Books: A Song of Ice and Fire *SPOILERS* Part XV

[Emperoreddy]

Don't the vast majority of book readers agree that book 4 and 5 weren't very good?

The show has become hollywoodized. That's what many are critical of. The plot and characters aren't consistent any longer, they're just used to push us to the next huge battle and shock moment.

Not really. I've met a lot of fans of Feast and Dance. They love all the "details".

Think Dorne is the greatest thing

 

[discostu]

That's part of the problem.

So many contrivances could be made more palatable by better attention to detail.

A former strength of the show was its attention to detail. That attention is sorely lacking this season.

The attention to detail has probably suffered due to the size and scope of the show growing. It's easier for show runners to be able to manage smaller plot details when it was in the early seasons. It's a lot harder when they're choreographing major battle scenes every other episodes.

Even under better oversight, the reality is the show has transitioned from its early seasons, partly due to popularity, but partly due to the story. Even GRRM eventually has to stop killing off the main characters and build a traditional narrative.

I don't think D&D have managed that transition great, but, it's adequate, and then reality is, there isn't much to compare this to. The closest comparison in pop culture is Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings, and a single season of Game of Thrones is roughly the same amount of screen time as the trilogy, but has a lot less time in production to bring it to screen.

There show has flaws, but there's still a lots of good stuff there, IMO. The acting is still pretty solid out of most of the players (dialogue scenes like Jaime/Tyrion or Hound/Beric are treats to watch), production values are pretty incredible for a weekly show (visually, it's hard to argue they haven't done the world GRRM created justice) and the current and recent seasons, despite the writing shortcomings, benefits from the great world building of GRRM and early seasons that it makes it easier to forgive some of the sins.

It's not perfect by any means, but it's the best in genre. There's room for improvement, and, if someone else can bring this type of ambitious story to life, they'll have Game of Thrones to thank for getting the chance to do so.

 

[Miamipuck]

The attention to detail has probably suffered due to the size and scope of the show growing. It's easier for show runners to be able to manage smaller plot details when it was in the early seasons. It's a lot harder when they're choreographing major battle scenes every other episodes.

Even under better oversight, the reality is the show has transitioned from its early seasons, partly due to popularity, but partly due to the story. Even GRRM eventually has to stop killing off the main characters and build a traditional narrative.

I don't think D&D have managed that transition great, but, it's adequate, and then reality is, there isn't much to compare this to. The closest comparison in pop culture is Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings, and a single season of Game of Thrones is roughly the same amount of screen time as the trilogy, but has a lot less time in production to bring it to screen.

There show has flaws, but there's still a lots of good stuff there, IMO. The acting is still pretty solid out of most of the players (dialogue scenes like Jaime/Tyrion or Hound/Beric are treats to watch), production values are pretty incredible for a weekly show (visually, it's hard to argue they haven't done the world GRRM created justice) and the current and recent seasons, despite the writing shortcomings, benefits from the great world building of GRRM and early seasons that it makes it easier to forgive some of the sins.

It's not perfect by any means, but it's the best in genre. There's room for improvement, and, if someone else can bring this type of ambitious story to life, they'll have Game of Thrones to thank for getting the chance to do so.

I think yours is an incredibly fair and balanced point of view.

 

[Blender]

The hoops some of you will go to be completely overlook all the faults of the show is unbelievable. I am not doubting 2 of the 3 are good episodes but most acclaimed is a stretch and is purely your opinion which your trying to claim as fact.

I am not trying to claim the last 2 books were great but also not going to turn off my brain and call the last 2 seasons anything better then mediocre to terrible at times

Right, "just my opinion". Not as if anyone else thinks they are amazing episodes, nope.

Look at all that hate for the show.

You must have forgotten Ygritte then. They spent a few episodes of season 2 and the beginning of 3 building it up. Jon didn't meet Dany until what, episode 2? The show is trash.

