Are we really doing the one game thing?
Using future results to determine what was happening in the present is foolish. The champion’s league argument is all well and good, but arsenal had finished out of CL for the first time in a long time and Liverpool had finished 8th(!!!) the year before. Arsenal hasn’t finished that low since I don’t know when.
Liverpool has had two good years and may well have another. Let’s not pretend like they were yet on another strata at that point. This bull**** from ‘Pool fans is why most of the board was cheering for Barcelona in the semis. Liverpool finally wins a trophy and their fans become even more insufferable.
Meh I think it was fair to say Liverpool were a step up. They were in the CL, despite the one point you mentioned. And they showed ambition.
Arsenal at the time were a broken squad
You mean 2016-17 right? If Ramsey's goal wasn't called offside they finish top 4 that season.If Wenger didn't literally play his entire B team in the opening fixture against Liverpool that year (4-3 loss), we finish ahead of them and in the top 4. Ox didn't leave to take a "step up," that's just revisionist history.
If Wenger didn't literally play his entire B team in the opening fixture against Liverpool that year (4-3 loss), we finish ahead of them and in the top 4. Ox didn't leave to take a "step up," that's just revisionist history.
You mean 2016-17 right? If Ramsey's goal wasn't called offside they finish top 4 that season.
The 2017-18 season was a nightmare from the start. Starting with the last second Lemar bid by Gazidis. We were clearly a step down at that point in time.
Liverpool did the same thing with their back line in that game, btw.
Mane had a freak injury that season as well. We can play the what if game all day, but it doesn't matter because none of that stuff actually happened.
I don't recall Liverpool's entire squad from that year, but it looks like all of their starters played except for Matip actually. Wenger started Holding and Chambers at the back, Coquelin and Elneny in midfield, and Iwobi as well.
And I'm not trying to play what ifs. Just telling you that there wasn't a gap between Arsenal and Liverpool at the time.
Moreno wasn't a starter and Mignolet wasn't supposed to be either. He was the starter because Karius punched someone on accident during a friendly while trying to clear the ball. Our squad that season was all sorts of messed up. There was a point where they were top of the league, but they shouldn't have been. Then there was a game against Stoke that Klopp decided we had a good enough point cushion to just lose the game by starting a bunch of players who had hardly played, and they won anyway.
At the time of Ox's move, when Mane had returned from injury and Salah had been signed, there was a gap and it was clear where the two clubs were headed. I have no idea how anyone could not admit this.
To be fair I forgot that Milner played a lot of LB that season and Karius/Mignolet is probably a toss up no matter who really was the starter.
And I don't think there was any clear gap between the two clubs at the time. Arsenal had just bought Lacazette themselves. With hindsight its obvious that Liverpool went on to have a much better year.
Iwobi isn't as bad as people think but doesn't have consistent end product considering the skills he has and Ox is injury prone. Both are still young though.
I don't think he's bad at all. Not what I'm saying. For the price it's bad, because they already have Richarlison and Sigurdsson it's bad. He's likely going to play on the right, so it's bad. Because their only decent #9 is Kean and not Auba or Lacazette, it's bad.
If Wenger didn't literally play his entire B team in the opening fixture against Liverpool that year (4-3 loss), we finish ahead of them and in the top 4. Ox didn't leave to take a "step up," that's just revisionist history.
Liverpool did the same thing with their back line in that game, btw.
Mane had a freak injury that season as well. We can play the what if game all day, but it doesn't matter because none of that stuff actually happened.
Liverpool played Coutinho, Mane, Firmino, Henderson, Lovren, Clyne, Lallana, Wijnaldum, Moreno, Klavan.
Arsenal played Sanchez, Iwobi, Ramsey, Walcott, El Neny, Coquelin, Bellerin, Monreal, Holding, Chambers.
Sanchez, Ramsey, Bellerin, and Monreal were really the only starters that played. And we couldn't hear the end of it from Liverpool. After you guys finished 1 point ahead. Thanks to playing Arsenal's B team.
#neverforget.
I mean, I still don't think one year of being in the CL when Arsenal wasn't represents a clear stepup, nor do I think that adding Salah and Robertson is a clear show of ambition. Salah wasn't expected to be this good (mainly because of his finishing at Roma) and Robertson wasn't expected to be world class that fast. Arsenal had added Laca and Kolasinac, who was a top free signing. If you take out Chambo, Arsenal outspent LiverpoolMeh I think it was fair to say Liverpool were a step up. They were in the CL, despite the one point you mentioned. And they showed ambition.
Arsenal at the time were a broken squad
1. Klopp also celebrated a draw against West Brom, so let's not make it outWe have to make something clear about that 8th place finish because you keep bringing it up.
1. They were trying to win the Europa League because of how the season started with Rodgers, and made the decision to bench players every week.
2. They were closer to the league champions in that season than Arsenal were to Liverpool last season. They were 6 points off of fourth place, and 21 points off the top while actively attempting not to compete in many league games. Klopp made the decision one week to start Brad Smith, Pedro Chirivella, Sheyi Ojo, and Kevin Stewart. So let's put that 8th place into some context.
3. They would have won the Europa League and qualified for the CL if the ref in the final wasn't completely bent.
I said it was a step up. I don't think I needed to clarify that at the time it was a small step up. You made the rest about another level up yourself. As for the insufferable part, some of you should look in the mirror. After all the prognostications around here, there are plenty of people who definitely deserve it.
Is this supposed to be a good burn? Like yeah, arsenal didn’t win a trophy last year and Liverpool did. But even if we wanna play that game, it’s not true because Denis Suarez won the Supercopa with Barcelona before coming on loan.How does it feel that James Milner won more trophies last season than everyone on your team from last season combined?
Not really.Lo Celso on paper is the better player, but remember that he failed at PSG
Not really.
Do we need a separate Arsenal v. Liverpool thread now? Maybe just a dedicated thread for Gooners to play the "if it wasn't for that one (bad ref, missed kick, poor player, etc.) we (would've won, been better than, etc.)" game. Seems to be a recurring theme around these parts. What fanbase are they going to nitpick a fight with now? I'm rooting for Brighton.