Player Discussion Adam Larsson: Part III

[Pools Closed*]

Chia is a very smart man. He knew he wanted to get rid of Hall to improve the team culture, unity and overall responsible and TEAM play on the ice and he did. And it WORKED. I pretty much know the organization was wanting to get rid of Hall last summer almost to the point of no matter what they got in return. We got lucky and Larsson has really developed into a solid defender for us this year. I'll say it again. If we magically got Hall back on this roster and gave up nothing, we would be a WORSE team. Team unity, belief, cohesiveness mental strength and team play on ice will would decrease. His unwillingness to play a total team game would spread to other players and they would also start to play a bit more of the cheating and irresponsible side of things and things could easily unravel from there. It's a fine line between playing as a cohesively strong team and playing slightly more like individuals. Little things could set of a domino affect in the wrong direction.

Funny how people always bring up that Hall is a locker room cancer despite no evidence. The guy had won everywhere he played up until coming here and then getting traded to NJ. Hall was the only one on the team for 3 years who gave it 100% every night, no matter how far out of the playoffs we were or how badly we were losing. In his last season here he took massive strides defensively and bought in to Mclellan's system. We were lucky to have him and to say that we'd be worse off with him is pure idiocy. If we had more players who had his compete level during those dark years he'd probably have a couple playoff goals under his belt by now. I wish him well in New Jersey and I'd love to see him lift a cup one day, he deserves it.

 

[redgrant]

Hall was the only one on the team for 3 years who gave it 100% every night, no matter how far out of the playoffs we were or how badly we were losing.

Yeah like last year with McDavid where he got 3 goals in 30 games to close out the season. The guy mailed it in constantly.

He's also not very smart. In the middle of the regular season he noted he had no interest to play for Canada at the worlds. His excuse was he wanted time to rest. The running joke was he was using the last month of jersey games to rest.

So glad we got a horse like Larsson night in night out. Toughest minutes toughest opposition. Does the dirty work a guy like hall never could.

 

[shoop]

Funny how people always bring up that Hall is a locker room cancer despite no evidence.

Exhibit A: 33 point improvement by the team overall and first playoff series in 11 years in first season after Taylor Hall.

Not enough evidence? Of course not...

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

Archived footage of Chiapete letting the league know Hall was on the market..

 

[Pools Closed*]

Yeah like last year with McDavid where he got 3 goals in 30 games to close out the season. The guy mailed it in constantly.

He's also not very smart. In the middle of the regular season he noted he had no interest to play for Canada at the worlds. His excuse was he wanted time to rest. The running joke was he was using the last month of jersey games to rest.

So glad we got a horse like Larsson night in night out. Toughest minutes toughest opposition. Does the dirty work a guy like hall never could.

He slumped at the end of last season but he was always a consistent performer for us. I like Larsson a lot too but let's not pretend that Hall isn't a great player.

Exhibit A: 33 point improvement by the team overall and first playoff series in 11 years in first season after Taylor Hall.

Not enough evidence? Of course not...

That has nothing to do with Mcdavid winning the Art Ross, Klefbom staying healthy all season, Maroon scoring 27 goals, Draisaitl finishing top 10 in scoring, Talbot putting up a Vezina-calibre season, and us finally having a competent RHD though huh? I'm sure it's all because that locker room cancer Taylor Hall isn't on the team anymore! It's all his fault that the goaltending and defense sucked when he was here.

 

[BlowbyBlow]

He slumped at the end of last season but he was always a consistent performer for us. I like Larsson a lot too but let's not pretend that Hall isn't a great player.



That has nothing to do with Mcdavid winning the Art Ross, Klefbom staying healthy all season, Maroon scoring 27 goals, Draisaitl finishing top 10 in scoring, Talbot putting up a Vezina-calibre season, and us finally having a competent RHD though huh? I'm sure it's all because that locker room cancer Taylor Hall isn't on the team anymore! It's all his fault that the goaltending and defense sucked when he was here.

