Transfer: 2020 Summer Transfer Window Rumors Part III

[bleedblue1223]

Rather have the money.

I don't think the a Tomori loan would knock the price down, would just give them a starting caliber CB without spending money, and provides him playing time for Chelsea.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

If you're buying a player like Rice just to play him out of position, you're doing it wrong.

He's a natural CB. If anything, DM is him playing out of position. People will scoff, but I'm pretty confident Rice is a better CB than Tomori right now, today. He just hasn't played there to show it because West Ham need him more in the midfield.

 

[bleedblue1223]

He's a natural CB. If anything, DM is him playing out of position. People will scoff, but I'm pretty confident Rice is a better CB than Tomori right now, today. He just hasn't played there to show it because West Ham need him more in the midfield.

You can make the argument he'd be Chelsea's best CB. Didn't he develop as a CB at West Ham. I know he was a midfielder at Chelsea when he got released from the academy.

 

[Blender]

Don't disagree. Kovacic is critical to our overall game, just trying to show how what he brings isn't something that Havertz would bring, so they aren't redundant pieces. Mount looks like the player that we hoped Oscar could've been, and I don't mean that as an insult. I think he can develop a complete game, so Lampard would be able to play with 2 attacking "8's" ahead of Kante. I just think it's odd that people seem to think a Havertz would be redundant. We just don't have a reliable goal threat from the midfield. If people want to say Ziyech, the difference is Havertz is someone to build around, where Ziyech is currently in his prime.

I agree they aren't redundant. The way I view Havertz is that he's a talent that doesn't become available very often, and whether he's our biggest need or not if we have a good chance of getting him and have the money, we should be making that move. If we have to sell someone else in order to plug a hole elsewhere, so be it, but you don't pass on Havertz just because of that.

Mount's defensive game has improved a lot over this season, he tracks back very well and has no problem supporting our defense. He's obviously an attacking player and we still need someone more defensively capable in the midfield to be behind him, but at least he's not a liability.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

You can make the argument he'd be Chelsea's best CB. Didn't he develop as a CB at West Ham. I know he was a midfielder at Chelsea when he got released from the academy.

He always played CB at youth levels at West Ham. Only played in the midfield when he got to senior level because, A) they needed him there, and B) because they wanted to develop his skills with the ball (similar to how Reece Oxford played at DM a lot when he first got called up). He's a natural CB, but depending on the club his future can be at either position.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I agree they aren't redundant. The way I view Havertz is that he's a talent that doesn't become available very often, and whether he's our biggest need or not if we have a good chance of getting him and have the money, we should be making that move. If we have to sell someone else in order to plug a hole elsewhere, so be it, but you don't pass on Havertz just because of that.

Mount's defensive game has improved a lot over this season, he tracks back very well and has no problem supporting our defense. He's obviously an attacking player and we still need someone more defensively capable in the midfield to be behind him, but at least he's not a liability.

Yeah, Havertz's potential is someone to build a club around for years, it would be silly to pass on that, even if I thought he was a luxury.

I'll be curious to see how he develops. He's shown a lot for being such a young player, and is one of the players that Lampard most trusts. I anticipate him growing into a leadership role as the young guys become the core group and the older players move on.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Is he reliable?

 

[Blender]

Is he reliable?

No, but we can wish.

 

[bleedblue1223]

No, but we can wish.

Too many to keep up with.

 

[Blender]

Too many to keep up with.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I know of the Chelsea guys and the big names that we all are familiar with.

 

[Blender]

I know of the Chelsea guys and the big names that we all are familiar with.

Simon Phillips "confirmed" that Kevin Palmer tweet, who is considered Tier 3 (unreliable). So he's sometimes right, but not enough to be considered credible at all.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Kovacic and Mount aren't difference makers.

Kante has struggled with injuries this season unfortunately, he doesn't really drive play from a ball-playing perspective but he generates a lot of turnovers that we can quickly transition into a counter-attack. He's always been at his best when playing for a side that doesn't care as much about possession and instead looks to exploit counter-attack opportunities (Leicester City, Chelsea under Conte, Chelsea under Lampard depending on the opponent).

Barkley is the most frustrating player in the league, tons of talent but whenever he has time on the ball he makes terrible decisions. Every once and a while some magic shines through and he makes a difference, but it's the exception instead of the rule.