They have spent 5 episodes building up Jon and Dany without them starting any sort of relationship with a lot of dialogue scenes between them. Jon runs into Ygritte in episode 2.6, they start talking a bit more in 2.7 and Jon is then captured by the Lord of Bones. They don't really talk in 2.8 but she pleads a case for keeping him alive. In 2.10 she frees him after he kills Qhorin and leads him into the wildling camp. They hardly chat in 3.1 and she just leads him to Mance. In 3.2 and 3.3 they are marching south with Mance but don't talk much except for plot items like wargs and the dead. 3.5 is when they have sex in the cave and start their relationship. They really don't have as much build up as you might remember, because it's actually less dialogue than with Jon and Dany, it's just stretched over more episodes.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Not really. I've met a lot of fans of Feast and Dance. They love all the "details".

Think Dorne is the greatest thing

I'm a fan of Dance. So was Lev Grossman, and most literary critics at the time. Dance won a freakin' Locus for goodness sake, and was nominated for a Hugo.

If we're going to play appeal to popularity with Rotten Tomatoes scores, there's a little appeal to authority right back at ya.

 

[Psyfer]

All you proved with that post is GoT is popular

In other news the sky is blue

 

[Blender]

All you proved with that post is GoT is popular

In other news the sky is blue

Stop moving the goalposts. I said three specific episodes were among the most acclaimed (i.e. "to announce or proclaim with enthusiastic approval") in the series, up there or above the events you mentioned as the best ones in the show. They are.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The attention to detail has probably suffered due to the size and scope of the show growing. It's easier for show runners to be able to manage smaller plot details when it was in the early seasons. It's a lot harder when they're choreographing major battle scenes every other episodes.

Even under better oversight, the reality is the show has transitioned from its early seasons, partly due to popularity, but partly due to the story. Even GRRM eventually has to stop killing off the main characters and build a traditional narrative.

I don't think D&D have managed that transition great, but, it's adequate, and then reality is, there isn't much to compare this to. The closest comparison in pop culture is Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings, and a single season of Game of Thrones is roughly the same amount of screen time as the trilogy, but has a lot less time in production to bring it to screen.

There show has flaws, but there's still a lots of good stuff there, IMO. The acting is still pretty solid out of most of the players (dialogue scenes like Jaime/Tyrion or Hound/Beric are treats to watch), production values are pretty incredible for a weekly show (visually, it's hard to argue they haven't done the world GRRM created justice) and the current and recent seasons, despite the writing shortcomings, benefits from the great world building of GRRM and early seasons that it makes it easier to forgive some of the sins.

It's not perfect by any means, but it's the best in genre. There's room for improvement, and, if someone else can bring this type of ambitious story to life, they'll have Game of Thrones to thank for getting the chance to do so.

Good take.

It is like saying it is a Michael Bat movie is kind of a dumb statement.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Good take.

It is like saying it is a Michael Bat movie is kind of a dumb statement.

You are easily rattled. The past episode was poor by the standards maintained for 6+ seasons as D&D settled for a predictable, lazy story that had numerous plot holes. I wish they had crafted a better reason to form up the bro squad and then reach the climax of having dragon die (and be resurrected), and yet here we are. I expect better from this show and I hope this season of chasing big moments and flawed story building is an aberration.

 

[Kitten Mittons]

Is Dany gonna bang her nephew? Gross.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Is Dany gonna bang her nephew? Gross.

The show started off with siblings banging, and one of the main characters crippling another primary character, who happens to be a kid, to keep that a secret. Dany banging her nephew really wouldn't move the needle much.

 

[Kitten Mittons]

The show started off with siblings banging, and one of the main characters crippling another primary character, who happens to be a kid, to keep that a secret. Dany banging her nephew really wouldn't move the needle much.

Yeah but I was against sibling sex and kid crippling. But I kind of want Jon and Dany to bang though so that's the gross part. Damn you HBO, you've made me a pervert!