I think the year when Hall went to the Worlds and Mclellan was coaching and he absolutely hated him & Eberle because of there intelligence. Hall gave it hard some night, but lack of intelligence also meant he played harder to compensate for his short comings. Look at NJ they have regressed this year. GF has not changed a bit - Oilers 71 goal differential SUBSTANTIALLY better team. It's obviously the group but to put that in context WOULD Hall no matter who he was playing be able to change that differential when he possibly was the cause of it being that way.

 

[Pools Closed*]

I think the year when Hall went to the Worlds and Mclellan was coaching and he absolutely hated him & Eberle because of there intelligence. Hall gave it hard some night, but lack of intelligence also meant he played harder to compensate for his short comings. Look at NJ they have regressed this year. GF has not changed a bit - Oilers 71 goal differential SUBSTANTIALLY better team. It's obviously the group but to put that in context WOULD Hall no matter who he was playing be able to change that differential when he possibly was the cause of it being that way.

Do you have a source for Mclellan not liking Hall or Ebs? I've never heard that before. I'd chalk up New Jersey's regression to losing their best defenseman. As for our GF increasing significantly, McDavid had a 100 point season and Drai finished top 10 in scoring. Hall did his part here and put up consistently good numbers, it's not his fault that the team around him was godawful. This isn't the NBA where one player can drag a team to victory, not even McDavid could have made the playoffs with Barker, Gilbert, Potter, N. Schultz, etc. on defense.

 

[redgrant]

He slumped at the end of last season but he was always a consistent performer for us. I like Larsson a lot too but let's not pretend that Hall isn't a great player.



That has nothing to do with Mcdavid winning the Art Ross, Klefbom staying healthy all season, Maroon scoring 27 goals, Draisaitl finishing top 10 in scoring, Talbot putting up a Vezina-calibre season, and us finally having a competent RHD though huh? I'm sure it's all because that locker room cancer Taylor Hall isn't on the team anymore! It's all his fault that the goaltending and defense sucked when he was here.

Guys like you need to make up your mind. Did he give it his all every night "100%" or did he slump entire final third of the season when every single player you listed above was on the team except klefbom?

 

[Niet]

Some Oilers fans are embarrassing if they think the Hall for Larsson trade is the reason for the turn around. If you are unwilling to look at roster turnover and the fact that we have the best player in the league + Talbot + Klefbom playing like number 1 then I do not know what to tell you. I like the way Larsson plays but if he was traded tomorrow most of you would call him a number 3 to lower end number 2 defender on a good team. Larsson has helped our defense but that does not give license to fans to simply ignore every other area that improved exponentially for the team.

 

[Pools Closed*]

Guys like you need to make up your mind. Did he give it his all every night "100%" or did he slump entire final third of the season when every single player you listed above was on the team except klefbom?

Slumping doesn't necessarily have to do with effort. The effort was there at the end of last season IMO, the points weren't.

Klefbom and McDavid missed significant time, Larsson wasn't here, Talbot wasn't nearly as good as he was this season, Maroon was only here for 16 games, and Draisaitl took a huge step forward. This is not the same team as last year, and pinning their success on Hall being traded away is ridiculous.

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

Some Oilers fans are embarrassing if they think the Hall for Larsson trade is the reason for the turn around. If you are unwilling to look at roster turnover and the fact that we have the best player in the league + Talbot + Klefbom playing like number 1 then I do not know what to tell you. I like the way Larsson plays but if he was traded tomorrow most of you would call him a number 3 defender on a good team.

I'm not sure who is arguing that it is the only reason but it is the single largest reason. There are clearly other factors but filling the slot that Larsson is in allows a lot of the other things you mentioned to unfold. Do you think Klef has the season he does with Russel manning his flank? Do you think Talbot has the season he does without Larsson eating the minutes he does against the best in the league? McDavid was great this year but he is probably spending more time in his own end without Larsson filling that top pair spot. None of this even takes into account the effects of team cohesion mentioned by other posters and was mysteriously never able to develop on Halls watch.

 

[LaGu]

Schneider had his worst season in NJD this season, Talbot had his best season in EDM. Good D helps out goalies.

