a 53 point winger, on pace for 60 points, which would have been a team lead. On the Oilers, he would have been third behind McDavid and Draisaitl.

Again, you're making it sound like Hall was responsible for the team's "inability to win". The problem here is the following:

Hall's teams had defencemen like Andrew Ference, Andy Sutton, Jim Vandermeer, Cam Barker, Nikita Nikitin, Anton Belov, Nick Schultz, Alex Plante, Colton Teubert, Brad Hunt, Mark Fistric, Theo Peckham and much more bad on the backend.

Hall's teams had goaltending gems like an old Nikolai Khabibulin, Jason Labarbera, Devan Dubnyk before being outstanding, Ben Scrivens, Viktor Fasth,Ilya Bryzgalov.

The argument that the team couldn't win with Hall is crap. Of course they couldn't. They didn't supply his core with actual NHL players. That's on management, not Taylor Hall.

Yep, I agree with this. Not sure why fans have to continuously slag Hall at this point. He's no longer an Oiler. Who cares? We're all glad to have Larsson who's been an absolute stud for our team in the backend. Move on, everyone.

I even went WTF when Matheson asked McLellan about the Larsson/Hall crap after last night's post game. The media especially needs to let it go. Spector's latest article was just asking for click baits when he added Hall's name. This crap's gone tiresome like talking about an ex from the past.

 

[MessierII]

Yep, I agree with this. Not sure why fans have to continuously slag Hall at this point. He's no longer an Oiler. Who cares? We're all glad to have Larsson who's been an absolute stud for our team in the backend. Move on, everyone.

I even went WTF when Matheson asked McLellan about the Larsson/Hall crap after last night's post game. The media especially needs to let it go. Spector's latest article was just asking for click baits when he added Hall's name. This crap's gone tiresome like talking about an ex from the past.

When 90% of the fan base wouldn't shut up about how Chiarelli is the worst GM ever and Taylor Hall is the best winger in the league, worst trade of all time and other non sense can you really blame some original supporters of the trade for slagging Hall. Hall deserves a slagging he's had 3 straight sub par seasons and just isn't as good as oiler fans built him up to be in their minds.

 

[BigFuzzyDice]

I guess they overestimated the impact Taylor Hall would have on their anemic offense. Their team is really horrible. Nearly Oilers' level horrible, when Hall was drafted. They'll spend the next 5 years in the basement until they fill the holes through the draft.

This is exactly why they traded for hall. Shero Knew they needed to draft early and often, Halls flash and crash keeps the minions watching amused while the actual net negative of him eating up top line minutes with failed rushes and beastly shot totals to the goalies logo help to power the team awesome lotto odds. They'll ride him to dfl one more season and trade him for picks before the contract expires the year after.

Chia wins the golden balaclava. Larsson-y at its finest.

Lars became my favorite oiler about a minute after the trade happened.

 

[Raab]

I guess they overestimated the impact Taylor Hall would have on their anemic offense. Their team is really horrible. Nearly Oilers' level horrible, when Hall was drafted. They'll spend the next 5 years in the basement until they fill the holes through the draft.

Not even close to Oiler level brutal. We had JFJ on the top line for part of the year, and Khabibulin as our starter. In comparison NJ has Schneider who is a legit starter in the league, and a great group of forwards who are mostly young and growing. Hall, Henrique, Zacha, Palmieri, DSP, Bennett, Wood, Quenneville, Mcleod, Speers. On top of that they'll be adding another good young player this year at the draft. They also have a good possibility of moving up sitting at 4th. Hardly a dire situation. They just need a few good UFA signing similar to Edmonton with Lucic, Sekera, and Russell and it could totally turn them around. Dont know if they'd be contenders, but they'd for sure be in the running for a playoff spot.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I don't give a **** about Haylor Tall anymore. I hope he goes on to have a successful career but it's all about Adam Larsson now and I was content with the trade at the time and now I'm ecstatic about it. And it's not just because of the two goal game last night. It's because we finally have a legitimate top pairing, something we haven't had since Smith/Pronger. Defense wins championships and now we have an actual NHL caliber defense.

I was considering getting a Larsson jersey for the past few weeks, I might have to make good on that.

 

[McAsuno]

When 90% of the fan base wouldn't shut up about how Chiarelli is the worst GM ever and Taylor Hall is the best winger in the league, worst trade of all time and other non sense can you really blame some original supporters of the trade for slagging Hall. Hall deserves a slagging he's had 3 straight sub par seasons and just isn't as good as oiler fans built him up to be in their minds.

In defense of the fanbase, we weren't the only one that ridiculed the trade at that time. The hockey media in general along with other fanbases did as well, or are you just gonna generalize our fanbase and forget everybody else?

