2nd best player in the league!

[LOFIN]

MacKinnon, not close. In the third tier we start talking about Draisaitl, Panarin, Matthew, Kucherov, Hedman...

 

[MrGeno101]

Kucherov may have been injured all season, but at the same time it became clear how valuable he is to the team. Offensively, he is the mastermind behind Lightning's success in recent years. He may not be the most flashy but i could undoubtedly say he has the greatest brain in hockey today.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Vasilevskiy and it's not ever close.

 

[SENSational]

Really close between Drai, Mac, and Hedman.

If I had to choose, I'd go with Hedman

 

[authentic]

I'm more surprised Matthews getting voted after one very good season compared to guys like Mack and Drai who have been topping 95+ in the last two or three seasons. I get that Matthews is getting there but to me it's too soon to call him the 2nd best player in league. I remember Mack's first Hart worthy season people said he needed to that again which he did. After that the excuses kept piling up like Rantanen making him better since he was bad before him or Mack playing on a good team. Now the last bug they found on him is that he doesn't show up in game 7s despite having 54pts in 40 playoff games.

MacKinnon is a very good choice for 2nd best, however Matthews has 30 goals in 30 healthy games this season (12 game stretch where his wrist was so bad he could hardly shoot he had 3 goals)

 

[authentic]

Frankly, this is probably blasphemy on these boards but I don't see why MacKinnon is considered to be in a different tier than Nikita Kucherov.

They both joined the NHL in 2013-2014, with Kucherov starting on the 4th line and MacKinnon already in a prominent role. The way I see it, MacKinnon took his step forward in the 2017-2018, when he broke out for 97 points, so that's where I'll draw the line for comparison. Kucherov also took a step up that season, and both turned into the players they are today.

Pre 2017-2018:
MacKinnon - 0.687 P/GP
Kucherov - 0.821 P/GP

2017-2018 to today:
MacKinnon - 1.295 P/GP
Kucherov - 1.361 P/GP

Since their rookie seasons (unfair comparison with Kucherov scratched/on the 4th line), MacKinnon has outpaced Kucherov a total of 2 of 6 seasons, one of which was by 0.06 PPG.

Even MacKinnon's (career high) pace this season is slightly lower than the average of Kucherov's post-2017 pace.

Sure, there are other arguments to make for MacKinnon and he plays a more valuable position, but I'm just unsure why it's such a foregone conclusion that he's in a higher tier than Kucherov when Kucherov has the clear edge in production.



Anyways, I voted Hedman.

Very true. Kucherov is very arguably still 2nd.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

First guy that came to mind is MacKinnon.

 

[BCNate]

Every time I watch the Leafs, I try to understand the hype around Matthews, but always come away disappointed. He is the best pure goal scorer, no doubt, and there is huge value in that. He is pretty invisible when he doesn't score though.

I voted Hedman. There is a reasonable debate about forwards, but there is really no sound argument that Hedman isn't heads above every other D in the league.

 

[authentic]

Every time I watch the Leafs, I try to understand the hype around Matthews, but always come away disappointed. He is the best pure goal scorer, no doubt, and there is huge value in that. He is pretty invisible when he doesn't score though.

I voted Hedman. There is a reasonable debate about forwards, but there is really no sound argument that Hedman isn't heads above every other D in the league.

Sounds like you probably haven't seen him much at 100%. Pretty much half this season he's been far from healthy or just sort of returning to normal. He had a lingering wrist injury for a long time, which he aggravated again not long ago. In many of those games I could see someone coming away with this opinion, but yet look at his goal totals and 2nd best ES points per game in the NHL barely behind McDavid.

 

[pcruz]

Every time I watch the Leafs, I try to understand the hype around Matthews, but always come away disappointed. He is the best pure goal scorer, no doubt, and there is huge value in that. He is pretty invisible when he doesn't score though.

I voted Hedman. There is a reasonable debate about forwards, but there is really no sound argument that Hedman isn't heads above every other D in the league.

You're being completely dishonest and it shows.
There are very few games where he doesn't have a few absolutely dominant shifts in the offensive zone.
There are very few games where he doesn't score.
There are very few games where he doesn't have a few solid defensive plays.

However, he shouldn't have a single vote here.

This list should include 3 players only:

Hedman
Mackinnon (my vote)
Draisaitl

And of those 3, Mack, Hedman are much more valuable to their teams than Drai.

 

[bobholly39]

MacKinnon, not close. In the third tier we start talking about Draisaitl, Panarin, Matthew, Kucherov, Hedman...

Yeah it's definitely close.

MacKinnon is great - but he doesn't have the peak season Kuch or Drai too. He also doesn't have the "led the playoff in points in cup win" argument Kuch has, even though he's been great in the smaller amount of games he played.

