Transfer: 2019 Summer Transfers News, Rumors, and Discussion; Part 9

[Cassano]

We played Ox, a player that was about to be sold to them in LB and benched our regular LB and starting striker vs Liverpool away. That was one of the peak banter club era moments, of course Liverpool were a massive step up.

 

[Live in the Now]

Are we really doing the one game thing?

Using future results to determine what was happening in the present is foolish. The champion’s league argument is all well and good, but arsenal had finished out of CL for the first time in a long time and Liverpool had finished 8th(!!!) the year before. Arsenal hasn’t finished that low since I don’t know when.

We have to make something clear about that 8th place finish because you keep bringing it up.

1. They were trying to win the Europa League because of how the season started with Rodgers, and made the decision to bench players every week.

2. They were closer to the league champions in that season than Arsenal were to Liverpool last season. They were 6 points off of fourth place, and 21 points off the top while actively attempting not to compete in many league games. Klopp made the decision one week to start Brad Smith, Pedro Chirivella, Sheyi Ojo, and Kevin Stewart. So let's put that 8th place into some context.

3. They would have won the Europa League and qualified for the CL if the ref in the final wasn't completely bent.

Liverpool has had two good years and may well have another. Let’s not pretend like they were yet on another strata at that point. This bull**** from ‘Pool fans is why most of the board was cheering for Barcelona in the semis. Liverpool finally wins a trophy and their fans become even more insufferable.

I said it was a step up. I don't think I needed to clarify that at the time it was a small step up. You made the rest about another level up yourself. As for the insufferable part, some of you should look in the mirror. After all the prognostications around here, there are plenty of people who definitely deserve it.

 

[KJS14]

Meh I think it was fair to say Liverpool were a step up. They were in the CL, despite the one point you mentioned. And they showed ambition.

Arsenal at the time were a broken squad

If Wenger didn't literally play his entire B team in the opening fixture against Liverpool that year (4-3 loss), we finish ahead of them and in the top 4. Ox didn't leave to take a "step up," that's just revisionist history.

 

[Cassano]

If Wenger didn't literally play his entire B team in the opening fixture against Liverpool that year (4-3 loss), we finish ahead of them and in the top 4. Ox didn't leave to take a "step up," that's just revisionist history.

You mean 2016-17 right? If Ramsey's goal wasn't called offside they finish top 4 that season.

The 2017-18 season was a nightmare from the start. Starting with the last second Lemar bid by Gazidis. We were clearly a step down at that point in time.

 

[Live in the Now]

If Wenger didn't literally play his entire B team in the opening fixture against Liverpool that year (4-3 loss), we finish ahead of them and in the top 4. Ox didn't leave to take a "step up," that's just revisionist history.

Liverpool did the same thing with their back line in that game, btw.

Mane had a freak injury that season as well. We can play the what if game all day, but it doesn't matter because none of that stuff actually happened.

I'm also not seeing how any of this stuff is relevant. I thought we were talking about Iwobi's move. I brought up that he's moving to a worse team with a better player on the left, they have a better #10, and they have nobody on the right side. Not sure how this is a good transfer at all.

 

[KJS14]

You mean 2016-17 right? If Ramsey's goal wasn't called offside they finish top 4 that season.

The 2017-18 season was a nightmare from the start. Starting with the last second Lemar bid by Gazidis. We were clearly a step down at that point in time.

Yeah, 2016-17 - the year Liverpool finished 1 point ahead of us in 4th. We sold Ox to them that summer.

Liverpool did the same thing with their back line in that game, btw.

Mane had a freak injury that season as well. We can play the what if game all day, but it doesn't matter because none of that stuff actually happened.

I don't recall Liverpool's entire squad from that year, but it looks like all of their starters played except for Matip actually. Wenger started Holding and Chambers at the back, Coquelin and Elneny in midfield, and Iwobi as well.

And I'm not trying to play what ifs. Just telling you that there wasn't a gap between Arsenal and Liverpool at the time.

 

[Live in the Now]

I don't recall Liverpool's entire squad from that year, but it looks like all of their starters played except for Matip actually. Wenger started Holding and Chambers at the back, Coquelin and Elneny in midfield, and Iwobi as well.

And I'm not trying to play what ifs. Just telling you that there wasn't a gap between Arsenal and Liverpool at the time.

Moreno wasn't a starter and Mignolet wasn't supposed to be either. He was the starter because Karius punched someone on accident during a friendly while trying to clear the ball. Our squad that season was all sorts of messed up. There was a point where they were top of the league, but they shouldn't have been. Then there was a game against Stoke that Klopp decided we had a good enough point cushion to just lose the game by starting a bunch of players who had hardly played, and they won anyway.

At the time of Ox's move, when Mane had returned from injury and Salah had been signed, there was a gap and it was clear where the two clubs were headed. I have no idea how anyone could not admit this.

