HF Habs: 2019 Montreal Canadiens Training Camp Part 3: The Final Countdown

[WinterLion]

Why do we always talk about Danault & Drouin, but we never talk about Tatar....

 

[Mrb1p]

Why do we always talk about Danault & Drouin, but we never talk about Tatar....

Because Tatar is great and is in the right seat. We never talk about Gally either.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Any news on the last 2 players leaving camp for Laval? Cousins and Folin? Poehling? Fleury?

It's just one. Juulsen is on the injured list.

The more I think about it, the more I think I would send Fleury down. He's been ok, but not earth shattering. His potential value at the moment is not as high as any of the other four waiver-exempt players. He can give us more than Folin, but not a lot more. Whereas Poehling, Suzuki and Kotkaniemi can all have a bigger impact than the 3rd RD behind Weber and Petry can. Mete is an NHL capable LD and we don't have much better than him. Folin can hold the fort at 3RD for now, with Reilly ready to step in for anyone who falters, and Fleury can be called up if there is an injury, especially on RD.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Because Tatar is great and is in the right seat. We never talk about Gally either.

But how is Tatar in the right seat? He is a good player with a larger role because we have no one better. Same as Danault!

 

[Vachon23]

“You keep talking about moving a player to Laval so we meet the 23 player threshold but it could also be a trade; we like suspense here” - Bergevin at the 98,5

 

[Mrb1p]

But how is Tatar in the right seat? He is a good player with a larger role because we have no one better. Same as Danault!

Not exactly. Tatar is a genuine top 6 player, Danault is not. Id say that Tatar on a career year is an average first liner, Danault on a career year is an average 2nd liner.

In all seriousness, where I draw the line is in their offensive ability and how much they impact possession in the Ozone, thats the most important thing, if youre not producing. Tatar has some of the best puck management on the team, Danault, probably the worst. For real, my "Danault turnover counter" memes went viral because of how bad Danault is at puck management. The number of times hed make a bad pass that ends up on the opponents stick, the numer of times hed ring it accross the board right on the stick of an opposing player, the number of times he lost the puck due to poor puck handling, etc. It adds up and it pisses me off. Petry has the same weakness and thats why Im hard on him.

The single best skill you can have in hockey is to keep the puck on your stick, no matter how you do it. Danault does not possess that skill, just like Eller before him. Its the true measure of an actual quality player. He can play catch-up all he wants, but thats not it for me.

One thing that Danault is great in that regard is winning clear draws, I cant fault him for this, hes great at it, but Im not sure it has the same impact as actual on-ice possession. Sadly, theres no actual stats that can portray this, I wish there was, but its not possible.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Danault produced like a top-6 center without the PP time. I rather see him as a 2C though, because he does not have the ability to carry a team on his back like most 1Cs. But I certainly won't crap on him for having a style that is not too spectacular. For that matter Suzuki is not that spectacular either, but I will care about what he produces, not how many oohs and ahs he gets.

Agree. because Danault doesn't produce as much ahh and oooh some other C will make, it doesn't mean he's bad. He have enough indurance and overall speed, he's wise to know where to go on the ice, excellent in defense, come back and few skills interresting for the offense, precision of passes and some shooting precision too. As right now in pre-season games: he's our best center, ... if pre season games means anything. He showed he was ready last game. His game was there, it wasn't rusty.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Not sure if this is true but I read that today was the last day to send down non waiver exempt players before teams submit their 23 man roster. So either one of the kids are sent down or a trade is coming tomorrow.

 

[Runner77]

If Bouchard's contribution to Mete's development is grossly exaggerated then why did the Habs send him to the AHL and why did they call him back up after 7 games or as I prefer to view it three weeks?

Obviously, Bouchard did very little coaching of Mete during those 7 games. It's the practices that interest me. Many commentators mentioned that Mete was sent down to work on using his stick. It's not like Mete was a total mess when he went to Laval and came back a new man. He had a few aspects of his game he needed to work on and Bouchard helped him solve those issues in three weeks. It may not be magic but it certainly is doing your job - something that was not happening in previous years.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Not exactly. Tatar is a genuine top 6 player, Danault is not. Id say that Tatar on a career year is an average first liner, Danault on a career year is an average 2nd liner.

In all seriousness, where I draw the line is in their offensive ability and how much they impact possession in the Ozone, thats the most important thing, if youre not producing. Tatar has some of the best puck management on the team, Danault, probably the worst. For real, my "Danault turnover counter" memes went viral because of how bad Danault is at puck management. The number of times hed make a bad pass that ends up on the opponents stick, the numer of times hed ring it accross the board right on the stick of an opposing player, the number of times he lost the puck due to poor puck handling, etc. It adds up and it pisses me off. Petry has the same weakness and thats why Im hard on him.

The single best skill you can have in hockey is to keep the puck on your stick, no matter how you do it. Danault does not possess that skill, just like Eller before him. Its the true measure of an actual quality player. He can play catch-up all he wants, but thats not it for me.

One thing that Danault is great in that regard is winning clear draws, I cant fault him for this, hes great at it, but Im not sure it has the same impact as actual on-ice possession. Sadly, theres no actual stats that can portray this, I wish there was, but its not possible.

But we have no one better than Danault right now. In pre-season he was our best C.
Why posting negatives messages of that player?
If Crosby, Kopitar, Bergeron, Malkin or MacInnon were our first center, let's say, in your wildest dreams, sure Danault become 2nd or third but we don't have that kindda stuff at C position since, since ... a long long time ago.
Danault's line can produce good enough 5 first games and after the other lines will have to produce or we'll be in trouble. We arn't cup contenders yet but we have that hockey team. If you want to point where trouble is, point your finger on other players because they are not as ready as Danault. Danault's switch is ON, others are OFF.