This value argument is semantics anyway, people see it in different ways. One group go for the "in isolation" value where Hall >> Larsson, the other for value to the team losing a player vs team gaining a player and there Larsson > Hall.

I tend to agree with the latter but I think it is pointless arguing this since people's aren't really talking about the same thing...

 

[Asiaoil]

Probably the best shutdown dman in the league right now is Vlasic. One of the obvious young guys coming up to inherit that title is Larsson. He is bordering on elite for what he does (prevent goals) which is just as important as scoring goals but doesn't get the attention since we can't count events that didn't happen very accurately. He also plays the hardest position to fill in the modern NHL - right defense.

On the other side, Taylor Hall is a very good (but not elite) left wing which is the easiest position to fill in the NHL. Any team will find it very difficult to win while their best and highest paid player is a winger since this position does not impact the game like defensemen, centers and goalies. Washington is finding that out and they did not seem to learn their lesson by wasting assets on the other well known "golden anchor" this year (offensive defensemen). That's why the "build up the middle strategy is always correct and why the previous Oiler rebuilds were total failures.

Chia corrected this mistake and we now focus on getting elite centers, well rounded effective dmen, and solid goaltending. Wingers are what you scrimp on to pay for the more important pieces in a cap league, and you never pay big dollars for a dman who can't play defense. Good luck to Taylor Hall but the trade filled a massive gap and we would not be where we are without it.

 

[Pools Closed*]

Schneider had his worst season in NJD this season, Talbot had his best season in EDM. Good D helps out goalies.

This value argument is semantics anyway, people see it in different ways. One group go for the "in isolation" value where Hall >> Larsson, the other for value to the team losing a player vs team gaining a player and there Larsson > Hall.

I tend to agree with the latter but I think it is pointless arguing this since people's aren't really talking about the same thing...

I think the argument for the former would be that Hall + Demers > Larsson + Lucic. Not sure I would necessarily agree (even though Hall is my favourite player) but it's something to think about. Klefbom and Larsson's chemistry together has been great this season but we were missing secondary scoring for most of the season and having an elite LW on the 2nd line to drive the play would be fantastic. Regardless, I'm happy to have Larsson here and it sucks that some people's opinion of him will be weighed down by what we paid for him.

 

[redgrant]

Slumping doesn't necessarily have to do with effort. The effort was there at the end of last season IMO, the points weren't.

Klefbom and McDavid missed significant time, Larsson wasn't here, Talbot wasn't nearly as good as he was this season, Maroon was only here for 16 games, and Draisaitl took a huge step forward. This is not the same team as last year, and pinning their success on Hall being traded away is ridiculous.

The final 30 games of the season everyone you listed was on the team aside from klefbom.

Well obviously not Larsson and hall.

Look the team sucked last year. Everyone magically got so much better when hall left and Larsson came I guess.

 

[Fourier]

Some Oilers fans are embarrassing if they think the Hall for Larsson trade is the reason for the turn around. If you are unwilling to look at roster turnover and the fact that we have the best player in the league + Talbot + Klefbom playing like number 1 then I do not know what to tell you. I like the way Larsson plays but if he was traded tomorrow most of you would call him a number 3 to lower end number 2 defender on a good team. Larsson has helped our defense but that does not give license to fans to simply ignore every other area that improved exponentially for the team.

There is no argument for saying that Larsson is a #3 on any team. He might play that position on some teams with great RHD. But just as Malikin is not a typical #2 because he is playing behind Crosby, Larsson would not be a typical #3 even if he was playing behind a guy like Doughty. He is one of the best defenders in the League, a physical force and actually produces points aT ES at a much better rate than most give him credit for.

 

[Pools Closed*]

The final 30 games of the season everyone you listed was on the team aside from klefbom.

Well obviously not Larsson and hall.

Look the team sucked last year. Everyone magically got so much better when hall left and Larsson came I guess.

The comparison was this season vs last season. Do you honestly think the team now without Larsson would be just as good as the team last season without Hall?