Not sure what makes you think he deserves slagging either. Larsson didn't deserve any slagging when we first heard of him being traded here, and neither does Hall who's no longer an Oiler. So who gives a ****? Its the playoffs, and we got fans talking down on Hall, rather than talk about our team taking game 1 against the ducks. Get over the Hall trade and crapping, already.

 

[A91]

I don't give a **** about Haylor Tall anymore. I hope he goes on to have a successful career but it's all about Adam Larsson now and I was content with the trade at the time and now I'm ecstatic about it. And it's not just because of the two goal game last night. It's because we finally have a legitimate top pairing, something we haven't had since Smith/Pronger. Defense wins championships and now we have an actual NHL caliber defense.

I was considering getting a Larsson jersey for the past few weeks, I might have to make good on that.

What makes it even sweeter is that their combined cap is 8.4 million long term. It's beautiful.

 

[tiger_80]

Not even close to Oiler level brutal. We had JFJ on the top line for part of the year, and Khabibulin as our starter. In comparison NJ has Schneider who is a legit starter in the league, and a great group of forwards who are mostly young and growing. Hall, Henrique, Zacha, Palmieri, DSP, Bennett, Wood, Quenneville, Mcleod, Speers. On top of that they'll be adding another good young player this year at the draft. They also have a good possibility of moving up sitting at 4th. Hardly a dire situation. They just need a few good UFA signing similar to Edmonton with Lucic, Sekera, and Russell and it could totally turn them around. Dont know if they'd be contenders, but they'd for sure be in the running for a playoff spot.

The stats say otherwise. 70 points this year vs 62 points by the Oilers in 2010-11. The Oilers had decent players too for stretches of time (remember when Hall was more than a PPG player and RNH looked like the future 1C).

 

[McAsuno]

The stats say otherwise. 70 points this year vs 62 points by the Oilers in 2010-11. The Oilers had decent players too for stretches of time (remember when Hall was more than a PPG player and RNH looked like the future 1C).

The problem however for that was the management relied on those two including Eberle and Schultz to carry the Oilers. The supporting cast from the old rosters along with the horrific defense did way more harm than good. Add the fact that the drafting was extremely poor by Stu MacGregor and crew. Its great that we have a management that knows how and what it takes to win rather than an old boys club regime that arrogantly used their past glory to justify themselves. Can't express how much I despise guys like MacT or Lowe (management wise).

 

[redgrant]

The stats say otherwise. 70 points this year vs 62 points by the Oilers in 2010-11. The Oilers had decent players too for stretches of time (remember when Hall was more than a PPG player and RNH looked like the future 1C).

Agreed. Its a big myth that Hall was some sort of "driver". He got prime minutes on a garbage team and was never able to drag his team to a single playoff the way a guy like Tavares has.

If people are going to throw words like driver around they need to look at a guy like Leon and refer to Klef's comments on Hall and how he never ever showed up when the team needed someone to rise to the occassion.

 

[kurtcobang]

I just love Larsson's game even without the offense. The fact now that he stepped up is just something this team had lacked for years and is continuing to show they have overcome. That is guys who shouldn't be putting up points are doing it and winning games for us.

Thx for attempting to get this thread back on track.
Enough Hall crap who cares?
Larsson just played the best game of his career and still i have to read about 3 pages of god dam Taylor Hall
Anyway Larsson is clearly our best defenseman. Adding a little bit of offense is just icing at this point
Trade of the year easily and should gurantee Chia executive of the year. Took some huge balls to pull the trigger, something MacT and Tambo never had!

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

Yep, I agree with this. Not sure why fans have to continuously slag Hall at this point.

It's the Oiler way or, hopefully at least, used to be the Oiler way.

 

[tempest2i]

Larsson was great last night. I'm not expecting him to turn into Lidstrom or anything, but it's nice to know the hockey gods will reward him every once in a while.

 

[MaxR11]

Agreed. Its a big myth that Hall was some sort of "driver". He got prime minutes on a garbage team and was never able to drag his team to a single playoff the way a guy like Tavares has.

If people are going to throw words like driver around they need to look at a guy like Leon and refer to Klef's comments on Hall and how he never ever showed up when the team needed someone to rise to the occassion.

That's a bingo! Not just Klef's comments but Scrivs and Kassian's. I remember hearing the Kassian interview on Hall last summer and thinking "o man for sure Kass is going to take a run at Hall" because it was clear Kass did not like Hall. Sure enough, Kass probably chirped Hall in that faceoff and Hall lost his sh&* and gave Kass a cheap shot elbow to the chops. So awesome to see Kass beat and rag doll Hall. Have to say I was so happy to see that. Really really dislike Hall. I'm sure the general sentiment is similar in the Oiler dressing room.