Books: A Song of Ice and Fire *SPOILERS* Part XV

[RobBrown4PM]

Anyone read The World of ice and Fire? I was looking into maybe picking it up.

It's a must for any hardcore ASoIF fan. It fleshes out a lot of the timelines of the houses and goes into heavy heavy detail of all the Targ kings.

And of course the artwork is insane.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Could be. Lord Manderly already did the Frey pies though.

Almost forgot about that.

I have a love:hate relationship with Brienne's stuff, so I'm not really all in with LSH as some others. I am also just not exactly sure where it is going big picture wise

 

[SettlementRichie10]

World of Ice and Fire is amazing. Really illuminating and interesting world building. The chapter about the Rhoynish wars with Valyria is awesome.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Isn't GRRM working on a seperste Targ Kings book?

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Isn't GRRM working on a seperste Targ Kings book?

Haven't heard much about that, but it wouldn't surprise me. Like most fantasy authors, I'm sure he enjoys the raw world building more than he does the interminable grind of plotting scene-sequel-scene-sequel-MAJOR EDIT-scene-sequel...

Books like WoIaF don't really adhere to any narrative fiction rules, so they're easy to write, and easy to edit. The only thing they don't do easy is sell, but with Asoiaf's massive fan base, that isn't a problem anymore.

He goes pretty in depth on every Targ king in WoIaF already.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Haven't heard much about that, but it wouldn't surprise me. Like most fantasy authors, I'm sure he enjoys the raw world building more than he does the interminable grind of plotting scene-sequel-scene-sequel-MAJOR EDIT-scene-sequel...

Books like WoIaF don't really adhere to any narrative fiction rules, so they're easy to write, and easy to edit. The only thing they don't do easy is sell, but with Asoiaf's massive fan base, that isn't a problem anymore.

He goes pretty in depth on every Targ king in WoIaF already.

Looked it up. It is a novella included in the anthology called "The Book of Swords".

It is called the Son of the Dragon and is something he wrote for World of Ice and Fire but didn't include

 

[Olvast]

Yes, he is working on his precious Targ Kings GRRMarillion project "Fire and Blood". It's different from WoIaF, as the latter was mostly written by Elio Garcia and Linda Antonsson with the consultation of Martin. Fire and Blood will be completely Martin's work.

I'd rather he finished the main story first, but I'll settle for anything at this point. He mentioned in a recent blog post that if everything goes well there might be two book releases in 2018, referring to this Fire and Blood and WoW. But we'll see, I wouldn't bet on it just yet.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Yes, he is working on his precious Targ Kings GRRMarillion project "Fire and Blood". It's different from WoIaF, as the latter was mostly written by Elio Garcia and Linda Antonsson with the consultation of Martin. Fire and Blood will be completely Martin's work.

I'd rather he finished the main story first, but I'll settle for anything at this point. He mentioned in a recent blog post that if everything goes well there might be two book releases in 2018, referring to this Fire and Blood and WoW. But we'll see, I wouldn't bet on it just yet.

Remember when GRRM was shooting to release Winds of Winter before season six? LOL.

 

[Siamese Dream]

This bit gets me every time

The sight had filled him with disquiet, reminding him of Aerys Targaryen and the way a burning would arouse him. A king has no secrets from his Kingsguard. Relations between Aerys and his queen had been strained during the last years of his reign. They slept apart and did their best to avoid each other during the waking hours. But whenever Aerys gave a man to the flames, Queen Rhaella would have a visitor in the night. The day he burned his mace-and-dagger Hand, Jaime and Jon Darry had stood at guard outside her bedchamber whilst the king took his pleasure. "You're hurting me," they had heard Rhaella cry through the oaken door. "You're hurting me." In some queer way, that had been worse than Lord Chelsted's screaming. "We are sworn to protect her as well," Jaime had finally been driven to say. "We are," Darry allowed, "but not from him."

 

[Siamese Dream]

The faegon storyline started in the very first book.

I just came across this Varys quote while reading a Tyrion chapter in ACOK

"The only puzzle is what you might have offered for his allegiance. The prince is a sentimental man, and he still mourns his sister Elia and her sweet babe."

Varys says babe singular, not plural. Possibly meaning only Rhaenys. You could argue Rhaenys is a little too old to be considered a babe, she's what 2 or 3? But if that's the case why doesn't Varys say "Elia and her children"? It's only Elia and her babe, one child, not two. We know that Rhaenys was in a different room and killed by Amory Lorch while Elia and baby Aegon were killed together by The Mountain, so it makes sense to pair them together, but why would Doran only mourn "Elia and her babe" and not the older child as well? This seems like a deliberate slip by Varys.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

I just came across this Varys quote while reading a Tyrion chapter in ACOK



Varys says babe singular, not plural. Possibly meaning only Rhaenys. You could argue Rhaenys is a little too old to be considered a babe, she's what 2 or 3? But if that's the case why doesn't Varys say "Elia and her children"? It's only Elia and her babe, one child, not two. We know that Rhaenys was in a different room and killed by Amory Lorch while Elia and baby Aegon were killed together by The Mountain, so it makes sense to pair them together, but why would Doran only mourn "Elia and her babe" and not the older child as well? This seems like a deliberate slip by Varys.

Not a slip, remember they don't know Arya is there and from what info we have, we can deduce that Illyrio is apart of this plan, and likely the only other person outside of Varys that has any info on it.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Not a slip, remember they don't know Arya is there and from what info we have, we can deduce that Illyrio is apart of this plan, and likely the only other person outside of Varys that has any info on it.

