Books: A Song of Ice and Fire *SPOILERS* Part XV

[Blender]

He also said he regrets making it that big because of this very problem. He just doesn't give a ****, and doesn't want readers to sweat over it either.

He isn't good with scale. He wanted to tell a story about the U.K. but he didn't understand how far 1000 miles really is. He has admitted as such.

You aren't a "Chad Summerchild" because you let the small stuff go and just enjoy it.

Also are we really using Preston's nonsense unironically now?

I can't stand most of his videos. He's shilling to a very specific group of ASOIAF fans and ignores things that are inconvenient to his argument and is often misleading as well. Tough to tell if he seriously believes all his nonsense or knows he's shilling.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

He also said he regrets making it that big because of this very problem. He just doesn't give a ****, and doesn't want readers to sweat over it either.

He isn't good with scale. He wanted to tell a story about the U.K. but he didn't understand how far 1000 miles really is. He has admitted as such.

I'm sure you can see there's a large difference between not being good with scale and deciding that scale and geography is not going to matter in any way possible. Heck, the inciting event that led to the Red Wedding was because of geography- the Stark host needed to cross a river.

You know that T Rex in Jurrasic Park? Apparently it's able to scale a 1000 foot vertical cliff to get to the humans at the top. But does Speilberg ostentatiously parade the fact that he doesn't care about geography? No. He uses smoke and mirrors to make sure the audience doesn't notice. This is possible, and D&D suck at it.

So now we get to joke about Ravens with jetpacks.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I can't stand most of his videos. He's shilling to a very specific group of ASOIAF fans and ignores things that are inconvenient to his argument and is often misleading as well. Tough to tell if he seriously believes all his nonsense or knows he's shilling.

He is extremely dishonest via omission for his "amazing" theories as some call them.

He appeals to a part of the fanbase that have the most unrealistic expectations for Winds of Winter.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I'm honestly really neutral on Stannis. I'm not a Mannis fan, but the hate he gets on the other side seems extreme too.

 

[RandV]

He's too inflexible to be a competent ruler, but he's not wrong when he complains that the Game of Thrones is heavily weighted as a popularity contest (side note: something that has been completely removed from this show this season, there's not been a single mention of how the small folk view Cersei after all of her enemies were conveniently exploded at an event from which she was fortuitiously absent).

Yeah that's really a big oversight. With the 'High Sparrow' in power and all the wars that had been going on Westeros, or at least Kings Landing, was on the verge of a massive popular revolt. The high temple with almost all her enemies in it conveniently blows up during Cersei's trial, and it all gets conveniently swept under the rug without a word?

 

[RandV]

I would put it more in the 4-6 range personally which is disappointing I do want to enjoy the show more.

I would rate the seasons as

season 1 9/10
season 2 8/10
season 3 9/10
season 4 8/10
season 5 5/10
season 6 6/10
season 7 4/10

Still has the same effect of what I'm saying. I mean everyone's entitled to their opinion, but considering all that's out there on TV if you think any season of Game of Thrones falls in the 4-5/10 range I think your perspective is skewed.

Again considering everything that is out there on TV I'd say the only way that works is rather than a 0-10 scale you're working from a -10 to +10 scale.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I'm honestly really neutral on Stannis. I'm not a Mannis fan, but the hate he gets on the other side seems extreme too.

I've always thought characters like Stannis added a touch of realism. Not everyone can be charismatic or inspirational.

 

[Kurtz]

Still has the same effect of what I'm saying. I mean everyone's entitled to their opinion, but considering all that's out there on TV if you think any season of Game of Thrones falls in the 4-5/10 range I think your perspective is skewed.

Again considering everything that is out there on TV I'd say the only way that works is rather than a 0-10 scale you're working from a -10 to +10 scale.

Yeah, this is true. The worst episode that GOT has ever done is still better than 95% of the shows out there.

Hell, you can have a full 60 minute episode of Tywin sitting on the toilet doing the Westeros Weekly crosswords puzzle, and it'd still probably be more compelling than your typical episode of the Big Bang Theory.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Yeah that's really a big oversight. With the 'High Sparrow' in power and all the wars that had been going on Westeros, or at least Kings Landing, was on the verge of a massive popular revolt. The high temple with almost all her enemies in it conveniently blows up during Cersei's trial, and it all gets conveniently swept under the rug without a word?

