2021 Seattle Expansion Thread

[Chaos2k7]

Lmao @ matheson or weegar taking his spot on the PP. you realize he’s an elite PP qb? One of the best in the league and has been for the past decade

Yandle gets way too much crap. You need offense from your blueline and he’s a key piece of the PP that has been a critical function for us winning games. He’s also a +5 so he’s not this huge liability people think he is.

6th in the league in points for d-men,
2nd in assists.

Crazy that people want him gone but are looking to keep Weegar (concussion issues) and Stillman (shiny new thing, totally unproven)

Same posters year after year just switching up the players they hate, and they always end up wrong.

Both Yandle and Hoffman do exactly what they were brought here to do and catch crap for it from the fanbase.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

Yandle is on pace for 33 pts on the PP this year, currently at 20 right now. He averages 27pts on the PP over his 4 years here but only average 18pts the first two years on the PP, why the sudden uptick to 39pts last year? You don't think Ekblad could add 8-10pts to his normal 5 goal, 10pt average? If anything, Ekblad has become more mobile with his puck handling and is often driving the net, shooting or setting up plays in the OZ a lot more. The ANA top cheese goal over Gibson sticks out to me.

We can use Ekblad on the PP more with other guys coming up and taking PK duties away from him. Matheson, Stralman and Stillman look to be key guys on that front.
As pointed out above, we have pretty good offense from defense 5 on 5.

Ekblad - 5 goals, on pace for 50 ish pts without any #1 PP time
Matheson - 6 goals, 30 ish pt guy if he stays on top pairing next year.
Weegar - 3 goals, on pace for 27 pts in only 61 games this year, 30-35 pts doesn't seem unattainable over 82 games.
Stralman - 4 goals, on pace for 30pts this year
Stillman - 20pts next year?

We don't have to score as many PP goals if we defend a little better, we've got way better at scoring 5 on 5. As I said, open to him here the rest of this year or next but he should be moved before expansion draft as we need his protection slot for someone else. Do you not agree Huberdeau could do some of what Yandle does on the PP?

Yandle is excellent roaming the line, I don't know if Huby could do the same. It would be a loss on PP imo but not a huge one. Ek would take that spot and he's shown pretty sweet hands this year to make me think he can do a good job. Losing Yands would be minor.

Plus no one mentions the benefit of removing a guy who isn't reliable defensively. That has value.

 

[RainingRats]

Yandle is excellent roaming the line, I don't know if Huby could do the same. It would be a loss on PP imo but not a huge one. Ek would take that spot and he's shown pretty sweet hands this year to make me think he can do a good job. Losing Yands would be minor.

Plus no one mentions the benefit of removing a guy who isn't reliable defensively. That has value.

He’s fine defensively. he’s a positive player, playing with essentially a rookie.

Also, adding Ekblad to PP1 means more minutes a game, for someone who leads the team in ice time. And then PP2 isn’t as effective.

All you guys were complaining about Barkov’s ice time affecting his performance. Let’s have our #1 play 25/6+ minutes a game

 

[violaswallet]

Eh I'm pretty happy that this thread blew up! Thanks guys for being interested as well.

Two main areas of tension seem to be:

1. Are Hoff and Yands valuable?
2. How do we rank defensemen beyond Ek?

First, I really want to emphasize how happy I am that we can protect our offensive talent: I think there is no crucial cog that we might lose really. Sure, I like Stillman a lot, but we can easily pay a premium to replace him!

W.r.t to Hoff and Yands, I think the big difference is relative cost and certainty. For 6.35M or 21st highest cap hits for defensemen, we get a top 3 power play defenseman who is good for team culture. I'm fine with this, especially given the market cost of replacing him with an equivalent player would be this or much higher. For reference, our of the 7 players signed to a UFA contract this season with at least a .7 ppg this season, he has the second lower cap hit and is almost identical to Ekholm. last season he had the lowest cap hit. For the Hoff, I think the issue is more cost certainty: we would all take his current game back for 5.2 or even say 7.2, the issue is more do we want his game back for say 8 or 9m. My view is probably not given that we have Tippett in the pipeline as a similar paper and the need to re-sign Huby and Barky soon...

In terms of defense, I take a very optimistic view: we don't have 3 super valuable defensemen we want to protect, say like Nashville with Josi-Subban-Ek-Ellis a few years back! We can wait to rank. (My guess is that no more than one of Matheson or Stillman explodes to their potential)

 

[airbud]

He’s fine defensively. he’s a positive player, playing with essentially a rookie.

