2020 HHOF Class (Iginla, Hossa, Wilson, Lowe, St-Pierre, Holland)

[Weztex]

And they'll wait a lot longer. Tbh, I wouldn't even put AM in.

I don't get the popular opinion that Mogilny is a huge Hall of Fame snub. We're talking about a player who received TWO single Hart trophy votes in his whole career, the two being the same year. Granted he pretty much never played a full season, he still was only 2 times top-10 in points per games. Add to that a significant drop in production come playoff time and you get a very middling resume.

He was very skilled and and amazing player to watch but I always felt the results weren't up where they should have been. He has the Triple Crown going for him and the fact that he was the first drafted player to defect. I'll be happy if he gets in but I still think is case is really borderline.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I don't think that you understand. The HHOF isn't going to induct most of the top-40 scorers from the Deadpuck era.
The rate at which they're still inducting mediocre players from the 1980-1995 period over much more deserving DPE players is giving us a glimpse at what they're going to do. When all is said and done, 50 players from the videogame stat era are going to be HOF'ers and 20 DPE players will be inducted. If Daniel Sedin finished 2nd in scoring that year, he'd probably wouldn't have a shot at the HHOF and would have to witness Brian Bellows get inducted over him.

If you take a look at the HHOF committee, most of the former players on it are from that exact period you describe. So it kind of makes sense that there's a lot of players from that era inducted, because a large chunk of the committee played against or with them. Hopefully we start seeing some dead puck era players get on the committee soon.

 

[Roksta]

He was also on a team with Alfredsson, who was better than him.

I said « in his prime ». 18-24 years old Hossa is not prime Hossa

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Pierre turgeon has a lady byng trophy should he be in, I mean he has 1327 points.

Turgeon should definitely be in.
Roenick too.

These guys were great players.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I said « in his prime ». 18-24 years old Hossa is not prime Hossa

He was 25 when he was traded, and his highest point finish was with the Senators, so it was pretty close to his prime, if not his prime (maybe his first two seasons in Atlanta were a bit better).

 

[Weztex]

That list makes no sense why the sedins should go in together they played in a not so big market like Vancouver, I mean big but not as big of a market like Minnesota Chicago or Detroit, and Daniel wasn’t even in the top 25 scorers of the 2000s he was 27th henrik was 19th.

First, you could bundle up some of your comments/observations in single post. Posting each time you think of a player ends up cloggin up the thread.

Now why would you judge the Sedins based on what they did in the 2000 decade. This amounts to about half of their careers. Bryan Trottier is behind Glenn Anderson in the 80's and 32th in the 70's. Those kind of cutoffs don't do justice to a lot of players.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I don't get the popular opinion that Mogilny is a huge Hall of Fame snub. We're talking about a player who received TWO single Hart trophy votes in his whole career, the two being the same year. Granted he pretty much never played a full season, he still was only 2 times top-10 in points per games. Add to that a significant drop in production come playoff time and you get a very middling resume.

He was very skilled and and amazing player to watch but I always felt the results weren't up where they should have been. He has the Triple Crown going for him and the fact that he was the first drafted player to defect. I'll be happy if he gets in but I still think is case is really borderline.

He had his career year in the super high scoring 1992-93.

Then had the most well-rounded seasons of his career in Toronto.

Vastly overrated player, so many other non-HHOF forwards I'd put in over Mogilny for basically reasons you said.

 

[trentmccleary]

The only players on that list that won’t make the hall in the top 40 are brunette, gaborik, Lang, jokinen, prospal, smyth, heatley, arnott, naslund, Richards & kovalchuk.

I don't think that you understand. The HHOF isn't going to induct most of the top-40 scorers from the Deadpuck era.
The rate at which they're still inducting mediocre players from the 1980-1995 period over much more deserving DPE players is giving us a glimpse at what they're going to do. When all is said and done, 50 players from the videogame stat era are going to be HOF'ers and 20 DPE players will be inducted. If Daniel Sedin finished 2nd in scoring that year, he'd probably wouldn't have a shot at the HHOF and would have to witness Brian Bellows get inducted over him.

 

[Sinistril]

But you gotta remember though their have been guys who have been waiting over 12 years like mogilny and fleury.

And they'll wait a lot longer. Tbh, I wouldn't even put AM in.

