GWT: 2022-23 - English Domestic Cups (FA/Carabao)

[Jussi]

Super Paul Mullin on BBC!

 

[AlanHUK]

Every single former pro said it was a natural position for his arm to be in, including the former united players. There's no way to rationalise it being a correct decision

 

[Gecklund]

Every single former pro said it was a natural position for his arm to be in, including the former united players. There's no way to rationalise it being a correct decision

 

[hatterson]

Literally the way the rule is written on IFAB site.

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct | IFAB

Football foul rules, handball football rules, types of fouls in football

www.theifab.com

It is an offence if a player:

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
• scores in the opponents’ goal:
  • directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
  • immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental

Nothing unnatural about Grealish’s arm position given his movement.

Right but under current IFAB interpretations, having your hand at head height or higher is virtually never "justifiable" by the action you're taking. Basically they treat it as saying that if the action you're taking requires or forces your hand above your head, it's virtually never an action you should be safe, under the rules, as taking.

 

[KJS14]

Yeah I don’t think intent really matters about trying to make himself bigger. I might be wrong but that’s sort of the way I’ve always interpreted that part.

Don’t get me wrong I think it’s a weak call but it’s right by the rules.

Well per above, the rule is "unnaturally bigger."

It's certainly not black and white, but I'd argue pretty strongly that he was in a natural position from jumping. I more just can't get over the fact that VAR had the ref review that and not Casemiro's foul.

 

[Power Man]

Feels refreshing to spend the whole halftime watching studio analyze the half (on BBC feed) instead of watching 10 minutes of commercials.

watching the game on ITV, it’s just Roy Keane trolling lol

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Right but under current IFAB interpretations, having your hand at head height or higher is virtually never "justifiable" by the action you're taking. Basically they treat it as saying that if the action you're taking requires or forces your hand above your head, it's virtually never an action you should be safe, under the rules, as taking.

That’s a direct contravention of the literal laws as they’re written. If they’re “interpreting” their own rules to cancel handball guidance they’ve only just updated, they’re dumber than I’ve given them credit for.

Do you agree or disagree that Grealish’s arm position is natural for the movement?

 

[hatterson]

Well per above, the rule is "unnaturally bigger."

It's certainly not black and white, but I'd argue pretty strongly that he was in a natural position from jumping. I more just can't get over the fact that VAR had the ref review that and not Casemiro's foul.

The standard for VAR review is "clear and obvious error"

Under current interpretations, calling a ball hitting a hand in that position as not a pen is indeed a "clear and obvious error."

Casemiro's challenge was an orange one, but was it a "clear and obvious error" to not give it a red? Is it inarguable that a yellow wouldn't have been sufficient?

 

[Gecklund]

Well per above, the rule is "unnaturally bigger."

It's certainly not black and white, but I'd argue pretty strongly that he was in a natural position from jumping. I more just can't get over the fact that VAR had the ref review that and not Casemiro's foul.

He had his arm over his head. That’s not really a natural position at least has never really been interpreted as a natural position.

I have no comments on the Casemiro foul. I tuned in literally as the penalty went to VAR so I saw those replays but nothing on Casemiro.

 

[KJS14]

The standard for VAR review is "clear and obvious error"

Under current interpretations, calling a ball hitting a hand in that position as not a pen is indeed a "clear and obvious error."

Casemiro's challenge was an orange one, but was it a "clear and obvious error" to not give it a red? Is it inarguable that a yellow wouldn't have been sufficient?

This is kind of semantics though. We don't know the exact communication between VAR and the on-field ref, but I'd argue the handball is not a "clear and obvious error" either.

If it came out that the VAR ref communicated that the Casemiro tackle was late and further up the ankle, but the on-field ref said "no I saw it, just a yellow for me" then so be it. But I doubt that's what happened in that case.

Edit: and for the record, I think the "clear and obvious error" standard is dumb. Just have the refs communicate with each other when they think necessary.

 

[hatterson]

De Gea diving in slow mo there.

 

[Gecklund]

Welp that’s game considering De Gea can’t stop a beach ball at this point. GK is slowly becoming our most pressing position.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

De Gea sucks.

 

[Power Man]

GOATDOGAN

De Gea having Benrahma flashbacks

 

[Jussi]

De Gea sucks.

I don't blame him that much for that one, came behind a wall of players, saw it late and it went to the corner. Had he seen it earlier, might have gotten more hand on it.

 

[luiginb]

Welp that’s game considering De Gea can’t stop a beach ball at this point. GK is slowly becoming our most pressing position.

That's more on Varane for me, his letting the ball skip over his knee is what made De Gea see the ball late.

Gundogan can't stop scoring, I just want now to see City get a penalty, sooo curious about what's going to happen haha

 

[KJS14]

Losing Gundogan is honestly going to be a bigger deal than I think a lot of us appreciate right now. He's been unreal the last few seasons.

 

[luiginb]

City fans should complain less about that penalty and more about how neither Casemiro and Fred got booked so far.

 

[hatterson]

Losing Gundogan is honestly going to be a bigger deal than I think a lot of us appreciate right now. He's been unreal the last few seasons.

Yea, he plays such a huge role in the midfield. Either freeing up KdB to do his thing or proving that secondary threat when defenses shift over to cover the other guys.

 

[Gecklund]

United just don’t have the quality front to back like City to compete here. This game alone their issues are being highlighted with neon lights. Need a striker, CB, GK, and midfielder BAD.

 

[OKR]

It’s time to get rid of handball all together it appears. No player is going to touch the ball with his hand on purpose, and basically every position can be argued as natural since no player is going to be making ”unnatural” movements during a game.

De Gea is not a world class keeper, and basically never has been.

 

[hatterson]

It’s time to get rid of handball all together it appears. No player is going to touch the ball with his hand on purpose, and basically every position can be argued as natural since no player is going to be making ”unnatural” movements during a game.

De Gea is not a world class keeper, and basically never has been.

lol. He's taking steps back recently, but saying he was never world class is actually hilarious.

 

[Gecklund]

It’s time to get rid of handball all together it appears. No player is going to touch the ball with his hand on purpose, and basically every position can be argued as natural since no player is going to be making ”unnatural” movements during a game.

De Gea is not a world class keeper, and basically never has been.

He had some very strong arguments to being the best shot stopper in the world. To say he was never world class just makes you look dumb.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It’s time to get rid of handball all together it appears. No player is going to touch the ball with his hand on purpose, and basically every position can be argued as natural since no player is going to be making ”unnatural” movements during a game.

De Gea is not a world class keeper, and basically never has been.

What a stupid statement lmao.

 

[hatterson]

Eriksen has had a pretty invisible game today. Basically just roaming around the midfield but not actually doing anything.