Also, adding Ekblad to PP1 means more minutes a game, for someone who leads the team in ice time. And then PP2 isn’t as effective.

All you guys were complaining about Barkov’s ice time affecting his performance. Let’s have our #1 play 25/6+ minutes a game

Not only is he elite PP and a more than fine 3rd / 2nd line pairing, he brings a great locker room presence as well.

 

[KW]

LOL. Yandle is NOT “fine” defensively. That’s just an absurd claim.

The ONLY argument on behalf of Yandle is his PP presence and offense. Now y’all have totally lost it, trying to pretend Yandle is not a defensive liability. That’s rich lol.

Thanks for the laughs though.

 

[Chaos2k7]

LOL. Yandle is NOT “fine” defensively. That’s just an absurd claim.

The ONLY argument on behalf of Yandle is his PP presence and offense. Now y’all have totally lost it, trying to pretend Yandle is not a defensive liability. That’s rich lol.

Thanks for the laughs though.

His plus minus says you are over exaggerating things as usual.

He is an offensive defenseman, and fortunately Q has him insulated on the third pair at even strength. But he still is worth every bit of his salary and provides exactly what we need him to provide regardless of whether or not you consider it laughable or necessary.

You are literally jaded on every subject Panthers related.

 

[violaswallet]

His plus minus says you are over exaggerating things as usual.

He is an offensive defenseman, and fortunately Q has him insulated on the third pair at even strength. But he still is worth every bit of his salary and provides exactly what we need him to provide regardless of whether or not you consider it laughable or necessary.

You are literally jaded on every subject Panthers related.

It's clearly dichotomous thinking...

Obviously, Yandle isn't great defensively and frankly has a tendency of making very bad decisions on certain occasions, but he isn't Kindl bad for example... To be fair, it is tough to really compare levels when we can only compare among a couple players.

 

[KW]

His plus minus says you are over exaggerating things as usual.

He is an offensive defenseman, and fortunately Q has him insulated on the third pair at even strength. But he still is worth every bit of his salary and provides exactly what we need him to provide regardless of whether or not you consider it laughable or necessary.

You are literally jaded on every subject Panthers related.

I really hate it when people either intentionally or out of laziness change what someone has stated.

I’ll say it one more time. The only asset Yandle has is his offense. His defense is not good. I was specifically responding to this NEW claim that Yandle’s defense ain’t so bad. That’s just false - it’s bad. Yes, his offense makes up for it in a way, but NOBODY can pretend Yandle is good on defense.

If we make the playoffs, we’ll see whether his defense hurts more than his offense helps.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Yeah, Yandle is definitely bad defensively. If his defense was "fine" he'd be a top 10 d-man in the league. The ONLY reason he's tolerated is because of his offensive and pp prowess.

 

[Chaos2k7]

For 10 minutes a night at EV, he is better than fine on the 3rd pair.

Take a look around the league he is not a negative in any way. He is no defensive stopper but he is not some pylon like it is being made out to be.

 

[Dread Clawz]

For 10 minutes a night at EV, he is better than fine on the 3rd pair.

Take a look around the league he is not a negative in any way. He is no defensive stopper but he is not some pylon like it is being made out to be.

On some nights, he definitely is a pylon. If he was playing top 4 minutes at es regularly, he'd get exposed big time. I really don't care either way if he stays or goes. He adds a lot on the pp and is one of the best pp qb's in the league. But let's not pretend he's 'league wide average' defensively.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

W.r.t For 6.35M or 21st highest cap hits for defensemen, we get a top 3 power play defenseman who is good for team culture.

He's a goof and guys like him no doubt, who doesn't like good jokester? I mean I do. But the "good for culture" should die, it's based on nothing. Yandle hasn't won squat and this whole thing is about winning, nothing else. A guy like Willie Mitchell is good for culture. Or Justin Williams. Or many others, the list goes on. But I bet if you ask anyone around the league Yandle wouldn't be mentioned.

For 10 minutes a night at EV, he is better than fine on the 3rd pair.

When he's getting paid 6.4 million it isn't. He plays less than 4min/night PP when he's considered useful and the other 56 min he's the guy who the coach has to plan matchups for. Having him on the third pair makes zero sense.