 

[MadDevil]

Is Dany gonna bang her nephew? Gross.

It might be distasteful to the viewers/readers, but she doesn't know that he's her nephew. It's going to be really awkward if that comes out after they're together though. Although I guess if Dany can't have children at least there's no chance of incestual children.

 

[Brodie]

How did anybody get through five of these books without expecting that they were going to bang

 

[Kitten Mittons]

It might be distasteful to the viewers/readers, but she doesn't know that he's her nephew. It's going to be really awkward if that comes out after they're together though. Although I guess if Dany can't have children at least there's no chance of incestual children.

What about the whole thing with the sun setting on the wrong side blah blah blah... I bet when the white walkers are defeated, some **** like that is gonna go down and she'll get pregnant.

Then again, aren't Targaryens known for incest too? To protect their bloodline and whatnot?

How did anybody get through five of these books without expecting that they were going to bang

Well they could've just become besties ... after all, they're like 14 years old in the books.

 

[Brodie]

14 year olds who have already had copious amounts of sex

 

[Kitten Mittons]

14 year olds who have already had copious amounts of sex

Jon got laid like once or twice. Dany? Yeah, she dirty.

 

[Blender]

14 year olds who have already had copious amounts of sex

Adolescence is a modern concept, so them being that young isn't really odd. I think people forget that pretty often. For example, if you asked people how old Juliet was in Shakespeare's play, I don't think many would say 13.

 

[Kitten Mittons]

For example, if you asked people how old Juliet was in Shakespeare's play, I don't think many would say 13.

No wonder that dumb ***** killed herself.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Right, "just my opinion". Not as if anyone else thinks they are amazing episodes, nope.

Look at all that hate for the show.



They have spent 5 episodes building up Jon and Dany without them starting any sort of relationship with a lot of dialogue scenes between them. Jon runs into Ygritte in episode 2.6, they start talking a bit more in 2.7 and Jon is then captured by the Lord of Bones. They don't really talk in 2.8 but she pleads a case for keeping him alive. In 2.10 she frees him after he kills Qhorin and leads him into the wildling camp. They hardly chat in 3.1 and she just leads him to Mance. In 3.2 and 3.3 they are marching south with Mance but don't talk much except for plot items like wargs and the dead. 3.5 is when they have sex in the cave and start their relationship. They really don't have as much build up as you might remember, because it's actually less dialogue than with Jon and Dany, it's just stretched over more episodes.

You using IMDb and rotten tomatoes to prove your point is laughable. The fact that season 5+6 (besides a Dorne episode how fitting) is so highly rated proves its ****. The first 4 seasons>>>>>>>>> AINEC. Not even worth wasting my time debating. Like I'm going to bother what I guarantee are mostly show watchers rating these episodes not someone who knows all the books front and back like myself. Not to mention according to RT season 1 is the worst? The fact you posted that loses all of your credibility. Sorry it's gone. Season 1 is easily the best because it's most faithful to the books. The reason episodes like BotB and Hardhome are so highly rated is because of the action. It's made up fan service. Tormund would be leading the NW to hard home if they went at all. Jon would not be fighting the Boltons. Stannis is. Stannis is not going to lose. Stannis will take winterfell not Jon and wildlings who are proven to be **** in battle. A wildling army is a joke. Stannis with less then 1500 soldiers totally OWNED a wildling horde of 20-30,000 soldiers and totally and utterly defeated them. So yes fan service. A wildling army the size of Jon in botb would have gotten demolished well before the deus ex machina of the vale army could intervene.

Show watchers - Fermented Crab Lols Davos and Jon are so kewl.
Book Readers- Davos has never met or seen Jon Snow ever.

As for Ygritte vs Dany, they spent several episodes spanning two different seasons before showing any romance. Here they go from separate monarchs to soon to bang couple in 5-6 episodes. This season has been lame. D and D can't write or think of how to write a story so they decide to cut the last two seasons to 13 episodes. I could write a better season in my sleep then these two ass clowns have shown us this year. The show is merely fanfic and fan service, not smart and heartfelt writing. Case in point opening scene of season 7.