 

[KJS14]

Moreno wasn't a starter and Mignolet wasn't supposed to be either. He was the starter because Karius punched someone on accident during a friendly while trying to clear the ball. Our squad that season was all sorts of messed up. There was a point where they were top of the league, but they shouldn't have been. Then there was a game against Stoke that Klopp decided we had a good enough point cushion to just lose the game by starting a bunch of players who had hardly played, and they won anyway.

At the time of Ox's move, when Mane had returned from injury and Salah had been signed, there was a gap and it was clear where the two clubs were headed. I have no idea how anyone could not admit this.

To be fair I forgot that Milner played a lot of LB that season and Karius/Mignolet is probably a toss up no matter who really was the starter.

And I don't think there was any clear gap between the two clubs at the time. Arsenal had just bought Lacazette themselves. With hindsight its obvious that Liverpool went on to have a much better year.

 

[Live in the Now]

To be fair I forgot that Milner played a lot of LB that season and Karius/Mignolet is probably a toss up no matter who really was the starter.

And I don't think there was any clear gap between the two clubs at the time. Arsenal had just bought Lacazette themselves. With hindsight its obvious that Liverpool went on to have a much better year.

I think there was, but I would also point out that some of this was related to the managers at the time. The stubborn attitude of the one now gone had a hell of a lot to do with it, it was rather difficult to believe he should do anything other than step down at the time.

 

[phisherman]

That Liverpool game was Holding's debut. I mean you can't compare the make shift squad that Liverpool played vs Arsenal's in that game.

As for the Iwobi and Ox transfer I'm just happy Arsenal were able to get the amount they were able to considering the amount of transfer outs they've botched.

Iwobi isn't as bad as people think but doesn't have consistent end product considering the skills he has and Ox is injury prone. Both are still young though.

 

[Live in the Now]

Iwobi isn't as bad as people think but doesn't have consistent end product considering the skills he has and Ox is injury prone. Both are still young though.

I don't think he's bad at all. Not what I'm saying. For the price it's bad, because they already have Richarlison and Sigurdsson it's bad. He's likely going to play on the right, so it's bad. Because their only decent #9 is Kean and not Auba or Lacazette, it's bad. It's an uphill battle for him the whole way.

 

[phisherman]

I don't think he's bad at all. Not what I'm saying. For the price it's bad, because they already have Richarlison and Sigurdsson it's bad. He's likely going to play on the right, so it's bad. Because their only decent #9 is Kean and not Auba or Lacazette, it's bad.

Yea. He would be best suited at Sig's position but he will have to play on the wings yet again. It was pretty much Everton being desperate and Arsenal taking advantage of it.

 

[Havre]

If Wenger didn't literally play his entire B team in the opening fixture against Liverpool that year (4-3 loss), we finish ahead of them and in the top 4. Ox didn't leave to take a "step up," that's just revisionist history.

Agree.

My impression was Ox wanted to play in midfield. I doubt he would have left Arsenal if he had felt he could have established himself as a CM there.

 

[Edo]

Liverpool did the same thing with their back line in that game, btw.

Mane had a freak injury that season as well. We can play the what if game all day, but it doesn't matter because none of that stuff actually happened.

Liverpool played Coutinho, Mane, Firmino, Henderson, Lovren, Clyne, Lallana, Wijnaldum, Moreno, Klavan.
Arsenal played Sanchez, Iwobi, Ramsey, Walcott, El Neny, Coquelin, Bellerin, Monreal, Holding, Chambers.

Sanchez, Ramsey, Bellerin, and Monreal were really the only starters that played. And we couldn't hear the end of it from Liverpool. After you guys finished 1 point ahead. Thanks to playing Arsenal's B team.

#neverforget.

 

[Live in the Now]

Liverpool played Coutinho, Mane, Firmino, Henderson, Lovren, Clyne, Lallana, Wijnaldum, Moreno, Klavan.
Arsenal played Sanchez, Iwobi, Ramsey, Walcott, El Neny, Coquelin, Bellerin, Monreal, Holding, Chambers.

Sanchez, Ramsey, Bellerin, and Monreal were really the only starters that played. And we couldn't hear the end of it from Liverpool. After you guys finished 1 point ahead. Thanks to playing Arsenal's B team.

#neverforget.

Oh look, it's the king of ridiculous claims. Some of you are completely obsessed. One of many reasons last season was so satisfying. At the end of it you had to suffer with Liverpool or Spurs winning the European Cup. How funny is that?

Just so you know, it isn't 2016 anymore, it's 2019. Your team finished a grand total of 27 points behind mine, and out of the CL while Liverpool won another Champions League. How does it feel that James Milner won more trophies last season than everyone on your team from last season combined?

 

[bluesfan94]

Meh I think it was fair to say Liverpool were a step up. They were in the CL, despite the one point you mentioned. And they showed ambition.