 

[Asiaoil]

Larsson is a stud and foundation of the defense. We can suvie losing Kle far more than losing Lars for any time. Foundations are not sexy but the house falls without a good one. I also give Lucic a lot of the credit for Eberle turning into an actual 2 way player which only happened after he was put on a line with Lucic mid-season. If all people want to do is count boxcars and ignore everything else....well not much to talk about.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Some Oilers fans are embarrassing if they think the Hall for Larsson trade is the reason for the turn around. If you are unwilling to look at roster turnover and the fact that we have the best player in the league + Talbot + Klefbom playing like number 1 then I do not know what to tell you. I like the way Larsson plays but if he was traded tomorrow most of you would call him a number 3 to lower end number 2 defender on a good team. Larsson has helped our defense but that does not give license to fans to simply ignore every other area that improved exponentially for the team.

Adam Larsson is already a solid first pairing defenseman on a good hockey hockey team, and it's laughable to even consider him a number 3...unless, of course, there is still a narrative that needs support.

 

[ujju2]

Some Oilers fans are embarrassing if they think the Hall for Larsson trade is the reason for the turn around. If you are unwilling to look at roster turnover and the fact that we have the best player in the league + Talbot + Klefbom playing like number 1 then I do not know what to tell you. I like the way Larsson plays but if he was traded tomorrow most of you would call him a number 3 to lower end number 2 defender on a good team. Larsson has helped our defense but that does not give license to fans to simply ignore every other area that improved exponentially for the team.

He and Klefbom are our top Dmen. He's our best defensive Dman. So it's actually you that's embarrasing yourself. You forgot that Larsson is a part of that roster turnover you mentioned.

 

[ujju2]

I give Lucic a lot of the credit for Eberle turning into an actual 2 way player which only happened after he was put on a line with Lucic mid-season. If all people want to do is count boxcars and ignore everything else....well not much to talk about.

I give more credit to McLellan for that. Lucic is great, but he's not the one coaching.

 

[ujju2]

Probably the best shutdown dman in the league right now is Vlasic. One of the obvious young guys coming up to inherit that title is Larsson. He is bordering on elite for what he does (prevent goals) which is just as important as scoring goals but doesn't get the attention since we can't count events that didn't happen very accurately. He also plays the hardest position to fill in the modern NHL - right defense.

On the other side, Taylor Hall is a very good (but not elite) left wing which is the easiest position to fill in the NHL. Any team will find it very difficult to win while their best and highest paid player is a winger since this position does not impact the game like defensemen, centers and goalies. Washington is finding that out and they did not seem to learn their lesson by wasting assets on the other well known "golden anchor" this year (offensive defensemen). That's why the "build up the middle strategy is always correct and why the previous Oiler rebuilds were total failures.

Chia corrected this mistake and we now focus on getting elite centers, well rounded effective dmen, and solid goaltending. Wingers are what you scrimp on to pay for the more important pieces in a cap league, and you never pay big dollars for a dman who can't play defense. Good luck to Taylor Hall but the trade filled a massive gap and we would not be where we are without it.

Agree with everything except Washington. The Caps have a solid, cup-calibre roster in all areas. C, LW, RW, D, G, everything.

 

[Niet]

Adam Larsson is already a solid first pairing defenseman on a good hockey hockey team, and it's laughable to even consider him a number 3...unless, of course, there is still a narrative that needs support.

Right, much like the narrative floating around that Larsson is the biggest reason for team improvement.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Right, much like the narrative floating around that Larsson is the biggest reason for team improvement.

Yeah, because that's really looking at things objectively.

You what didn't happen when we traded Taylor Hall?

We didn't implode like so many said we would.

A few fans seem to regret that not happening.

 

[IAGTTAYM]

There is no argument for saying that Larsson is a #3 on any team. He might play that position on some teams with great RHD. But just as Malikin is not a typical #2 because he is playing behind Crosby, Larsson would not be a typical #3 even if he was playing behind a guy like Doughty. He is one of the best defenders in the League, a physical force and actually produces points aT ES at a much better rate than most give him credit for.

T-46th in 5v5 points among d-men in the regular seasons between 14/15 and 16/17. 67th out of 190 (1500 min minimum) in P/60.