HF Habs: 2019 Montreal Canadiens Training Camp Part 3: The Final Countdown

[ZUKI]

People say Tatar and even Gallagher, to some degree, aren't clear cut first line material either. I mean there are players I don't like. That's what I'll say to you : don't like him. But your obsession with Danault is crazy man. He came off a pretty good season where everything you wrote doesn't apply AT ALL. We can argue whether or not he's our future 2nd line center or whether of not he can sustain last year's play, but the kid is improving year after year and I see little evidence to suggest he won't keep making strides forward.

I'll add this : I hope our kids view him as an example. A guy with less talent than they have, but does everything else right and the simplicity of his game makes him have chemistry with good north-south players. I hope our kids can pride themselves in doing the dirty work and have the same work ethic. Until they do, send them in the minors where they belong. We are not the ****ing oilers.

That's a very good point you bring .For the first part of your post , i also agree that his obsession with Danault turns to be unwholesome at that point

 

[Milhouse40]

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

so Fleury and Suzuki make the team eh?

 

[habsfan891]

so Fleury and Suzuki make the team eh?

Apparently I wont be suprised if fleury sits thursday though

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

So the final lineup is presumably;

Lehkonen - Domi - Suzuki
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Drouin - Kotkaniemi - Weal
Byron - Thompson - Armia

Mete - Weber
Chiarot - Petry
Kulak - Fleury

Price
Kinkaid

 

[Habs4Life]

So the final lineup is presumably;

Lehkonen - Domi - Suzuki
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Drouin - Kotkaniemi - Weal
Byron - Thompson - Armia

Mete - Weber
Chiarot - Petry
Kulak - Fleury

Price
Kinkaid

It's actually not a bad lineup, its not cup contender, but playoffs very possible. If KK doesn't play well we call up Phoeling and let him try.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

It's actually not a bad lineup, its not cup contender, but playoffs very possible. If KK doesn't play well we call up Phoeling and let him try.

The missing link is clearly on the top pairing on the left side.

 

[montreal]

Joel Bouchard certainly has a good reputation as a coach.

However, the line between good and bad coach has always been blurry for me. I tend think more along the lines of "show me a good coach and i'll show you a good team".


Maybe - we'll never know. I think one of the elements that impacts a player the most from a coaching perspective is obviously ice time.

Players have to play to develop and I agree with you that SL had some curious lineup management decisions.

But would things have been different for the lot of prospects he coached had he managed them more effectively? Or had someone else managed them?

I don't know.


I don't think it's all on the players...but I do think fans overestimate the impact a coach can have on players.


See this is what I mean

I've seen it repeated often here and in the media about how Jake Evans has looked good and it's because of the work he did with Joel Bouchard.

He played 67 games with the Rocket last year.

But no one gives credit to Jeff Jackson who coached him for 4yrs at Notre Dame and probably has/had the biggest impact on Evans as a player to date.


Agreed - but like I said, i'm not trying to say coaches have no impact at all.

There's no way any of us can know since we aren't there in the locker room or at practice to know what's being said. In many cases I would bet that a good team has a good coach, of course there are likely some good teams with bad or average coaches just as there are bad team or average teams will good coaches.

What would change to those teams if you replaced the coach? How many times do you see a team fire a coach and go from bad to good or at least much better. How much of that is from the coach, we just can't know so we can only speculate.

The reason I gave MB/Lefebvre so much heat was because you had 2 guys that were hired that didn't have 1 day of experience at their job. MB had never been a GM at any point and Lefebvre had never been a head coach before. So you don't know how good or bad they will be at their job since there is no track record. If they went in another direction and just say that somehow they could have hired someone like Guy Boucher, would anything have changed for all those prospects that didn't progress/develop? We can't know but I would bet everything I own that things would have gone at least a little better and the only thing I have to go off is listening to both talk hockey.

As for Evans of course Jeff Jackson gets credit for helping him be the player he is now, he's one of the best coaches in the NCAA. Look at @Whitesnake's favorite team Michigan, they had one of the best coaches in the history of the NCAA (former Hab at that) and since he retired the program has been a shell of it's self. Yet they still churn out NHLers and get top quality NHL draft picks to sign up to play there but after years of being one of the very best programs in the NCAA they have been more average of late. How much of that is on coaching? we don't know but I'll always lean on coaching is an important part of the game.

 

[417]

There's no way any of us can know since we aren't there in the locker room or at practice to know what's being said. In many cases I would bet that a good team has a good coach, of course there are likely some good teams with bad or average coaches just as there are bad team or average teams will good coaches.

What would change to those teams if you replaced the coach? How many times do you see a team fire a coach and go from bad to good or at least much better. How much of that is from the coach, we just can't know so we can only speculate.

The reason I gave MB/Lefebvre so much heat was because you had 2 guys that were hired that didn't have 1 day of experience at their job. MB had never been a GM at any point and Lefebvre had never been a head coach before. So you don't know how good or bad they will be at their job since there is no track record. If they went in another direction and just say that somehow they could have hired someone like Guy Boucher, would anything have changed for all those prospects that didn't progress/develop? We can't know but I would bet everything I own that things would have gone at least a little better and the only thing I have to go off is listening to both talk hockey.

As for Evans of course Jeff Jackson gets credit for helping him be the player he is now, he's one of the best coaches in the NCAA. Look at @Whitesnake's favorite team Michigan, they had one of the best coaches in the history of the NCAA (former Hab at that) and since he retired the program has been a shell of it's self. Yet they still churn out NHLers and get top quality NHL draft picks to sign up to play there but after years of being one of the very best programs in the NCAA they have been more average of late. How much of that is on coaching? we don't know but I'll always lean on coaching is an important part of the game.