No this is from the 2nd book, it's something Varys says to Tyrion when they're discussing the Myrcella betrothal, and Tyrion doesn't notice.

 

[Siamese Dream]

New crackpot theory, don't know if this has ever been discussed online at all, I came up with this myself during a re-read.

In the books Joffrey was killed by some sort of shadow baby/magic

If you had seen how Joff died . . . he fought, Jaime, he fought for every breath, but it was as if some malign spirit had its hands about his throat

What if unbeknownst to her, Cersei has accidentally stumbled across the real answer, and Gurm left the reader this clue.

I think it is entirely plausible. We're made to think Littlefinger conspired with the Tyrells to murder Joffrey. Preston Jacobs thinks that plan was way too impractical and Littlefinger meant to poison Tyrion so he could whisk Sansa away, but the flaw in that argument is Dontos knew they would leave the night of Joffrey's wedding long before she was betrothed to Tyrion.

I don't see why both possibilities can't be wrong, maybe Littlefinger lied to Sansa to make her more fearful of what he's capable of, maybe he did the magic himself, who knows. All I know is I had a revelation when I read that quote.

 

[Deport Ogie]

I love a good crackpot theory but in this case, I think it is what it is.

We have one other example of The Strangler in action from POV with Maester Cressen in ACOK:

Cressen tried to reply, but his words caught in his throat. His cough became a terrible thin whistle as he strained to suck in air. Iron fingers tightened round his neck.

Where the discussion from this one goes however, is why was Mel unaffected? It leads us to believe that her magic cleanses her of poison but do we see any other examples of that sort of thing? Is it more likely that she glamours herself to appear as though she's drunk the poisoned wine when she hasn't?

 

[Siamese Dream]

I love a good crackpot theory but in this case, I think it is what it is.

We have one other example of The Strangler in action from POV with Maester Cressen in ACOK:



Where the discussion from this one goes however, is why was Mel unaffected? It leads us to believe that her magic cleanses her of poison but do we see any other examples of that sort of thing? Is it more likely that she glamours herself to appear as though she's drunk the poisoned wine when she hasn't?

Mel drank the poisoned wine and it didn't affect her for whatever reason, but I think she then killed Cressen with Darth Vader force choke type magic, which is what I think may have also happened to Joffrey.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Heard a rumor that the Targaryen civil war is at the head of the five leaked GoT spinoff proposals for HBO.

It has the potential to be a FANTASTIC show. The bones of the story are very "GoT"-esque. Betrayals left and right, political subterfuge, forbidden relationships, the works. And it all culminates in a brutal and bloody war with many morally "gray" characters on each side.

The only question is the budget. The Dance features over a dozen dragons of significance, and some pretty large scale battles/dragon fights.

If they can get the budget, though, it would be incredible.

 

[discostu]

Heard a rumor that the Targaryen civil war is at the head of the five leaked GoT spinoff proposals for HBO.

It has the potential to be a FANTASTIC show. The bones of the story are very "GoT"-esque. Betrayals left and right, political subterfuge, forbidden relationships, the works. And it all culminates in a brutal and bloody war with many morally "gray" characters on each side.

The only question is the budget. The Dance features over a dozen dragons of significance, and some pretty large scale battles/dragon fights.

If they can get the budget, though, it would be incredible.

The stakes are high enough for HBO, that I think they wouldn't hesitate for the biggest budget option if they were convinced it gave them the best shot at retaining their audience.

Every other network/streaming service is trying to find the next Game of Thrones. If they're go cheap, and it fails, they'll be regretting it for a long time.

 

[JabbaJabba]

I don't know why they would do the Dance when they already did it in the animation extras. Sure, not everyone watches those but I can't see them doing it after they already gave out the plot basically.

 

[Olvast]

Heard a rumor that the Targaryen civil war is at the head of the five leaked GoT spinoff proposals for HBO.

Which of the civil wars are we talking about? I guess Dance would be more grandiose, but honestly I'd be more interested in the Blackfyre rebellion(s). Not sure if they can be classified as civil wars though?

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Which of the civil wars are we talking about? I guess Dance would be more grandiose, but honestly I'd be more interested in the Blackfyre rebellion(s). Not sure if they can be classified as civil wars though?

Wait what? I thought Dance was Blackfyre? Can someone remind of the difference?

 

[JabbaJabba]

Wait what? I thought Dance was Blackfyre? Can someone remind of the difference?

Dance was between different Targaryen factions called the Blacks and the Greens (both sides had real dragons) while Blackfyres were Targaryen ******** (Bittersteel etc.) who attacked from Essos a number of times (dragons were all gone by that time I think). I guess you could call Blackfyre rebellions civil wars, I just think that the Dance is always refered as the Targaryen civil war as both sides had a legitimate Targaryen leader and contender for the throne and dragon fought dragon, while Blackfyres were not legitimate.

 

[MadDevil]

Wait what? I thought Dance was Blackfyre? Can someone remind of the difference?

The Dance took place like 50-60 years before the first Blackfyre Rebellion and was between Aegon II and his half-sister Rhaenyra after their father Viserys I died. The Blackfyre Rebellion was after Aegon IV legitimized all his ******** on his deathbed.

 

[Siamese Dream]

I just want to see all of our favourite historical characters brought to screen

Dunk & Egg
The other Targaryen princes like Aerion Brightflame, Baelor Breakspear, Valarr
Shiera Seastar
Bittersteel
Lyonel the laughing storm
Rohanne Webber

 

[njdevsfn95]

I'd love a series that looks into lore via TWoIAF. For example, why the hell did the Five Forts need to be built?

 

[Warden of the North]

Clearly the spin off we all want and need is about Darkstar.