Books: A Song of Ice and Fire *SPOILERS* Part XV

[Finlandia WOAT]

What he said had nothing to do with GRRM.

D&D, when left to their own devices, focus far too much on creating suspense that it more or less tips their hand anyway and ruins it. It's also fair to point out that they were never brought on to actually finish GRRM's story for him. HBO (and, ostensibly, George himself LMFAO) thought he would, if not done, have the first draft of the final book ready for D&D to use.

Yet here we are with Season 7 finishing up last year and GRRM hasn't even gotten the first draft of Book 6 to his publisher.

 

[Psyfer]

Most people don't have their heads so far up George's ass that they can see other writers can actually write good things (shocking) and GRRM can actually write **** (scandal!)

You guys are just as bad of your defense of the show we are just on opposite sides of the spectrum.

 

[Emperoreddy]

You guys are just as bad of your defense of the show we are just on opposite sides of the spectrum.

Not really no. I can admit the show makes mistakes. You can't admit George isn't the Jesus of Authors.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

What he said had nothing to do with GRRM.

D&D, when left to their own devices, focus far too much on creating suspense that it more or less tips their hand anyway and ruins it. It's also fair to point out that they were never brought on to actually finish GRRM's story for him. HBO (and, ostensibly, George himself LMFAO) thought he would, if not done, have the first draft of the final book ready for D&D to use.

Yet here we are with Season 7 finishing up last year and GRRM hasn't even gotten the first draft of Book 6 to his publisher.

Which is absolutely worth mentioning. If GRRM didn't write at the speed of a snail, we likely wouldn't be having this argument. D&D would have a much better blueprint on where to take their show, and wouldn't be left with mediocre fan fiction.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Not really no. I can admit the show makes mistakes. You can't admit George isn't the Jesus of Authors.

How petulant are you going to get here?

Everybody in this thread has criticized George at one point. Hell, half the time we talk about Brandon Sanderson finishing the series in his stead.

You're the one going well out of your way in multiple threads to defend the Kidnap a Zombie plot, which made zero sense from the moment it was announced.

 

[Psyfer]

Not really no. I can admit the show makes mistakes. You can't admit George isn't the Jesus of Authors.

What are you talking about I just admitted the last 2 books were not that great but the show has been even worse the last 2 seasons

 

[Brodie]

D&D were brought in to write an adaptation, which they did. Many of their missteps were foisted upon them by the source material being a poor fit for adaptation (Sansa would have nothing to do if her storyline were faithfully adapted plus you simply cannot make audiences care about Jeyne Poole/fArya since she was never a character and it's harder to accept a fake version of a main character in a visual medium), attempts at time biding (GRRM allegedly asked them to stall during season 5), and a need to force a conclusion when that didn't work.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Not really no. I can admit the show makes mistakes. You can't admit George isn't the Jesus of Authors.

Don't the vast majority of book readers agree that book 4 and 5 weren't very good?

The show has become hollywoodized. That's what many are critical of. The plot and characters aren't consistent any longer, they're just used to push us to the next huge battle and shock moment.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Their romance has been neither forced nor quick. It's been building slowly over 5 episodes now and half a dozen interactions, plus side discussions with others. It still hasn't even come together yet as of episode 6. They've been given more build up than any other romance on the show.

You must have forgotten Ygritte then. They spent a few episodes of season 2 and the beginning of 3 building it up. Jon didn't meet Dany until what, episode 2? The show is trash. There's no scenes that include small characters anymore besides the cringe Ed Sheeran scene. Virtually every scene is just the main characters doing end game ****. The whole season has been fan service, fanfic type stories and just horrendous. And sorry, the time travel has just ended all notion of this being a smart show. Remember when Arya and the hound spent a whole season trying to travel? That was just going a few hundred miles at most. Now we have ravens and dragons traveling thousands of miles in a day.

The show has sucked since season 5.

 

[The Head Crusher]

Don't the vast majority of book readers agree that book 4 and 5 weren't very good?

The show has become hollywoodized. That's what many are critical of. The plot and characters aren't consistent any longer, they're just used to push us to the next huge battle and shock moment.

Weren't the last two books originally 1 but the publisher wanted it split up so GRRM had to add additional content (characters) to fill out the second. This was why there was the chronological confusion over Davos' apparent death and the repeating of the Sam/Jon farewell from both perspectives.

 

[Psyfer]

Don't the vast majority of book readers agree that book 4 and 5 weren't very good?

The show has become hollywoodized. That's what many are critical of. The plot and characters aren't consistent any longer, they're just used to push us to the next huge battle and shock moment.

Agreed and your not allowed to criticize it without getting the same 2-3 posters saying plot holes don't matter and it should just be accepted without being argued the biggest example being the Arya Wolverine/ Terminator stuff at the end of season 6.

I have noticed more people are starting to admit the show is not as great anymore even show only people so cant claim they are worshiping GRRM.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Haha Psyfer nice avatar I was thinking of changing mine to that myself but I think I shall remain Darkstar (see what I did there?)

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

They said they only had enough story for 7 episodes, but they easily could have gone a full season and avoided rushing so much. Filling episodes with more of the Fellowship dialogue, leave them trapped on the Lake as a cliffhanger and resolve it in the next episode as one example. They've ignored so much that could have fleshed out a full season. Disappointing for sure. Especially since it is self-inflicted.