OH WOW ARYA IS SO BAD ASS SHE JUST KILLED ALL THE FREYS LOLLLL SHE IS ARYA OF HOUSE "staaahk" AND WINTER IS COMING FOR HOUSE FREY WOWWWWW

That was the lamest and most fan service scene ever shot. Not to mention totally unbelievable, fake and simply put in there to please the mouth breathing show watchers. D and D are so ****ing stupid. Turning Arya into a mix of master assassin and elite reincarnation of Daemon Blackfyre. Like a little girl is a master swordsman AND master assassin. Give me a break. Such stupid and shoddy writing.

 

[Kurtz]

You using IMDb and rotten tomatoes to prove your point is laughable. The fact that season 5+6 (besides a Dorne episode how fitting) is so highly rated proves its ****. The first 4 seasons>>>>>>>>> AINEC. Not even worth wasting my time debating. Like I'm going to bother what I guarantee are mostly show watchers rating these episodes not someone who knows all the books front and back like myself.

Show watchers - Fermented Crab Lols Davos and Jon are so kewl.
Book Readers- Davos has never met or seen Jon Snow ever.

As for Ygritte vs Dany, they spent several episodes spanning two different seasons before showing any romance. Here they go from separate monarchs to soon to bang couple in 5-6 episodes. This season has been lame. D and D can't write or think of how to write a story so they decide to cut the last two seasons to 13 episodes. I could write a better season in my sleep then these two ass clowns have shown us this year. The show is merely fanfic and fan service, not smart and heartfelt writing. Case in point opening scene of season 7.

OH WOW ARYA IS SO BAD ASS SHE JUST KILLED ALL THE FREYS LOLLLL SHE IS ARYA OF HOUSE "staaahk" AND WINTER IS COMING FOR HOUSE FREY WOWWWWW

That was the lamest and most fan service scene ever shot. Not to mention totally unbelievable, fake and simply put in there to please the mouth breathing show watchers. D and D are so ****ing stupid. Turning Arya into a mix of master assassin and elite reincarnation of Daemon Blackfyre. Like a little girl is a master swordsman AND master assassin. Give me a break. Such stupid and shoddy writing.

Why do you think your opinion is more valid than the entirety of show critics and the entirety of fans combined?

Btw, if you knew the written material as well as you claim, you'd know that in the books Arya becomes even more powerful than in the show (since she can warg into animals while still having full active control of her body - something not even Bran is capable of).

 

[Emperoreddy]

Is Dany gonna bang her nephew? Gross.

Jon is going to ride his auntie's dragon, bay bay

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Why do you think your opinion is more valid than the entirety of show critics and the entirety of fans combined?

Btw, if you knew the written material as well as you claim, you'd know that in the books Arya becomes even more powerful than in the show (since she can warg into animals while still having full active control of her body - something not even Bran is capable of).

She just became an acolyte in the books, she isn't close to being a master assassin. Not to mention her very first scene she's shown to be a master bowman also when in the books she doesn't know how to use a bow at that time. And just stop she uses the eyes of a cat when she is blind don't overrate her abilities.

And I do know the source material better then probably any one you can name.

 

[The Drop]

Why do you think your opinion is more valid than the entirety of show critics and the entirety of fans combined?

Btw, if you knew the written material as well as you claim, you'd know that in the books Arya becomes even more powerful than in the show (since she can warg into animals while still having full active control of her body - something not even Bran is capable of).

He's never getting over Stannis...

 

[The Moose]

Just curious, what's this infatuation with Stannis? Is he such a bland ******* in the books as he is in the movie? I did not read the books but in the movie his death was just a big shrug for me. I would be more pissed off if Hot Pie died than caring about Stannis fate.