Books: A Song of Ice and Fire *SPOILERS* Part XV

[kdb209]

Continue your vain wait for The Winds of Winter here.

Note that this is a "Spoiler Thread" for book material.

It is not a thread for Spoilers from leaked/unaired Game of Thrones episodes.

I'll just copy this warning from the TV thread - it applies here also:

Just to be crystal clear. Anyone that brings up anything from a leaked episode will be banned from the Entertainment Board. This isn't open to debate.

Click to read more...

 

[Warden of the North]

I hope GRRM gets a book to us some day. Preferably two books.

 

[MadDevil]

I hope GRRM gets a book to us some day. Preferably two books.

And neither of them will be The Winds of Winter.

 

[Emperoreddy]

And neither of them will be The Winds of Winter.

That is the worst part. He doesn't want to finish this story. Feast and Dance was him getting bored with the plot.

 

[Siamese Dream]

The books are coming

He's just making sure all the food and clothing description is word perfect

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Did you hear about wild cards? And if you click this link here you can see all my next convention appearances I'm booked for up until the year 2045. And also, did I mention Wild Cards? I have my good days and my bad days.


There. That's all the ******** that comes out of his mouth anyway. Should have known that once he got rich and famous off the show he'd rather be the famous celebrity then finish what got him there in the first place. The show will not be finished. The fat crybaby actually said he would have an asteroid destroy Westeros because he couldn't handle all the people wanting him to finish the books. I'd actually prefer it just so we have some ****ing closure. Winds isn't coming out until 2020 at the earliest. The reason the stories not ending is that he knows he can't finish the story in just two books he wanted to build such a grand setting and lifelike world and made the story just way too bloated and big. Most of his storylines are just stupid. Like really, introduce fake Aegon Targaryen in book 5? And the whole Harold HArdying and Victorian/Euron ugh because he didn't feel follow his five year gap he knows he can't finish the books. He's just another Stephen king, great beginning and middle and either no or a terrible ending.

How the **** do you publish the three best books of the series in a 5 year period and then over the next nearly 18 years only publish two garbage books? Feast and dance sucked big time. Like laughably bad. He isn't close to Tolkien.

 

[Teemu]

How the **** do you publish the three best books of the series in a 5 year period and then over the next nearly 18 years only publish two garbage books? Feast and dance sucked big time. Like laughably bad. He isn't close to Tolkien.

It's easier to produce art as a starving artist. Now, I don't really know what Martin used to look like but.... well, his starving days seem to be over.

 

[Emperoreddy]

It isn't that. He just wants to either tell new stories or world build.

He doesn't want to tell the story of the War for Dawn, and it isn't helped by the fact he tied the plot into so many knots it will take a chainsaw to get it back on track

 

[Blender]

It isn't that. He just wants to either tell new stories or world build.

He doesn't want to tell the story of the War for Dawn, and it isn't helped by the fact he tied the plot into so many knots it will take a chainsaw to get it back on track

He just needs to do a Cersei blowing up the Sept type story where all his (mostly) pointless side characters all meet up for a conference and someone blows them up. Problem solved.

 

[Tecumseh]

It isn't that. He just wants to either tell new stories or world build.

He doesn't want to tell the story of the War for Dawn, and it isn't helped by the fact he tied the plot into so many knots it will take a chainsaw to get it back on track

I think I read on one of his blogs that he wanted to finish all the Dunk and Egg stories before they're adapted for television. Sounds like he doesn't want to repeat the situation again where he green lights an incomplete story for television

 

[Brodie]

I think he just ran out of steam and is no longer as interested in the stories he was telling, after ASOS I think he had exhausted everything he really had in mind. He knows the broad strokes and presumably many of those are being incorporated into the show, but I don't think he really has any heart for the details at this point.

 

[discostu]

I think he's set up the storylines in a way that there's no possible resolution without taking bad writing shortcuts that he can't bring himself to do, whereas they show seems perfectly willing to have people makes out of character decisions or teleport between locations if it sets up the necessary battles and plot points.

