2nd best player in the league!

[SotasicA]

The players are of course a lot more skilled now as well, it just doesn't show when looking at points. Drop any random NHLer from the 80s into a NCAA game today and they would probably have no chance.

That's just wrong. 80's skaters were just as good as skaters are today.

 

[Buck Naked]

That's just wrong. 80's skaters were just as good as skaters are today.

The top players, sure. Not the average ones though.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

This comes off as really uneducated. When Draisaitl plays center he is very sound defensively. Especially this year

Is he not among the bottom players for expected goals against? Could timely goaltending ( or high save %w him on ice) not factor into the raw totals allowed?

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Is he not among the bottom players for expected goals against? Could timely goaltending ( or high save %w him on ice) not factor into the raw totals allowed?

He does have a high save percentage when on the ice but I don’t think that’s entirely luck. He can get lazy when he is on the wing but he’s a strong 2-way center when he is lined up down the middle. Being one of the best face off guys in the league definitely helps with that.

 

[GreeningOil]

because he's a center! and fast! and Canadian! obviously that makes him far superior

Nope, being better at hockey makes him superior

 

[Atoyot]

I'm not saying he's 2nd, but I take Mark Stone over some on this list.

 

[Bluesguru]

The top players, sure. Not the average ones though.

There were some slugs for sure back then but if you take out the red line and obstruction like today, the game back then would look different too. If you still had the old rules today, the game wouldn’t look nearly as good or flashy as it does now.

 

[CatchyTune]

I'm not saying he's 2nd, but I take Mark Stone over some on this list.

other than Ovechkin obviously, who?

 

[Cats2TheCup]

Barkov is better than some of the guys on this poll. The underrated saga continues.

 

[CatchyTune]

Barkov is better than some of the guys on this poll. The underrated saga continues.

other than Ovechkin and maybe Pastrnak, no not really.

Barkovs been "underrated" forever now. not sure that applies anymore. we all know what he is.

 

[Lua]

Top producers over the last 2.5 years: NHL Stats

Not using this as an argument for one player or another, but I did some clicking around and was surprised to find out that over the past two seasons there are zero players with more even strength points than Panarin, and he's played less games than McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews, and Kane. He also is on the ice for far fewer goals against than these players. Just some food for thought.

 

[Cats2TheCup]

other than Ovechkin and maybe Pastrnak, no not really.

Barkovs been "underrated" forever now. not sure that applies anymore. we all know what he is.

Barkov > Matthews

 

[pb1300]

Barkov > Matthews

But Matthews is a better goal scorer.

 

[Nosferatu]

Why is Matthews on the voting list but not Barkov? He clearly wins every poll against Auston.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Why is Matthews on the voting list but not Barkov? He clearly wins every poll against Auston.

Yeah, but he shouldn't.

 

[CatchyTune]

Barkov > Matthews

no not at all really

 

[Elvs]

Frankly, this is probably blasphemy on these boards but I don't see why MacKinnon is considered to be in a different tier than Nikita Kucherov.

They both joined the NHL in 2013-2014, with Kucherov starting on the 4th line and MacKinnon already in a prominent role. The way I see it, MacKinnon took his step forward in the 2017-2018, when he broke out for 97 points, so that's where I'll draw the line for comparison. Kucherov also took a step up that season, and both turned into the players they are today.

Pre 2017-2018:
MacKinnon - 0.687 P/GP
Kucherov - 0.821 P/GP

2017-2018 to today:
MacKinnon - 1.295 P/GP
Kucherov - 1.361 P/GP

Since their rookie seasons (unfair comparison with Kucherov scratched/on the 4th line), MacKinnon has outpaced Kucherov a total of 2 of 6 seasons, one of which was by 0.06 PPG.

Even MacKinnon's (career high) pace this season is slightly lower than the average of Kucherov's post-2017 pace.

Sure, there are other arguments to make for MacKinnon and he plays a more valuable position, but I'm just unsure why it's such a foregone conclusion that he's in a higher tier than Kucherov when Kucherov has the clear edge in production.

Anyways, I voted Hedman.

Since MacKinnon's break out season in 2017/2018, he's scoring 107 points per 82 games. Nikita Kucherov is scoring 112 points per 82 games.

The difference is a mere seven points, and on top of that Kucherov has yet to play this season. No one knows how good he is at the moment or how his injury may or may not have affected him.

Not gonna get into a debate of who is better, but in all these kind of threads of McDavid vs Draisaitl vs MacKinnon vs Kucherov etc I always see this argument "This guy scores X amount of points so he's better than the other guy who scores Y amount of points".