 

[FrolikFan67]

I’m ok with keeping Yandle for his offensive abilities IF we move Stralman and matheson. My ultimate goal would be signing pietrangelo if he hits ufa. With Ekblad making 7.5 and Yandle at 6.35 that really limits your options to go after a big target.

for next year I want to retain (and ideally post expansion draft) Ekblad, weegar, stillman (on the third pairing). I’m ok with Yandle on the second pairing. Those two remaining spots, if we’re not fortunate enough to get pietrangelo then I still want two guys with more defensive and physical playstyles. Manson and Dillon would both be good fits. Dillon will probably get over paid a bit in ufa, but I may prefer someone like him potentially making what Stralman does over, well, Stralman. If we were paying for in his prime Stralman, then absolutely 5.5 is fair. But older, post injury strals? He hasn’t been anything special. Or at the very least I’d like to replace matheson with say a Manson.

Weegar-Ekblad
Yandle-Manson
Stillman-Stralman

stillman in for brown fulltime, and replacing matheson with Manson I think would go a long way.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

I’m ok with keeping Yandle for his offensive abilities IF we move Stralman and matheson. My ultimate goal would be signing pietrangelo if he hits ufa. With Ekblad making 7.5 and Yandle at 6.35 that really limits your options to go after a big target.

for next year I want to retain (and ideally post expansion draft) Ekblad, weegar, stillman (on the third pairing). I’m ok with Yandle on the second pairing. Those two remaining spots, if we’re not fortunate enough to get pietrangelo then I still want two guys with more defensive and physical playstyles. Manson and Dillon would both be good fits. Dillon will probably get over paid a bit in ufa, but I may prefer someone like him potentially making what Stralman does over, well, Stralman. If we were paying for in his prime Stralman, then absolutely 5.5 is fair. But older, post injury strals? He hasn’t been anything special. Or at the very least I’d like to replace matheson with say a Manson.

Weegar-Ekblad
Yandle-Manson
Stillman-Stralman

stillman in for brown fulltime, and replacing matheson with Manson I think would go a long way.

You still end up wondering what for the Cats are paying $6.4mil for Yandle when he's on the 3rd pairing playing 15mins per night. When Weegar comes back those minutes take another hit, going down to maybe 12mins per game. Thus, I'm not okay that Yandle is on this team in any shape or form with his price tag. If he had a similar salary to that of Shattenkirk then there wouldn't be no issues. The only reason why folks are trying to create a narrative for Yandle being a crucial part of this team is kinda like a coping mechanism because of his NMC which effectively chains him with the club. Sure there's plenty of other players that need to sharpen up their play but in Yandle's case... come on, you'd think that the standards would be a lot higher for that salary. I'd reckon that we gotta go see through Yandle getting absolutely manhandled and allowing easy giveaways and goals like Pez dispenser in the playoffs before we can reach the inevitable conclusion that we gotta get rid off this guy asap.

 

[RainingRats]

You still end up wondering what for the Cats are paying $6.4mil for Yandle when he's on the 3rd pairing playing 15mins per night. When Weegar comes back those minutes take another hit, going down to maybe 12mins per game. Thus, I'm not okay that Yandle is on this team in any shape or form with his price tag. If he had a similar salary to that of Shattenkirk then there wouldn't be no issues. The only reason why folks are trying to create a narrative for Yandle being a crucial part of this team is kinda like a coping mechanism because of his NMC which effectively chains him with the club. Sure there's plenty of other players that need to sharpen up their play but in Yandle's case... come on, you'd think that the standards would be a lot higher for that salary. I'd reckon that we gotta go see through Yandle getting absolutely manhandled and allowing easy giveaways and goals like Pez dispenser in the playoffs before we can reach the inevitable conclusion that we gotta get rid off this guy asap.

Average ice time is 20 minutes a game this season for Yandle.

 

[Prominence Problem]

I know it's early, but say Weegs eggs are scrambled, and MM just isn't Figuring mistakes out, I don't see any need to give Seattle a draft pick to protect a certain player. Let them pick who they want, and so be it.

 

[RainingRats]

I know it's early, but say Weegs eggs are scrambled, and MM just isn't Figuring mistakes out, I don't see any need to give Seattle a draft pick to protect a certain player. Let them pick who they want, and so be it.

you give them a pick bc it buys you cap space with MM

 

[Dread Clawz]

I know it's early, but say Weegs eggs are scrambled, and MM just isn't Figuring mistakes out, I don't see any need to give Seattle a draft pick to protect a certain player. Let them pick who they want, and so be it.