 

[Frank the Tank]

I think he's set up the storylines in a way that there's no possible resolution without taking bad writing shortcuts that he can't bring himself to do, whereas they show seems perfectly willing to have people makes out of character decisions or teleport between locations if it sets up the necessary battles and plot points.

It's the timelines that are difficult to resolve (e.g., Arya and Sam need to receive specialized training). GRRM wanted to jump 5 years after ASoS for a reason, which he then decided against, and that created re-writes and the current delays between books. Now he's stuck trying to occupy the other characters and fullfil prophecies while certain key storylines mature.

I am willing to wait. The show has gone too Hollywood for my taste since they ran out of source material. As you mentioned, consistency in character actions and plot elements have been thrown aside to fit a production schedule. They can have their Michael Bay style ending, which I'll watch, and then I'll wait to see how GRRM finishes the story, if ever. I'm 20 years in already on a ASOIAF, what's another 20?

 

[dtones520]

It's the timelines that are difficult to resolve (e.g., Arya and Sam need to receive specialized training). GRRM wanted to jump 5 years after ASoS for a reason, which he then decided against, and that created re-writes and the current delays between books. Now he's stuck trying to occupy the other characters and fullfil prophecies while certain key storylines mature.

I am willing to wait. The show has gone too Hollywood for my taste since they ran out of source material. As you mentioned, consistency in character actions and plot elements have been thrown aside to fit a production schedule. They can have their Michael Bay style ending, which I'll watch, and then I'll wait to see how GRRM finishes the story, if ever. I'm 20 years in already on a ASOIAF, what's another 20?

What's another 20? GRRM will likely be dead by then.

 

[Brodie]

I'd be a lot more forgiving of GRRM if the last two books weren't absolute hot garbage.

I kind of dislike the last couple of seasons of the show, but even then they are not objectively worse than what happened in the books. My issue with the show is saving important material for the endgame until relatively late in their desire to tell a straightforward medieval epic without prophecy or flashback scenes.

 

[Psyfer]

I'd be a lot more forgiving of GRRM if the last two books weren't absolute hot garbage.

I kind of dislike the last couple of seasons of the show, but even then they are not objectively worse than what happened in the books. My issue with the show is saving important material for the endgame until relatively late in their desire to tell a straightforward medieval epic without prophecy or flashback scenes.

Your joking right the last 2 seasons have been brutally bad basically what happens if you took someone's bad fanfic and gave them millions of dollars to create a show about it, the only saving grace has been a few good actors on the show have managed to get the most out of garbage writing.

Also they somehow found a way for me to hope my favorite character from the books dies a horrible death but ofcourse they won't because the show has so much plot armor now because it's basically just a generic fantasy story at this point.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

I'd be a lot more forgiving of GRRM if the last two books weren't absolute hot garbage.

Way too harsh. They were a mix of the brilliant (Cersei, Theon) with the terrible (Brienne, Dorne, Meereen).

They needed a ruthless editor to have the courage to stand up to George and say "no, cut all this crap out, focus on the good stuff"

It reminds me of when Guns n Roses did Use Your Illusion I and II. To make two double sided Albums they had to use a lot of average filler. If they'd cut all that crap down to one album, they would have made one of the greatest rock albums of all time.

 

[Siamese Dream]

I'm not going to say it in the show thread but I'll say it here: episode 6 was probably the worst episode they've ever done. I have criticised a lot this season but usually I enjoy the episode while watching it then I notice the flaws later when I think about it. But while watching this one I was literally laughing at how bad it was.

It was not even the travel that got me this time, the supersonic raven was the least of my concerns and I didn't really even notice. When they killed off a red shirt I was saying out loud "no, not an extra! No!" and everything that happened was just so predictable and convenient for them. Like they conveniently come across a band of like 7 wights and a WW who Jon made look like a complete chump, and then they all conveniently get disabled except for the 1. The only surprising thing was that they didn't have the balls to kill off more named characters than just Thoros. The other hilarious part for me was the NK spear throw and how he didn't go for Drogon straight away, then why the **** did Jon not get on Drogon and try to take on all the wights by himself? Oh I know why, it's so Benjen can come and conveniently save him and then die to tie up that loose end so D&D don't have to explain his purpose. Also Jon probably should've died of hypothermia but oh well, it was to be expected that he'll recover and them he gets his forced moment with Dany who is more upset about him than that she lost one of her Dragons. The NK pulling the dragon out of the water with the chain wasn't something I really noticed at first, but I do now wonder where they got it from.