 

[wetcoast]

I much prefer the photo of Mats with that female film star out there.

 

[Confused Turnip]

Hockey Hall of FAME.

Kevin Lowe isn't getting in for his ability or performance. He is getting in for being famous and in the old boys club.

The amount of luck someone has to have to get a free ride to 6 cups, and then go on to create nightmares for a franchise for many years even after retirement. Those "skills" are unmatched.

What can you say about the man? He had a legitimate talent for following Mark Messier around.

 

[bertuzzi2bure]

IMO

Luongo over Joseph. Better for much longer. Played for worse teams longer too. Although it is close.

Both Hossa and Alfi shouldnt get in. Elias? Lecavalier? Lol are you kidding me?

If Elias has a case then Naslund does as well.... and Naslund shouldnt be in there.

I love Iginla but I also think he is quite borderline.... he is as borderline as it gets though. I could see his case, but im not sure tbh.

Bring on the hate.

PS: Canucks fan here I also think Sedins are borderline as well. To me, Sedins and Iginla are as close as it gets. I can see the case for them to be in there and not be in there.

From Luongos time in Vancouver I think his absolute peak was better than the Sedins. Unfortunately he got shafted from the Hart when Crosby won it (even though Pens didnt make the playoffs). He also got shafted from the Vezina from Broduer, even though NJ had clearly the much better team. Before any of you fanboys attack me im not taking anything away from Crosby or Brodeur. I just think Luongo was more deserving of the Hart and Vezina that year. I think he came 2nd for both.

 

[Giotrapani91]

I don't think that you understand. The HHOF isn't going to induct most of the top-40 scorers from the Deadpuck era.
The rate at which they're still inducting mediocre players from the 1980-1995 period over much more deserving DPE players is giving us a glimpse at what they're going to do. When all is said and done, 50 players from the videogame stat era are going to be HOF'ers and 20 DPE players will be inducted. If Daniel Sedin finished 2nd in scoring that year, he'd probably wouldn't have a shot at the HHOF and would have to witness Brian Bellows get inducted over him.

I didn’t say they would get inducted cuz the guys I mentioned won’t

 

[Giotrapani91]

And they'll wait a lot longer. Tbh, I wouldn't even put AM in.

Why he was the first Russian to defect to the nhl he came into the league before fedorov. He has hardware a lady byng trophy in 2003, he’s part of the triple gold club winning gold as a 19 year old in 1988, he won gold in world juniors as a 20 year old thst same year he won a world championship and he was the first European trained captain in NHL history, yeah Stan Mikita was born in Czechoslovakia but he immigrated to Canada when he was like 5 or 6. And Mikita played for Canada internationally he trained in Canada.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Unfortunately he got shafted from the Hart when Crosby won it (even though Pens didnt make the playoffs).

Crosby won the Hart in 2007 and in 2014; the Penguins made the playoffs both years.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

AM has a retroactive Rocket.

Dude scored 76 goals in a season.

I dunno, I know he had a major lull in the middle of his peak, but I sorta think he's a shoo-in.

Lead the League in goals (pre-Rocket trophy)
1000 points
Cup winner

Seems to hit most of the major check-boxes.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

IMO

Luongo over Joseph. Better for much longer. Played for worse teams longer too. Although it is close.

Both Hossa and Alfi shouldnt get in. Elias? Lecavalier? Lol are you kidding me?

If Elias has a case then Naslund does as well.... and Naslund shouldnt be in there.

I love Iginla but I also think he is quite borderline.... he is as borderline as it gets though. I could see his case, but im not sure tbh.

Bring on the hate.

PS: Canucks fan here I also think Sedins are borderline as well. To me, Sedins and Iginla are as close as it gets. I can see the case for them to be in there and not be in there.

From Luongos time in Vancouver I think his absolute peak was better than the Sedins. Unfortunately he got shafted from the Hart when Crosby won it (even though Pens didnt make the playoffs). He also got shafted from the Vezina from Broduer, even though NJ had clearly the much better team. Before any of you fanboys attack me im not taking anything away from Crosby or Brodeur. I just think Luongo was more deserving of the Hart and Vezina that year. I think he came 2nd for both.