Abraham has not been great for quite a while now to the point of losing his first choice spot to Giroud, who has generally been a better option for multiple reasons. Hopefully Werner gives us a reliable goal scoring threat in that position while also bringing some of the link-up play ability that Giroud has. Werner obviously doesn't hold the ball up like Giroud does so well and doesn't have the presence in the box that Abraham does, so there are trade offs either way.

Gilmour has loads of talent but he needs to catch up physically to his ability. He just turned 19, so give him time of course.

You didn't even mention RLC who is getting back to being fit after being off for a year. He was probably our best midfielder last year before getting injured, forced his way into Sarri's side despite not really being a good fit for that system because he was driving the ball forward so well.

Ziyech can play in the middle but I expect him to take over Willian's spot as the first choice right winger. I want Willian back because he's still a top quality player, but who knows there.

Our biggest weakness by far is left-back.

I said as much about Kante, Barkley and Gilmour. Sorry, but I do not see Mount and Kovacic as difference makers. I think Chelsea could do better in midfield than both of them. They can obviously play, but not stars. And you responded so quickly that you didn't even allow me to edit about RLC. I edited like one minute after my post. I don't see how midfield isn't a need, especially if Jorginho leaves. Who would even be the back up to Kante? Is Kovacic going to play deep? Surely you can not expect Gilmour to be the back up yet. Maybe in 2-3 years. And isn't Mount more of an attacker anyway than a two-way midfielder?

It seems like Chelsea definitely needs another holding midfielder. I would bring one in even if Jorginho stays. I would look at it as trying to have two players for each of the positions. Kante and Jorginho for the 6, Kovacic and ? for the 8 and Mount and RLC for the 10. I would sell Barkley, and loan out Gilmour. I think Havertz can play box to box, but unless thats done, I would say that a Rice-style midfielder is a lot more of a need than another attacker, if Havertz is going to play primarily in attacking positions.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I thin they need both. I'm very unconvinced by their central midfield.

Kante's gonna play, but he doesn't drive play. Gilmour looks like a little boy and plays like it also. Can't be relied on yet. Barkley is English Mo Dahoud. Is Jorginho even going to be at the club past the summer? Kovacic and Mount aren't bad, but not huge difference makers.

If Jorginho stays, they have Kante, Jorginho, Mount and Kovacic for three positions. Maybe Ziyech can also play there. They need more options, preferably true holding midfielders.

They probably need a CB, as well. GK and LB are also needs. This is why going for Havertz this summer makes no sense, unless you plan to use him full time as a box to box midfielder. The Werner signing didn't even make sense to me. You have Pulisic, CHO, Ziyech and probably also Willian for the wings, Abraham and Giroud for the striker positions. Thats certainly stronger than what they have in midfield and at the back besides RB. I could understand going for Werner if Willian didn't return. How much money are they going to have to spend? They need another CB, a LB, another midfielder or two and potentially a goalkeeper? Meanwhile, they've brought in two attackers, potentially three with Havertz, when that was the deepest part of their squad.

Edit: Forgot RLC. I still think they need another option, probably a holding midfielder.

Mount Kovacic and Kante is a very good base for a midfield. RLC is good depth(and starting potential) and Jorginho is good but I'm not sure he fits Lampards system. I think Chelsea has a pretty good thing going in midfield honestly. Plus Rice would be good depth at DM behind Kante until they find his replacement as Kante is getting to the end of his prime in the next couple years I'd say.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think it's also odd that so many seem to rate our attack. Tammy isn't a title winning #9, yet. Mount and RLC can't be relied on to be the attacking midfielder, one is young and unproven and one has always been hurt. I like Mount, but it would be silly to have title and Euro hopes with him as main starting in the attacking midfield spot. Kovacic has been great this year, but he's not someone that adds to the end product, he's amazing in the transition game though. Giroud is a solid rotational player. Willian is likely to move on. Hudson-Odoi is still all potential at this point.

Abraham had a pretty good season. I don't see the point trying to buy over the guy. And if you aren't going to be patient with him and instead decide buy over him, you might as well just sell him for a lot of money. Keeping him as a back up or an option doesn't make much sense. He's probably going to be a Chelsea caliber starting #9 within another year or two. He was very good in stretches this year in his first season at the top level. Not completely consistent, but very encouraging season, in my opinion. Giroud can deputize and bring a different presence when Abraham is struggling.

I don't mind the Werner fee, as it was very low, but the player is overrated, and if he's going to play CF, you are potentially buying over Abraham. I'm not even convinced he can play wide under a different manager. Nagelsmann does voodoo type stuff that only the Guardiola's can do with a player's technique. I'm not convinced he's any more than a fast poaching central striker under another coach. That move just didn't make sense to me.