Plus no mention of the power vacuums that were created in Dorne, the Reach, and Stormlands when the heads of those respective houses were severed. It would take the entire Lannister army, family hostages, side deals, etc... to hold the minor houses in order. We saw a glimpse of that in Riverrun, but they have left the rest of the kingdoms up to our imagination.

It's a different approach because earlier seasons always had someone new step into the breach created when a powerful person/family was removed (e.g., the Freys or Boltons). I imagine they want to move beyond what they view as inconsequential details. That's in contrast to what GRRM has to constantly consider because of the depth he provided to his world.

 

[Kurtz]

I've always thought characters like Stannis added a touch of realism. Not everyone can be charismatic or inspirational.

Yep. Stannis is a unique character in this universe and he's a far more complex individual than folks who hate him can appreciate.

Yes, he's a staunch believer in following rules and projects a hard stance on what's right or wrong...but above all, he's a pragmatist who doesn't let morals stand in the way of a good, practical decision. (ie he harbors no belief in any God, but is perfectly willing to play along if it advances his goals), which is why he would have made an excellent ruler.

It also helps that while he is viewed as humourless, he also happens to deliver some of the funniest lines in the book.

 

[Blender]

Plus no mention of the power vacuums that were created in Dorne, the Reach, and Stormlands when the heads of those respective houses were severed. It would take the entire Lannister army, family hostages, side deals, etc... to hold the minor houses in order. We saw a glimpse of that in Riverrun, but they have left the rest of the kingdoms up to our imagination.

It's a different approach because earlier seasons always had someone new step into the breach created when a powerful person/family was removed (e.g., the Freys or Boltons). I imagine they want to move beyond what they view as inconsequential details. That's in contrast to what GRRM has to constantly consider because of the depth he provided to his world.

The Iron Throne doesn't have control of the Reach or Dorne. There hasn't been a reference to the Stormlands since season 2 really, even with Stannis still technically controlling what was left of their forces.

 

[Brodie]

Plus no mention of the power vacuums that were created in Dorne, the Reach, and Stormlands when the heads of those respective houses were severed. It would take the entire Lannister army, family hostages, side deals, etc... to hold the minor houses in order. We saw a glimpse of that in Riverrun, but they have left the rest of the kingdoms up to our imagination.

It's a different approach because earlier seasons always had someone new step into the breach created when a powerful person/family was removed (e.g., the Freys or Boltons). I imagine they want to move beyond what they view as inconsequential details. That's in contrast to what GRRM has to constantly consider because of the depth he provided to his world.

GRRM writes entire books that are the same length as the Lord of the Rings trilogy, he can include all the scope he likes in his world. That is almost impossible to adapt, though, because there just isn't enough time or the level of money needed. To truly get at the level of detail in ASOIAF, you would need something like 300 hours instead of the ~75 hours we are going to get.

 

[Emperoreddy]

GRRM writes entire books that are the same length as the Lord of the Rings trilogy, he can include all the scope he likes in his world. That is almost impossible to adapt, though, because there just isn't enough time or the level of money needed. To truly get at the level of detail in ASOIAF, you would need something like 300 hours instead of the ~75 hours we are going to get.

The show has never really concerned itself with the small folk unless seeing them served a larger purpose.

The east explanation is they are **** scared of Cersei blowing up more of the city if they get too lippy.

We absolutely don't have time to dip into local politics or lesser lords at this point. The show never really bothered with it either.

We haven't seen or spoke about the Stormlands since season 2. The crown controls it and that's is all we need to know. The crown loosely controls the Reach after taking Highgarden but Dany seems poised to take it back if she wanted.