Is this by your own standards that you think the HHOF should have, or your interpretation of the standards they already set? Because by the standards of the HHOF, there are already players in the HHOF that weren't as good as Hossa, Alfredsson, or Elias. Iginla is an obvious first-ballot by the HHOF standards. Luongo and the Sedins will almost certainly get in too.

 

[StoneHands]

reading the tsn headlines...If Hossa gets in before Alfie...that's a crime. And I love Hossa

How would it be a crime if Hossa gets in before Alfy? They have very similar numbers. Hossa was a slightly better goal scorer and Alfy was a slightly better point scorer. Both were good two way players but I give the edge to Hossa. The big difference is 3 Cups to 0 and whether we want to admit it or not, it's important the the HoF voters. You can say you think one deserves it more than the other but a "crime"? Really?

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

How would it be a crime if Hossa gets in before Alfy? They have very similar numbers. Hossa was a slightly better goal scorer and Alfy was a slightly better point scorer. Both were good two way players but I give the edge to Hossa. The big difference is 3 Cups to 0 and whether we want to admit it or not, it's important the the HoF voters. You can say you think one deserves it more than the other but a "crime"? Really?

Well that post is from over a year ago, and Hossa already did get in over Alfredsson, so it's not an "if" anymore. I guess the line of thinking is that you're absolutely correct, they're very similar levels of players, but Alfie has had to wait 3 or 4 years of being passed over, while Hossa got in his first year of eligibility. It just doesn't seem right.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Hall of Fame standards are too low

 

[robsenz]

How would it be a crime if Hossa gets in before Alfy? They have very similar numbers. Hossa was a slightly better goal scorer and Alfy was a slightly better point scorer. Both were good two way players but I give the edge to Hossa. The big difference is 3 Cups to 0 and whether we want to admit it or not, it's important the the HoF voters. You can say you think one deserves it more than the other but a "crime"? Really?

Alfredsson lead his team year after year, where Hossa never had that pressure, he was a great player, but never was the goto guy on any team he ever played for in his entire career. Again, I'm a huge Hossa fan in saying this.

 

[Weztex]

AM has a retroactive Rocket.

Dude scored 76 goals in a season.

I dunno, I know he had a major lull in the middle of his peak, but I sorta think he's a shoo-in.

Lead the League in goals (pre-Rocket trophy)
1000 points
Cup winner

Seems to hit most of the major check-boxes.

The thing with Mogilny is that outside of that 1992-93 season (where he still finished only 7th in points) there's not many individual moments that point to a Hall of Fame career. If not for that one season, he falls under point per game in his career. He scored 76 goals in the highest scoring season in history but still finished tied with Selanne. That outlier season almost seems like an outlier in his own career.

As for his Stanley Cup, he was 11th in team scoring with 7 points in 23 games. He also was the first soviet player to defect but not the first eastern player to do so (Nedomansky, The Stastnys...). When you put things in their context, I think Mogilny is one of the player who's legacy suffers the most.

Fortunately for him, context is not something the Hall of Fame is good at.

 

[Regal]

IMO

Luongo over Joseph. Better for much longer. Played for worse teams longer too. Although it is close.

Both Hossa and Alfi shouldnt get in. Elias? Lecavalier? Lol are you kidding me?

If Elias has a case then Naslund does as well.... and Naslund shouldnt be in there.

I love Iginla but I also think he is quite borderline.... he is as borderline as it gets though. I could see his case, but im not sure tbh.

Bring on the hate.

PS: Canucks fan here I also think Sedins are borderline as well. To me, Sedins and Iginla are as close as it gets. I can see the case for them to be in there and not be in there.

From Luongos time in Vancouver I think his absolute peak was better than the Sedins. Unfortunately he got shafted from the Hart when Crosby won it (even though Pens didnt make the playoffs). He also got shafted from the Vezina from Broduer, even though NJ had clearly the much better team. Before any of you fanboys attack me im not taking anything away from Crosby or Brodeur. I just think Luongo was more deserving of the Hart and Vezina that year. I think he came 2nd for both.

Iginla being borderline would completely change how the Hall of Fame is voting on. He's better than half the players in there.