Is Willian actually likely to move on? I've seen its up in the air. I would think if it was likely he would already have agreed a contract elsewhere. Agree about CHO, but what's the point in completely blocking his pathway? Yes, a bad season for the kid, but as a back up, there's no point in buying over him there. There's already Ziyech, Pulisic and Werner, who will fill a role somewhere in that attack. Surely Chelsea has enough options to fill out another spot and the bench between Abraham, Giroud, Mount, CHO, maybe Willian. I think Chelsea could've done without Werner, and can definitely do without Havertz, unless he's only planned as a box to box midfielder. Chelsea has bigger problems further from goal.

 

[Blender]

I said as much about Kante, Barkley and Gilmour. Sorry, but I do not see Mount and Kovacic as difference makers. I think Chelsea could do better in midfield than both of them. They can obviously play, but not stars. And you responded so quickly that you didn't even allow me to edit about RLC. I edited like one minute after my post. I don't see how midfield isn't a need, especially if Jorginho leaves. Who would even be the back up to Kante? Is Kovacic going to play deep? Surely you can not expect Gilmour to be the back up yet. Maybe in 2-3 years. And isn't Mount more of an attacker anyway than a two-way midfielder?

It seems like Chelsea definitely needs another holding midfielder. I would bring one in even if Jorginho stays. I would look at it as trying to have two players for each of the positions. Kante and Jorginho for the 6, Kovacic and ? for the 8 and Mount and RLC for the 10. I would sell Barkley, and loan out Gilmour. I think Havertz can play box to box, but unless thats done, I would say that a Rice-style midfielder is a lot more of a need than another attacker, if Havertz is going to play primarily in attacking positions.

Kovacic absolutely has been a difference maker this year, it's not even debatable. He's playing like the player he was hyped to be early in his career. What do you mean "Kovacic going to play deep?" Kovacic does play deep, he rarely ever goes into the box and has decent defensive stats despite not being used in a defensive role like Kante. Kovacic's role is literally to play deep and to drive the ball forward in transition and to be a deep passing option when attacking. He's not a passive holding midfielder like Jorginho who is static in front of the centerbacks, but Kovacic is the modern version of a deep playmaker who will roam around to support the attack and defense and can pass or dribble the ball into space to progress the ball forward, rather than the quickly becoming outdated "regista" that Jorginho is. We don't need that type of player, and I see no indications that Lampard even likes using anyone in that role. I wasn't happy that we bought Kovacic for £40m after his performance under Sarri, but I've been proven completely wrong and that is now looking like a bargain. Sure maybe Chelsea could do better than Kovacic and Mount if we drop another £200m on midfielders, but that doesn't seem realistic given our needs.

Mount is more of an attacker, but as I said in another post his defensive game has come a long way this year and he's been doing a good job of tracking back to help defend and to provide outlet options to our defenders from deep in our end. I think Lampard sees Mount as a young version of himself, and expects him to develop into an all-around midfielder, which is definitely how I see him trending as well.

I'll just repeat from above that I don't think we need or want a holding midfielder. I'd be fine with another ball-winning midfielder like Kante is for a backup, but we certainly don't need a holding player considering Lampard's entire system is based on fluid movement. My ideal midfielder to add if Kante were leaving is Ndidi, but he'd probably cost a fortune.

I'll say again that our biggest weakness is left-back right now, considering we added a right-winger in Ziyech and another striker/winger/attacking midfielder in Werner. Havertz isn't our biggest need, but you don't pass up the chance to land that much talent.

 

[Blender]

Abraham had a pretty good season. I don't see the point trying to buy over the guy. And if you aren't going to be patient with him and instead decide buy over him, you might as well just sell him for a lot of money. Keeping him as a back up or an option doesn't make much sense. He's probably going to be a Chelsea caliber starting #9 within another year or two. He was very good in stretches this year in his first season at the top level. Not completely consistent, but very encouraging season, in my opinion. Giroud can deputize and bring a different presence when Abraham is struggling.

I don't mind the Werner fee, as it was very low, but the player is overrated, and if he's going to play CF, you are potentially buying over Abraham. I'm not even convinced he can play wide under a different manager. Nagelsmann does voodoo type stuff that only the Guardiola's can do with a player's technique. I'm not convinced he's any more than a fast poaching central striker under another coach. That move just didn't make sense to me.