Dorne is assumed to be leaderless and squabbling amongst themselves and thus not a concern with the current war for now. Neural Dorne is fine by me. Unless a new Sword of the Morning is planning on riding North, I'm good with never hearing from Dorne again.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Yeah that's really a big oversight. With the 'High Sparrow' in power and all the wars that had been going on Westeros, or at least Kings Landing, was on the verge of a massive popular revolt. The high temple with almost all her enemies in it conveniently blows up during Cersei's trial, and it all gets conveniently swept under the rug without a word?

I think they did resolve this one when Cersei passed it off as an accident, so this was probably announced to the people off-screen

 

[Blender]

I think they did resolve this one when Cersei passed it off as an accident, so this was probably announced to the people off-screen

She can use the Lannister army now as well. The High Sparrow was holding them a bit hostage and she couldn't just march the army into the city.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Unless a new Sword of the Morning is planning on riding North, I'm good with never hearing from Dorne again.

Yes please

Dawn is Lightbringer and N+A=D, A is alive and is Quaithe, it is known

 

[Emperoreddy]

House Dayne is definitely one of GRRM's tangents that I really love and want to learn more about.

 

[Frank the Tank]

I think they did resolve this one when Cersei passed it off as an accident, so this was probably announced to the people off-screen

Random thought... isn't the Street of Steel alongside the Sept of Baelor? Gendry has escaped death almost as much as Jon.

 

[Saskatoon]

I'm honestly really neutral on Stannis. I'm not a Mannis fan, but the hate he gets on the other side seems extreme too.

I thought when he shifted his focus north he might slowly morph into someone who attempts to lead by inspiration rather than by right (even if he wasn't very good at it). But with him being killed off in the show I imagine he will die shortly in the books as well.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

I thought when he shifted his focus north he might slowly morph into someone who attempts to lead by inspiration rather than by right (even if he wasn't very good at it). But with him being killed off in the show I imagine he will die shortly in the books as well.

Stannis isn't good at what? Leading men or inspiring them? Because he's the best in Westeros at both. All of his men are the most loyal and believe in him. One realm, one god, one king. When 1,500 soldiers defeated 30,000 stinking savages in a decisive rout they were cheering Stannis!Stannis!Stannis!, not DA KING IN DA NORF THE WHITE WOLF!

Barristan is dead in the show too. Good thing in the books he's alive and well.

Stannis is literally the best general in the realm. Unlike Tywin who got his fleet utterly ****ed by the Greyjoys at Lannisport, Stannis totally destroyed the overrated Victarion at sea. He held storms end for a year against thousands and thousands of men. Stannis can win at sea or on land. D and D were RENLY lovers and despised Stannis. I don't blame those idiot morons either if I was a RENLY fan too I'd be a blind hater too after that massive burn Stannis constantly spits. Renly says Margaery came to his bed a maid and Stannis says she's like to die that way too

I love the Stannis haters. Obviously Dany and Jon Snow lovers. Stannis is the funniest character in the books.

"Her own father got this child on her? We are well rid of her then. I will not suffer such abominations here, this is not Kings Landing. "

Those two lines above are literally the two best lines in the series. Good thing GRRM likes Stannis and has called him a just character akin to Henry VII (though I disagree with calling Henry VII just, he was a usurper). The last king of the originals left, he isn't going out meekly. He will not be the final winner of the iron throne but he won't have such a **** ending like Dumbass and Dumbass gave him.

Show Stannis - Burns Alester Florent for worshipping the 7.
Book Stannis - Burns Alester Florent for treason, especially trying to marry off Shireen to a ******* born of incest.

Show Stannis - Burns Shireen because she has Kings blood.
Book Stannis - Tells Justin Massey to put Shireen on throne if Stannis dies. Burns 4 Peasebury men for cannibalism.

Yeah Stannis deserves all the hate. No need for a ruler who is harsh but fair, just but morally strong. Gelds men for rape but also has the most disciplined soldiers. Killed RENLY because he had to, renly was going to kill Stannis. A little vengeful teen like Dany who is a HUGE ****/***** sleeping with anything she pleases, makes me sick. Usurper dogs blah blah. The show turned Loras into an abomination. Instead of an elite fighter who happened to be gay, they just made him a gay guy who happens to fight smh. Such trash writing. Show was good the first 4 seasons when they had books to go off.

also all of her wolf dreams where she is heavily implied to be controlling Nymeria as she kills Lannister soldiers... the books have all the Stark children except Sansa warging, it is even hinted that Robb could.