Red Berenson will go down as one of the best coaches in college hockey history...he was there for so long, he established a program, one that still lives on today.

That's a legacy he left behind and it bleeds into their recruiting classes.

A bit different then pro sports where coaches very rarely have the opportunity to coach for long where they can establish their own program/legacy.

But point well taken.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Good for them. Preseason is just such an odd duck. You can't discount it TOTALLY (would be easier if that was the case) as good players have done good things in preseason and went on to do good things in the regular season obviously but of course many have done good and have become duds.

Fleury does look like he might have top 4 potential though. Still might just be a really good 3rd pairing guy. Wonder if Lindgren's prediction will hold water in the future. Kid has good tools for sure. I doubt many thought he'd be in the top 6 to start the year.

Even with Ikonen looking like he might be done that '17 draft is looking solid right now. 4 guys with solid pro potential.

If Juulsen can get back in the swing we have some solid kids back there. A few more in the oven that may even have higher upside than the kids on the team now.

 

[1909]

Apparently I wont be suprised if fleury sits thursday though

They did not keep Fleury to sit him.

 

[1909]

Fleury with #20 !!!!

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

They did not keep Fleury to sit him.

Ya Fleury is here because he won that 3rd RD spot. If he starts to struggle, we send him down.

 

[1909]

So the final lineup is presumably;

Lehkonen - Domi - Suzuki
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Drouin - Kotkaniemi - Weal
Byron - Thompson - Armia

Mete - Weber
Chiarot - Petry
Kulak - Fleury

Price
Kinkaid

It seems they gonna put Armia on the 3rd and Weal on the 4th.

 

[scrubadam]

It's actually not a bad lineup, its not cup contender, but playoffs very possible. If KK doesn't play well we call up Phoeling and let him try.

Its really on Drouin/Domi/KK. This team isn't going anywhere if these guys don't improve on last year. If they have better years than last year we could challange for a top 3 spot because there is a lot of depth on this team for 5 v 5.

PP will still struggle unless of course Drouin steps up like I said above.

Also Price will need to have a top 5 year, but he is paid for that. I actually like our D think its pretty decent.

If Drouin can get his head out of his ass and get 60+ points, KK scores on the road and improves on last season, and Domi shows consistency at the end of the year the team will make noise. Drouin stinks and KK takes a step back its going to be a long year.

 

[Mrb1p]

Ya Fleury is here because he won that 3rd RD spot. If he starts to struggle, we send him down.

Or you live with the struggles of a young kid with huge upside...

 

[Deebs]

Ya Fleury is here because he won that 3rd RD spot. If he starts to struggle, we send him down.

For sure. If he starts to feel rushed out there, drop him down and let him regain his confidence.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

So the final lineup is presumably;

Lehkonen - Domi - Suzuki
Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Drouin - Kotkaniemi - Weal
Byron - Thompson - Armia

Mete - Weber
Chiarot - Petry
Kulak - Fleury

Price
Kinkaid

Kotkaniemi doesn't belong with the big team yet. Better send him to Laval when he bring back his shape while Cousins makes the 4th line. Weal center the 3rd line so it will be :
Drouin-Weal-Byron and
Cousins-Thompson-Armia

The rest stays the same.

 

[1909]

Kotkaniemi doesn't belong with the big team yet. Better send him to Laval when he bring back his shape while Cousins makes the 4th line. Weal center the 3rd line so it will be :
Drouin-Weal-Byron and
Cousins-Thompson-Armia

The rest stays the same.

We gonna have to be patient here. IF KK is still struggling after 20-25 games, they gonna make that decision. Not before.

 

[Whitesnake]

As for Evans of course Jeff Jackson gets credit for helping him be the player he is now, he's one of the best coaches in the NCAA. Look at @Whitesnake's favorite team Michigan, they had one of the best coaches in the history of the NCAA (former Hab at that) and since he retired the program has been a shell of it's self. Yet they still churn out NHLers and get top quality NHL draft picks to sign up to play there but after years of being one of the very best programs in the NCAA they have been more average of late. How much of that is on coaching? we don't know but I'll always lean on coaching is an important part of the game.

That's mean man. Not sure what I've done to you.....

Red....COME BACK!!!!!!!

 

[montreal]

That's mean man. Not sure what I've done to you.....

Red....COME BACK!!!!!!!

the only good news i got for you is that they signed former Michigan player Kevin Lynch to a AHL contract.

 

[417]

Kotkaniemi doesn't belong with the big team yet. Better send him to Laval when he bring back his shape while Cousins makes the 4th line. Weal center the 3rd line so it will be :
Drouin-Weal-Byron and
Cousins-Thompson-Armia

The rest stays the same.

Imagine coming off a season where you put up 34pts in 79 games, averaging close to 14 mins per game as the youngest player in the NHL.

And without even playing a single second of your sophomore campaign..

Being told you don't belong with the team yet.

This is why we can't have nice things lol

 

[Whitesnake]

the only good news i got for you is that they signed former Michigan player Kevin Lynch to a AHL contract.

I know. Another Berenson success...;-)

 

[EveryDay]

I'm really proud of Fleury, the guy is a warrior and will become a solid player in the next few years.

ANOTHER GREAT PICK BY TIMMINS.