Also, Elias was a much better defensive player and playoff performer than Naslund and was a high-end contributor for far longer, finishing with better career totals. His production was also hurt at various times due to his team spreading out ice time and playing a defensive system, but he still had as many top 10 finishes as Naslund. They're not really comparable. Naslund only has 4 seasons as an elite player.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

The thing with Mogilny is that outside of that 1992-93 season (where he still finished only 7th in points) there's not many individual moments that point to a Hall of Fame career. If not for that one season, he falls under point per game in his career. He scored 76 goals in the highest scoring season in history but still finished tied with Selanne. That outlier season almost seems like an outlier in his own career.

As for his Stanley Cup, he was 11th in team scoring with 7 points in 23 games. He also was the first soviet player to defect but not the first eastern player to do so (Nedomansky, The Stastnys...). When you put things in their context, I think Mogilny is one of the player who's legacy suffers the most.

Fortunately for him, context is not something the Hall of Fame is good at.

You could use context to downplay or play-up his accomplishments as well.
You could use comparables to downplay or play-up his accomplishments.

Mike Modano is in the HHOF, but I don't recall him ever being top 10 in scoring.
AlMo's been top 10 in scoring twice with a whole slew of other HHOF players.

That 76 goal Rocket he shares with Selanne is also Selanne's outlier season as well.

If you were to ask me 10 years ago if Mogilny belonged in the Hall, I'd say No F'n Way.


But I think the standards have changed, and unless they start limiting Hall entrances to 1 per year, Al-Mo is a lock to get in.
1000 points, a cup, and some hardware seems to be a pretty low bar, but he has hit them all.

 

[bertuzzi2bure]

Thought about it more and change my stance on Iginla. I think he definitely deserves it but first ballot im not sure. Loved his game. Also an amazing leader and person. Loved watching him, even when he tore my Canucks up lol.

Im still against Elias getting in. Alfi and Hossa are more deserving but I still dont know if they should be in either.

 

[Weztex]

You could use context to downplay or play-up his accomplishments as well.
You could use comparables to downplay or play-up his accomplishments.

Mike Modano is in the HHOF, but I don't recall him ever being top 10 in scoring.
AlMo's been top 10 in scoring twice with a whole slew of other HHOF players.

That 76 goal Rocket he shares with Selanne is also Selanne's outlier season as well.

If you were to ask me 10 years ago if Mogilny belonged in the Hall, I'd say No F'n Way.


But I think the standards have changed, and unless they start limiting Hall entrances to 1 per year, Al-Mo is a lock to get in.
1000 points, a cup, and some hardware seems to be a pretty low bar, but he has hit them all.

Modano finished top-10 3 times, which is more than Mogilny. He also have the regularity, complete game, longevity and leadership over him.

If you take out Selanne’s 1993 season, he still is quite comfortably a HoFer. Mogilny’s resume is quite below Steven Stamkos at this point. If you take out his 1993 season, his resume is clearly below Markus Naslund. That’s Vincent Damphousse territory.

I’m not sure standards changed that much. There’s always been questionable inductions in the HoF. Gerry Cheevers is not a better induction than Cujo. Bill Barber wasn’t a better player than John LeClair or Jeremy Roenick. Bernie Federko isn’t more Hall worthy that Patrik Elias. There will always be borderline candidates wherever we put the line. As of now, Mogilny wouldn’t be the worst player in there but he would probably be in the lower tier. And since everybody want the Hall to up it’s standards, that’s exactly the kind of induction that wouldn’t right the course.

 

[Weztex]

Thought about it more and change my stance on Iginla. I think he definitely deserves it but first ballot im not sure. Loved his game. Also an amazing leader and person. Loved watching him, even when he tore my Canucks up lol.

Im still against Elias getting in. Alfi and Hossa are more deserving but I still dont know if they should be in either.

Again, this I don’t get.

You either deserve to be in or you don’t. What’s the point of waiting to induct a player if he deserves to be in? To make sure he knows there’s better players than him already in?

 

[Confused Turnip]

Mogilny won world junior gold, Olympic gold and world championship gold in the same year while being key contributor on two of those teams. 76 goal rocket, cup, 1000 points, first defector. Half the damn Hall has a worse resume than that. The Bure-Fedorov-Mogilny connection is also extremely noteworthy in fame terms.

As for Hall of Fame comparables in terms of on paper performance, Paul Kariya had a similar career but a little bit worse in every measure and got in not too long ago.