La Cosa Nostra strikes me as the kind of person who watches The Godfather 2 and strongly identifies with Michael while calling Kay "a *****". A lot of his critiques of GoT are based on them putting women into positions of power or respect.

Except the Lannister soldier part was in a Jaime chapter...a whopping 2 sentries. Game changer right there,

Arya wargs only her own bonded dire wolf. I give her props since he's across the narrow sea but it's not like she can do it to a person. Bran will be able to see in the past and future. He's the real main player.

 

[Blender]

Being a great general doesn't automatically make you a great political leader. No one in this thread has said that Stannis isn't a great military leader, because he obviously is.

 

[MadDevil]

"Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day."

 

[Kurtz]

"Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day."

It's a beautifully written passage, but didn't quite describe Stannis accurately - Stannis has always shown that he was willing to listen to logic and change his mind to accomplish a greater goal. Both Davos and Jon had changed his mind with logical arguments and Melissandre with... proof.

 

[Kurtz]

Stannis isn't good at what? Leading men or inspiring them? Because he's the best in Westeros at both. All of his men are the most loyal and believe in him. One realm, one god, one king. When 1,500 soldiers defeated 30,000 stinking savages in a decisive rout they were cheering Stannis!Stannis!Stannis!, not DA KING IN DA NORF THE WHITE WOLF!

Barristan is dead in the show too. Good thing in the books he's alive and well.

Stannis is literally the best general in the realm. Unlike Tywin who got his fleet utterly ****ed by the Greyjoys at Lannisport, Stannis totally destroyed the overrated Victarion at sea. He held storms end for a year against thousands and thousands of men. Stannis can win at sea or on land. D and D were RENLY lovers and despised Stannis. I don't blame those idiot morons either if I was a RENLY fan too I'd be a blind hater too after that massive burn Stannis constantly spits. Renly says Margaery came to his bed a maid and Stannis says she's like to die that way too

I love the Stannis haters. Obviously Dany and Jon Snow lovers. Stannis is the funniest character in the books.

"Her own father got this child on her? We are well rid of her then. I will not suffer such abominations here, this is not Kings Landing. "

Those two lines above are literally the two best lines in the series. Good thing GRRM likes Stannis and has called him a just character akin to Henry VII (though I disagree with calling Henry VII just, he was a usurper). The last king of the originals left, he isn't going out meekly. He will not be the final winner of the iron throne but he won't have such a **** ending like Dumbass and Dumbass gave him.

Show Stannis - Burns Alester Florent for worshipping the 7.
Book Stannis - Burns Alester Florent for treason, especially trying to marry off Shireen to a ******* born of incest.

Show Stannis - Burns Shireen because she has Kings blood.
Book Stannis - Tells Justin Massey to put Shireen on throne if Stannis dies. Burns 4 Peasebury men for cannibalism.

Yeah Stannis deserves all the hate. No need for a ruler who is harsh but fair, just but morally strong. Gelds men for rape but also has the most disciplined soldiers. Killed RENLY because he had to, renly was going to kill Stannis. A little vengeful teen like Dany who is a HUGE ****/***** sleeping with anything she pleases, makes me sick. Usurper dogs blah blah. The show turned Loras into an abomination. Instead of an elite fighter who happened to be gay, they just made him a gay guy who happens to fight smh. Such trash writing. Show was good the first 4 seasons when they had books to go off.





Except the Lannister soldier part was in a Jaime chapter...a whopping 2 sentries. Game changer right there,

Arya wargs only her own bonded dire wolf. I give her props since he's across the narrow sea but it's not like she can do it to a person. Bran will be able to see in the past and future. He's the real main player.

I enjoyed this post - but go re-read Arya's last (I think) chapter in Dance. It's easy to miss. While blind she is able to see through the eyes of a random house cat without even needing to enter that warg trance. She's got more powers in the book than you give her credit for.

 

[Emperoreddy]

All the Stark children are wargs in the books, right? Bran is the only greenseer