The Arya and Sansa scenes were terrible. I never thought I would ever find myself taking Sansa's side, Arya is just being so irrational and impulsive. At least it seems Littlefinger is up to his old tricks again and not just jobbing about with no purpose, so that is kind of redeeming, but I expect because fans like mass murderer Arya D&D will have her outsmart creepy Littlefinger who fans don't like.

Only good thing about this episode was the banter between Tormund and The Hound.

 

[Blender]

Way too harsh. They were a mix of the brilliant (Cersei, Theon) with the terrible (Brienne, Dorne, Meereen).

They needed a ruthless editor to have the courage to stand up to George and say "no, cut all this crap out, focus on the good stuff"

It reminds me of when Guns n Roses did Use Your Illusion I and II. To make two double sided Albums they had to use a lot of average filler. If they'd cut all that crap down to one album, they would have made one of the greatest rock albums of all time.

No I agree with them, they were hot garbage. Yes there were good things in them, but analyzing the work as a whole they were not good at all.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The story absolutely needed the time jump he originally planned.

Honestly I am fine with the show biting the bullet and doing some illogical things just to free the plot of the absolute mess GRRM left it in.

Why I get annoyed when show people are like "it isn't as good because they ran out of material".

No it has problems because GRRM wrote a garbage book (Feast) and a meh book in Dance and left it at that because he can't even figure out how to fix it.

 

[Emperoreddy]

It's the timelines that are difficult to resolve (e.g., Arya and Sam need to receive specialized training). GRRM wanted to jump 5 years after ASoS for a reason, which he then decided against, and that created re-writes and the current delays between books. Now he's stuck trying to occupy the other characters and fullfil prophecies while certain key storylines mature.

I am willing to wait. The show has gone too Hollywood for my taste since they ran out of source material. As you mentioned, consistency in character actions and plot elements have been thrown aside to fit a production schedule. They can have their Michael Bay style ending, which I'll watch, and then I'll wait to see how GRRM finishes the story, if ever. I'm 20 years in already on a ASOIAF, what's another 20?

The show is nothing like the nonsense that is Michael Bay. There is hyperbole and than there is what you are selling here.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

The show is laughable now. Jon and Danys plot armor is so ridiculously thick I have no worries ever of them dying. And forcing this romance on is so dumb way too quick.

 

[Blender]

The show is laughable now. Jon and Danys plot armor is so ridiculously thick I have no worries ever of them dying. And forcing this romance on is so dumb way too quick.

Their romance has been neither forced nor quick. It's been building slowly over 5 episodes now and half a dozen interactions, plus side discussions with others. It still hasn't even come together yet as of episode 6. They've been given more build up than any other romance on the show.

 

[Siamese Dream]

The show is laughable now. Jon and Danys plot armor is so ridiculously thick I have no worries ever of them dying. And forcing this romance on is so dumb way too quick.

It's not helped by the ridiculous situations they get themselves in but Jon and Dany's plot armour is easy to stomach because you know they're important to the end game.

It's the plot armour of at this point fan servicey characters like Bronn and Arya that bother me the most, everyone likes Arya so they keep her around to be as badass as possible when it's pretty clear to me she's not really going to have an affect on the eventual ending like Jon and Dany obviously are. When the Waif stabbed her I thought holy crap this is it they've actually had the balls to kill her, and it would have been a devastating moment with a similar impact to the death of Ned and Robb+Cat. But no, she miraculously survives and then we got that ridiculous chase scene.

 

[Frank the Tank]

The show is nothing like the nonsense that is Michael Bay. There is hyperbole and than there is what you are selling here.

Episode 6 was all about big moments at the expense of plot consistency and character logic. I purposely threw out such hyperbole because one could see the show tracking this way since episode 1 and it jumped the shark (or resurrected the dragon) last evening. I'm disappointed.