You can make a case for Mack, but you can also make an easy case for any of:

Kuch, see peak season + playoffs last year
Drai, see peak season + continued production this year

If you want to be a bit generous, you might expand it to also make a case for:

Hedman - D vs Forward hard to compare, but he's rock solid
Panarin - Hey I was the first to say last year "small sample, he won't repeat" - but he's producing at a crazy clip again this year. Gotta start to give him his due
Crosby - Purely a reputation vote, but some still would have him there, and tbh it's probably not that controversial. Many take him #1 in playoffs still, right or wrong

I like Matthews a lot. To me he has no case at #2. All the others you can make an argument why they've surpassed the others (Crosby on reputation, Hedman for a D, Kuch or Drai for peak season, Panarin for back to back production + 2nd this year in ppg, Mack for overall output past 3 years). Matthews is great, but outside of being the best goal-scorer I don't see a path to have him above all of those guys. Doesn't mean he necessarily has to be behind all of them - it just means he has no argument for #2 yet.

 

[bobholly39]

You're being completely dishonest and it shows.
There are very few games where he doesn't have a few absolutely dominant shifts in the offensive zone.
There are very few games where he doesn't score.
There are very few games where he doesn't have a few solid defensive plays.

However, he shouldn't have a single vote here.

This list should include 3 players only:

Hedman
Mackinnon (my vote)
Draisaitl

And of those 3, Mack, Hedman are much more valuable to their teams than Drai.

You can't not at least have Kucherov in that same tier. He swept all awards a year prior, led league in playoff points last year.

 

[pcruz]

You can't not at least have Kucherov in that same tier. He swept all awards a year prior, led league in playoff points last year.

That is true, but Point is arguably a better overall player than Kucherov.

There is no better defenseman than Hedman.
What Mackinnon did and does in the playoffs is amazing. He almost singlehandedly carried the team past Calgary.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

You could say MacKinnon, but I don't think he's been better than Barkov this season.

 

[missionAvs]

It's MacK-Daddy but Drai is right there with him. Matthews, with his current season, is also playing himself into that tier.

 

[bobholly39]

That is true, but Point is arguably a better overall player than Kucherov.

There is no better defenseman than Hedman.
What Mackinnon did and does in the playoffs is amazing. He almost singlehandedly carried the team past Calgary.

Brayden Point is a sub-ppg player 2 years running. Right now he's on pace for 69 points over 82 games - on probably the best team in the league.

Brayden Point is a great player, and he certainly had great playoffs last year. He's probably better than Kucherov defensively, and is a center of course - but give me the guy who scored 128 points very easily over Point. That offensive gap is huge.

Also - you mean the 2019 Colorado/Calgary series? The one where MacKinnon had 8 points in 5 games (which is great), while his own linemate Rantanen had 9 points in those 5 games? All the while having 2 more goals, and being +3 to Mack's 0 rating?

MacKinnon is great - but it gets too overstated how "he does everything alone". No - he has some high quality teammates in Colorado.

 

[BCNate]

You're being completely dishonest and it shows.
There are very few games where he doesn't have a few absolutely dominant shifts in the offensive zone.
There are very few games where he doesn't score.
There are very few games where he doesn't have a few solid defensive plays.

However, he shouldn't have a single vote here.

This list should include 3 players only:

Hedman
Mackinnon (my vote)
Draisaitl

And of those 3, Mack, Hedman are much more valuable to their teams than Drai.

Sorry for having a different opinion than you. Matthews has scored in less than half of his games over the past 2 years (That's lots of games, not very few FYI). His two way game is getting much better, but still has a ways to go. As I said, when he isn't scoring, he doesn't have much an impact on the games I've seen, which is many. Just my 2 cents, you can have yours too.

 

[authentic]

Sorry for having a different opinion than you. Matthews has scored in less than half of his games over the past 2 years (That's lots of games, not very few FYI). His two way game is getting much better, but still has a ways to go. As I said, when he isn't scoring, he doesn't have much an impact on the games I've seen, which is many. Just my 2 cents, you can have yours too.

He's scores in more games than any other player, and he's a dominant two-way player. Your opinion is wrong.

 

[NyQuil]

I went with Hedman but I can see a case for almost all the names in the poll really.

 

[Spirit of 67]

This week's thread is a good one.

 

[SuperScript29]

Most of these guys are legit superstars and for us to have someone like McDavid who is on a complete different level than these guys is something truly special to watch in our lifetime.

 

[Garthinater]

This just goes to show, Matthews is clearly better than Barkov despite that ridiculous poll.

Lol no it doesn't.

Barkov and matthews are very close and thats why the poll is almost 50-50.

 

[authentic]

Lol no it doesn't.

Barkov and matthews are very close and thats why the poll is almost 50-50.

Yeah, because polls with Matthews on hfboards always get it right.

Not a single team takes Matthews over Barkov, not a single ranking by anyone involved in the game has Barkov over Matthews.

 

[North Cole]

Yeah, because polls with Matthews on hfboards always get it right.

Not a single team takes Matthews over Barkov, not a single ranking by anyone involved in the game has Barkov over Matthews.

Agreed

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

MacKinnon is a very good choice for 2nd best, however Matthews has 30 goals in 30 healthy games this season (12 game stretch where his wrist was so bad he could hardly shoot he had 3 goals)

I love how the Matthews crowd has now turned to removing big chunks of the season, like no other player in the NHL plays through injury.

By the way, his wrist wasn't that bad. There was clips of him banging the glass with his 'bad wrist', and breaking his stick on the bench. It was just a slump, which is to be expected from any player.

Agreed

Oof