Is Willian actually likely to move on? I've seen its up in the air. I would think if it was likely he would already have agreed a contract elsewhere. Agree about CHO, but what's the point in completely blocking his pathway? Yes, a bad season for the kid, but as a back up, there's no point in buying over him there. There's already Ziyech, Pulisic and Werner, who will fill a role somewhere in that attack. Surely Chelsea has enough options to fill out another spot and the bench between Abraham, Giroud, Mount, CHO, maybe Willian. I think Chelsea could've done without Werner, and can definitely do without Havertz, unless he's only planned as a box to box midfielder. Chelsea has bigger problems further from goal.

Abraham had 11 goals in his first 14 games and has 2 over his next 15. He hasn't even scored in the league in 9 appearances. He's not being written off, but considering the chances he has been getting he hasn't been anywhere near clinical enough to be a starter for a top 4 side.

 

[Savant]

Is he reliable?

No. Talks a lot of fake stuff on Liverpool too. All he does is regurgitate tabloid info. He is a broken watch guy.

 

[Cassano]

Would be interesting to see how CR7 reacts when Lacazette is twerking with the ball in the Juve half.

 

[John Pedro]

Lacazette for Thomas Partey would be good for both sides.

 

[Evilo]

Terrier has signed with Rennes. OL will get 12M.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Source is pretty good. Seems like we lost out on the transfer fee, and it'll be 25M. At least get the guy signed. How long is this going to drag on? And that appears to be the end of our spending this summer, which I don't completely mind. I would've liked another LB, but limited funds this summer, so we'll have to make do with what we have.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Unreliable source, so take it for what it's worth, but Bild is saying Sancho is unsure about United because they aren't guaranteed Champions League football. I don't believe the source to begin with, but it's not as if he'd transfer before the end of the Premier League season. If they qualify, they are guaranteed Champions League football. If they don't, then I guess it could be less likely. Either way, it won't be an unknown by the end of the month. Could become a total non-issue, even if it's true.

 

[robertmac43]

Anyone want a promising 21 year old?

 

[Blender]

Jorginho starting to look the odd man out in Chelsea midfield plans | Jacob Steinberg

Last season, however, there was the controversy of Maurizio Sarri using Jorginho in a deep-lying role and moving Kanté to the right. It was an awkward fit and Lampard wants Kanté shielding the back four. Jorginho, booked 13 times this season, lacks the pace to perform defensive duties and there is a feeling that Gilmour has a sharper range of passing and movement.

____________________________________________________

“He does not have to do anything different,” Lampard said. “He trains well, he shows me that he’s good for the group, on and off the pitch, he’s vice-captain of the club. It’s purely my choice with what I see from the games, how I want the make-up of my midfield to be.”

Yet change is in the air at Chelsea. Lampard wants a new left-back, with Leicester’s Ben Chilwell his top target. He is concerned about his side’s physical shortcomings when defending set pieces and is tracking West Ham’s Declan Rice, who can play at centre-back or defensive midfield.

Chelsea, who have already sharpened their attack by buying Timo Werner from RB Leipzig and Hakim Ziyech from Ajax, are also leading the race to sign Bayer Leverkusen’s Kai Havertz. Bayern Munich have said that they cannot afford Havertz this summer and it is understood that the 21-year-old German does not want to wait a year before leaving Leverkusen. A move to London appeals to the attacking midfielder.

Lampard wants more creativity. He has complained about Chelsea’s ability to break teams down this season, criticising their slow passing. Yet the Watford game hinted at a solution. Mount moved back from the No 10 role and thrived as a No 8, impressing with snappy, aggressive passing.

“I do like midfield players who can perform not all the roles but can play high, can play on the side, can do the defensive duties and Mason really has that,” Lampard said. “His work off the ball is fantastic and if I feel like getting him high up the pitch to put more pressure on the other team if they want to play out, that can help us off the ball.

“Sometimes I’ll ask him to do a slightly different role where he comes deeper to make sure he’s not missing out on the ball. Ross can perform that kind of role. Kovacic can perform that kind of role. Ruben Loftus-Cheek can perform that kind of role. Kanté can perform that kind of role. Gilmour can. Jorginho also can but his role predominantly in his career has been from a deeper position. I like to work on the midfield, making it as fluid as it possibly can be.”

There was the message for Jorginho: become more flexible, more rounded. It is not over yet but the clock is ticking.

Essentially Jorginho has not been playing lately because he's not flexible enough in games and not fitting into the system. They don't want him sitting so deep and expect him to get more forward to press like Kovacic and others do.