Arsenal at the time were a broken squad

I mean, I still don't think one year of being in the CL when Arsenal wasn't represents a clear stepup, nor do I think that adding Salah and Robertson is a clear show of ambition. Salah wasn't expected to be this good (mainly because of his finishing at Roma) and Robertson wasn't expected to be world class that fast. Arsenal had added Laca and Kolasinac, who was a top free signing. If you take out Chambo, Arsenal outspent Liverpool

I think we're letting the ensuing results rewrite history.

 

[bluesfan94]

We have to make something clear about that 8th place finish because you keep bringing it up.

1. They were trying to win the Europa League because of how the season started with Rodgers, and made the decision to bench players every week.

2. They were closer to the league champions in that season than Arsenal were to Liverpool last season. They were 6 points off of fourth place, and 21 points off the top while actively attempting not to compete in many league games. Klopp made the decision one week to start Brad Smith, Pedro Chirivella, Sheyi Ojo, and Kevin Stewart. So let's put that 8th place into some context.

3. They would have won the Europa League and qualified for the CL if the ref in the final wasn't completely bent.



I said it was a step up. I don't think I needed to clarify that at the time it was a small step up. You made the rest about another level up yourself. As for the insufferable part, some of you should look in the mirror. After all the prognostications around here, there are plenty of people who definitely deserve it.

1. Klopp also celebrated a draw against West Brom, so let's not make it out

2. Sweet. What happened last season is entirely irrelevant to what happened in 16/17. They were in 8th place no matter how you cut it. That one week wouldn't have made the difference in qualifying, and having shitty squad depth isn't something that you excuse when talking about a team's level.

3. Okay, but they didn't.

I mean, a step up literally implies another level. Otherwise you wouldn't need to take a step up. So you trying to parse hairs on what word you did or didn't use is rather silly. I'm not saying there aren't some insufferable Arsenal fans here. There are people making outrageous claims in this thread and others in favor of Arsenal.

How does it feel that James Milner won more trophies last season than everyone on your team from last season combined?

Is this supposed to be a good burn? Like yeah, arsenal didn’t win a trophy last year and Liverpool did. But even if we wanna play that game, it’s not true because Denis Suarez won the Supercopa with Barcelona before coming on loan.

 

[Live in the Now]

1. Klopp explains THAT celebration after West Brom draw - Football365

He wasn’t celebrating the draw and has explained himself.

2. They didn’t have bad depth. They did have some bad players Klopp inherited though. I think you may be unaware of the circumstances of that season. The players were heavily undertrained to play how Klopp wanted them to. The team finally got in the right fitness and good form. Some dude subsequently broke Origi’s leg because they got mad they were losing a game. Klopp made the decision to treat the Europa League with greater priority and not care about the league table. There were other games with very weak lineups for this reason. None of the fans cared about the league that season either. It was a good and fun season.

You’re fixated on the eighth place part, but not the part where they binned a mediocre manager and made a European final before the new manager ever signed someone. Yes, it is eighth, but the point differences in that season mattered.

The two clubs were going in a different direction at the time Ox signed. Everyone else knows it.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Lo Celso on paper is the better player, but remember that he failed at PSG

Not really.

 

[Havre]

Not really.

He did playing Lyon.

N'Dombele ran in circles around Lo Celso (actually quite funny watching)

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I'm not saying he was fantastic or anything but he absolutely didn't "fail" at PSG. He was misused quite a bit.

So excited to see him play for us.

 

[Havre]

Failed is a strong word. Never impressed me much (few viewings), but even a player like Messi can't adapt to any style and position.

Sissoko is the best example from a Spurs point of view. Useless as an AM/winger. Close to brilliant as a CM.

Hope we are getting a better player than Lo Celso from PSG, but I am pretty sure that will be the case so...

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Do we need a separate Arsenal v. Liverpool thread now? Maybe just a dedicated thread for Gooners to play the "if it wasn't for that one (bad ref, missed kick, poor player, etc.) we (would've won, been better than, etc.)" game. Seems to be a recurring theme around these parts. What fanbase are they going to nitpick a fight with now? I'm rooting for Brighton.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Do we need a separate Arsenal v. Liverpool thread now? Maybe just a dedicated thread for Gooners to play the "if it wasn't for that one (bad ref, missed kick, poor player, etc.) we (would've won, been better than, etc.)" game. Seems to be a recurring theme around these parts. What fanbase are they going to nitpick a fight with now? I'm rooting for Brighton.

My only time at the Emirates was against Brighton, Gunners won 2-0

 

[maclean]

Iwobi had his moments but I couldn't help but feel he often had absolutely no idea what to do with the ball once he got to the final third. 40m for him and thus financing a good part of our acquisitions is a good bit of business any day from my perspective. I wouldn't want to overhype this window, but compared to what we're used to it's finally a step in the right direction.