I can see us giving them a 2nd to protect Vatrano or Acciari. Expose the one who you feel you can live with letting go.

 

[violaswallet]

Given the new signings what has changed?

1. Forsling has become a top D
2. Bennett and Verhaege are definitely being protected
3. Do we protect Hornqvist?
4. Will Yandle waive his NMC?
5. Could we use cap retention to get rid of Stralman?
6. Zito sent away a good bit of futures recently: what do we sell to Seattle?

 

[Mogo]

Seattle Expansion Draft Simulator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Good place you can see who are exposed and you can play around to see who we could protect

Here you protect

F:Huberdeau, Barkov, Horn, Bennett, Vatrano, Verhaeghe and then you decide Duclair or Acciari. I'm towards Duclair because Acciari is UFA after next season
Exposed: Duclair or Acciari, Wallmark, Lammikko?, Marchment

D: Ekblad, Yandle, Weegar
Exposed: Stralman, Nutivaara, Gudas, Forsling?

According to this site Forsling and Lammikko dont need to be exposed?
If I'm reading it right only Acciari, Marchment, Stralman, Nutivaara, Gudas, Monty will be exposed if we go with the list I protected

Hope we can swing a deal so they take Stralman. Buyout Yandle (untradable)

Worst case scenario we lose one of Nutivaara, Forsling or Gudas and still stuck with Stralman, Yandle

 

[Dread Clawz]

The buyout period is before the expansion draft, so we'll know more about our plans after that. Wrt Yandle.

 

[violaswallet]

Seattle Expansion Draft Simulator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Good place you can see who are exposed and you can play around to see who we could protect

Here you protect

F:Huberdeau, Barkov, Horn, Bennett, Vatrano, Verhaeghe and then you decide Duclair or Acciari. I'm towards Duclair because Acciari is UFA after next season
Exposed: Duclair or Acciari, Wallmark, Lammikko?, Marchment

D: Ekblad, Yandle, Weegar
Exposed: Stralman, Nutivaara, Gudas, Forsling?

According to this site Forsling and Lammikko dont need to be exposed?
If I'm reading it right only Acciari, Marchment, Stralman, Nutivaara, Gudas, Monty will be exposed if we go with the list I protected

Hope we can swing a deal so they take Stralman. Buyout Yandle (untradable)

Worst case scenario we lose one of Nutivaara, Forsling or Gudas and still stuck with Stralman, Yandle

View attachment 424879[/QUOTE
"
A team must expose at least 2 forwards and 1 defenseman who meet the following criteria:

• They have to be under contract in 2021-22
• They played in 27 or more NHL games in 2020-21 OR
• They played in 54 or more NHL games in 2019-20- and 2020-21 combined*

A team must expose one goalie who meets the following criteria:

• They have to be under contract in 2021-22 OR
• They have to be an RFA going into the 2021-22 season.

"
This minimum exposure requirement ensures that Seattle is offered decent players by each team and that a team doesn't manipulate the contract situation. Forsling doesn't satisfy that criterion due to contract status; however, he is not longer exempt.

This minimum exposure requirement ensures that Seattle is offered decent players by each team and that a team doesn't manipulate the contract situation. Forsling doesn't satisfy that criterion due to contract status; however, he is not longer exempt.​

 

[FrolikFan67]

They have to move Yandle, some how. They can’t lose Forsling under any circumstance.

plus, if we get rid of Yandle somehow, not only do we protect all of our major D (aside from Gudas) but also all of our forwards too (Acciari being exposed doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things).

then re-sign montour after the expansion draft and we’d have 4 D already set in place with Ekblad, Weegar, forsling, montour. Just move Yandle and shed Stralman too. The D transformation is nearly complete

 

[Gizmo Tkachuk]

They have to move Yandle, some how. They can’t lose Forsling under any circumstance.

plus, if we get rid of Yandle somehow, not only do we protect all of our major D (aside from Gudas) but also all of our forwards too (Acciari being exposed doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things).

then re-sign montour after the expansion draft and we’d have 4 D already set in place with Ekblad, Weegar, forsling, montour. Just move Yandle and shed Stralman too. The D transformation is nearly complete

We suddenly have so much depth on D. Even when removing Yandle and Stral, the bottom 6 rounds out with Nuti and Gudas. And there's still Kiersted and Juulsen