Anyone would agree that not every 55 point player is better than every 40 point player. But for some reason, when the discussion is about a 100 point player versus an 85 point player, or a 120 point player versus a 105 point player – the guy who scores more must be better. I don't understand the logic

 

[Cats2TheCup]

no not at all really

Matthews is better at goal scoring. Barkov is literally better at everything else.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Matthews is better at goal scoring. Barkov is literally better at everything else.

Matthews is a MASSIVELY better goal scorer(and point getter) than Barkov, and Barkov is just a slightly better defensive player.

And Matthews also consistently gives out more hits, makes more blocks, has more takeaways, and less giveaways than Barkov. Any official ranking of players has Matthews in the top-5 now, while Barkov is not close to that.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

Since MacKinnon's break out season in 2017/2018, he's scoring 107 points per 82 games. Nikita Kucherov is scoring 112 points per 82 games.

The difference is a mere seven points, and on top of that Kucherov has yet to play this season. No one knows how good he is at the moment or how his injury may or may not have affected him.

Not gonna get into a debate of who is better, but in all these kind of threads of McDavid vs Draisaitl vs MacKinnon vs Kucherov etc I always see this argument "This guy scores X amount of points so he's better than the other guy who scores Y amount of points".

Anyone would agree that not every 55 point player is better than every 40 point player. But for some reason, when the discussion is about a 100 point player versus an 85 point player, or a 120 point player versus a 105 point player – the guy who scores more must be better. I don't understand the logic

My point was that a 7 point deficit doesn’t prove that MacKinnon is in another tier than Kucherov. I didn’t even say Kucherov was better, just that I’m not sure why it’s a foregone conclusion that MacKinnon is.

The reason top tier scorers are compared based on production is because that’s what they’re paid to do. A 55 point or 40 point forward can have wildly different roles on a team, and a 40 point penalty killing shutdown forward may provide more value than a 55 point player who only scores and doesn’t provide any benefit on the other end of the ice.

If you’re scoring 100+ points a season, your job is to score. And whoever is better at that is typically better at their role unless there is a massive gap in another aspect of their game.

 

[Elvs]

My point was that a 7 point deficit doesn’t prove that MacKinnon is in another tier than Kucherov. I didn’t even say Kucherov was better, just that I’m not sure why it’s a foregone conclusion that MacKinnon is.

The reason top tier scorers are compared based on production is because that’s what they’re paid to do. A 55 point or 40 point forward can have wildly different roles on a team, and a 40 point penalty killing shutdown forward may provide more value than a 55 point player who only scores and doesn’t provide any benefit on the other end of the ice.

If you’re scoring 100+ points a season, your job is to score. And whoever is better at that is typically better at their role unless there is a massive gap in another aspect of their game.

Again, I'm not here to debate MacKinnon versus Kucherov. I just disagree with the 'obsession' of production in threads like these. So many things come into play, even if comparing two offensive players who's "job is to score".

Steven and Martin could be exact clones, yet Martin could score 90 points for team X while Steven "only" scores 75 points for team Y. The difference could simply be team X having a power play that clicks that year. The following season their productions could be reversed, without either of them improving or declining in any aspect of their games.

Speaking of Kucherov, he wasn't a worse player in 19/20 compared to 18/19. He was simply having a worse season. And this is why I don't care about one player scoring seven points more than the other, even if they are both used in similar situations and with the same quality of linemates.

 

[Czechboy]

Looked at options.. read all the comments.. still can't decide. They're all so damn good.

I feel like Panarin is underrated.
Kane is not getting enough love.
Sid???
My initial answer was Mack but then I thought maybe Drai.

I never even considered Matthews to be honest. Not because I think he sucks or anything, I just don't think he's the 2nd best.

I'd kill for a Hedman on the Oil.

 

[authentic]

Matthews is a MASSIVELY better goal scorer(and point getter) than Barkov, and Barkov is just a slightly better defensive player.

And Matthews also consistently gives out more hits, makes more blocks, has more takeaways, and less giveaways than Barkov. Any official ranking of players has Matthews in the top-5 now, while Barkov is not close to that.

Matthews also only has 3 less assists despite the injury and missed games and being twice as good at goal scoring lol

 

[Mats13]

Barkov > Matthews

lol

 

[Mats13]

Matthews is better at goal scoring. Barkov is literally better at everything else.

He’s not even top 10 in points

He’s 15th in the league in even strength points. Matthews is 2nd. Matthews is clearly more dominant offensively.

Matthews has 42 takeaways. Defensive juggernaut barkov has 34. Sure takeaways aren’t everything, but you’d expect this guy to lead the league in every defensive category the way some people talk about him.