 

[Miamipuck]

They said they only had enough story for 7 episodes, but they easily could have gone a full season and avoided rushing so much. Filling episodes with more of the Fellowship dialogue, leave them trapped on the Lake as a cliffhanger and resolve it in the next episode as one example. They've ignored so much that could have fleshed out a full season. Disappointing for sure. Especially since it is self-inflicted.

Agreed, they very easily could have had more episodes. I think they're tired of the show. I can't blame them it's a huge commitment.

 

[RandV]

I just can't understand some people here. When a book/show starts runs as a 10 for a while but can't keep it up and drops to a 7/8, then you start talking about it like it's a 3.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I just can't understand some people here. When a book/show starts runs as a 10 for a while but can't keep it up and drops to a 7/8, then you start talking about it like it's a 3.

Agreed. I don't think the show is awful, but it's certainly not where it was just a couple seasons ago.

 

[Kurtz]

Agreed. I don't think the show is awful, but it's certainly not where it was just a couple seasons ago.

It's very close to that level, it's just a little rushed, and they're substituting some of the dialogue for spectacle.

That may be a bad thing for us readers, but I wager your average viewer is far more interested in hot dragon action than in dialogue (which is still quite good, even without Martin).

 

[Psyfer]

I just can't understand some people here. When a book/show starts runs as a 10 for a while but can't keep it up and drops to a 7/8, then you start talking about it like it's a 3.

I would put it more in the 4-6 range personally which is disappointing I do want to enjoy the show more.

I would rate the seasons as

season 1 9/10
season 2 8/10
season 3 9/10
season 4 8/10
season 5 5/10
season 6 6/10
season 7 4/10

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

The dialogue seems to have hit a formula as they ran out of a book material. I don't remember if earlier seasons were filmed this way, I don't think they were but neither will I debate that point if someone says they were.

Anyway, two people are discussing or arguing about something, whether it's actually important or not is itself unimportant.

Then one person drops a one-liner and walks off, "winning" the conversation if it were an argument. If it were a discussion, the camera cuts to the person remaining and s/he looks like they're thinking about the discussion

If/when I have free time I'll re-watch, and re-re-re-watch the series and try to see differences in dialogue and dramatic mechanisms.

 

[Lessavyfav]

They said they only had enough story for 7 episodes, but they easily could have gone a full season and avoided rushing so much. Filling episodes with more of the Fellowship dialogue, leave them trapped on the Lake as a cliffhanger and resolve it in the next episode as one example. They've ignored so much that could have fleshed out a full season. Disappointing for sure. Especially since it is self-inflicted.

I think budget had more to do with it than story. All the actors received a massive per episode pay jump. One way to keep price down is to shoot less episodes and use that budget elsewhere. I can only speculate so I can be wrong on that, but this season has been action and effect heavy. Lots of money is spent on cgi, staff, choreography, etc.

There is definitely places where they could add more. Small examples are explaining that the suicide squad had dragonglass daggers, how the WW got the chain, Benjen spectating the horde, or further reason why the Wight is necessary. I can forgive that stuff, but it could have been added.

 

[Miamipuck]

I think budget had more to do with it than story. All the actors received a massive per episode pay jump. One way to keep price down is to shoot less episodes and use that budget elsewhere. I can only speculate so I can be wrong on that, but this season has been action and effect heavy. Lots of money is spent on cgi, staff, choreography, etc.

There is definitely places where they could add more. Small examples are explaining that the suicide squad had dragonglass daggers, how the WW got the chain, Benjen spectating the horde, or further reason why the Wight is necessary. I can forgive that stuff, but it could have been added.

Last episode they (Jon's men and Jorah) were clearly seen carrying a bunch of boxes from the cave. It didn't have dragonglass spray painted on the side but I am pretty sure that's what they were carrying in the boxes. Also, they made the sound like stuff was inside.

 

[Lessavyfav]

Last episode they (Jon's men and Jorah) were clearly seen carrying a bunch of boxes from the cave. It didn't have dragonglass spray painted on the side but I am pretty sure that's what they were carrying in the boxes. Also, they made the sound like stuff was inside.

Yeah, I understood what was going on, but the average viewer may not have. Especially with some of the confusion on how the polar bear died. It could have been a 2 minute scene to add detail to the story. I liked how the hound resigned to using the daggers when the war hammer was ineffective.

I liked the episode. I just meant by that post that there was room to pad a little more.

 

[Miamipuck]

Yeah, I understood what was going on, but the average viewer may not have. Especially with some of the confusion on how the polar bear died. It could have been a 2 minute scene to add detail to the story. I liked how the hound resigned to using the daggers when the war hammer was ineffective.

I liked the episode. I just meant by that post that there was room to pad a little more.

I completely agree with that but would extrapolate to the entire season.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Yeah, I understood what was going on, but the average viewer may not have. Especially with some of the confusion on how the polar bear died. It could have been a 2 minute scene to add detail to the story. I liked how the hound resigned to using the daggers when the war hammer was ineffective.

I liked the episode. I just meant by that post that there was room to pad a little more.

It would have been nice if they had mentioned the daggers. I did not know what was going on.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

It would have been nice if they had mentioned the daggers. I did not know what was going on.

That's part of the problem.

So many contrivances could be made more palatable by better attention to detail.

A former strength of the show was its attention to detail. That attention is sorely lacking this season.