 

[Runner77]

TRANSLATION: In an interview with Mario Languesale, Bergevin mentions the price you have to pay on any type of deal. "A trade involving three Hondas for one Mercedes, that just doesn't happen".

Jeez Marc, but you sure love your Hondas tho.

 

[THE HOFF]

Not exactly. Tatar is a genuine top 6 player, Danault is not. Id say that Tatar on a career year is an average first liner, Danault on a career year is an average 2nd liner.

In all seriousness, where I draw the line is in their offensive ability and how much they impact possession in the Ozone, thats the most important thing, if youre not producing. Tatar has some of the best puck management on the team, Danault, probably the worst. For real, my "Danault turnover counter" memes went viral because of how bad Danault is at puck management. The number of times hed make a bad pass that ends up on the opponents stick, the numer of times hed ring it accross the board right on the stick of an opposing player, the number of times he lost the puck due to poor puck handling, etc. It adds up and it pisses me off. Petry has the same weakness and thats why Im hard on him.

The single best skill you can have in hockey is to keep the puck on your stick, no matter how you do it. Danault does not possess that skill, just like Eller before him. Its the true measure of an actual quality player. He can play catch-up all he wants, but thats not it for me.

One thing that Danault is great in that regard is winning clear draws, I cant fault him for this, hes great at it, but Im not sure it has the same impact as actual on-ice possession. Sadly, theres no actual stats that can portray this, I wish there was, but its not possible.

People say Tatar and even Gallagher, to some degree, aren't clear cut first line material either. I mean there are players I don't like. That's what I'll say to you : don't like him. But your obsession with Danault is crazy man. He came off a pretty good season where everything you wrote doesn't apply AT ALL. We can argue whether or not he's our future 2nd line center or whether of not he can sustain last year's play, but the kid is improving year after year and I see little evidence to suggest he won't keep making strides forward.

I'll add this : I hope our kids view him as an example. A guy with less talent than they have, but does everything else right and the simplicity of his game makes him have chemistry with good north-south players. I hope our kids can pride themselves in doing the dirty work and have the same work ethic. Until they do, send them in the minors where they belong. We are not the f***ing oilers.

 

[NobleSix]

“You keep talking about moving a player to Laval so we meet the 23 player threshold but it could also be a trade; we like suspense here” - Bergevin at the 98,5

lol Bergevin is such a f***ing troll

 

[Mrb1p]

But we have no one better than Danault right now. In pre-season he was our best C.
Why posting negatives messages of that player?
If Crosby, Kopitar, Bergeron, Malkin or MacInnon were our first center, let's say, in your wildest dreams, sure Danault become 2nd or third but we don't have that kindda stuff at C position since, since ... a long long time ago.
Danault's line can produce good enough 5 first games and after the other lines will have to produce or we'll be in trouble. We arn't cup contenders yet but we have that hockey team. If you want to point where trouble is, point your finger on other players because they are not as ready as Danault. Danault's switch is ON, others are OFF.

Ah, thats a mess.

 

[Mrb1p]

TRANSLATION: In an interview with Mario Languesale, Bergevin mentions the price you have to pay on any type of deal. "A trade involving three Hondas for one Mercedes, that just doesn't happen".

Jeez Marc, but you sure love your Hondas tho.

Boo this man

People say Tatar and even Gallagher, to some degree, aren't clear cut first line material either. I mean there are players I don't like. That's what I'll say to you : don't like him. But your obsession with Danault is crazy man. He came off a pretty good season where everything you wrote doesn't apply AT ALL. We can argue whether or not he's our future 2nd line center or whether of not he can sustain last year's play, but the kid is improving year after year and I see little evidence to suggest he won't keep making strides forward.

I'll add this : I hope our kids view him as an example. A guy with less talent than they have, but does everything else right and the simplicity of his game makes him have chemistry with good north-south players. I hope our kids can pride themselves in doing the dirty work and have the same work ethic. Until they do, send them in the minors where they belong. We are not the ****ing oilers.

Gallys an elite first liner IDC what anyone says, thats legit hate if you dont agree.

Aside from that, it did though, I watched about 95% of the games and I was on here commenting live, you can check back on every single posts I made in the GDTs, thats whats great, you can actually go back and see that Im right. I dont live in some kind of PR fantasy land.
Also the kid is 27.

 

[The Real Timo]

TRANSLATION: In an interview with Mario Languesale, Bergevin mentions the price you have to pay on any type of deal. "A trade involving three Hondas for one Mercedes, that just doesn't happen".

Jeez Marc, but you sure love your Hondas tho.

I drive a Honda and I take offence. Chevy's. Bergy loves his Chevy's.

 

[DangerDave]

MB has clearly never heard of an NSX. First gen of course

 

[Kriss E]

Boo this man



Gallys an elite first liner IDC what anyone says, thats legit hate if you dont agree.

Aside from that, it did though, I watched about 95% of the games and I was on here commenting live, you can check back on every single posts I made in the GDTs, thats whats great, you can actually go back and see that Im right. I dont live in some kind of PR fantasy land.
Also the kid is 27.

There's no ''legit hate'' if you don't think Gallagher is a legit elite first liner. You have a different definition for ''Elite First Liner'', that's all.
For a lot of people, elite top liner refers to guys like Kane, Ovechkin, Kucherov, and the likes.
Gallagher has a career high 54pts...can't compare him to 100pts type of players.

 

[Mrb1p]

There's no ''legit hate'' if you don't think Gallagher is a legit elite first liner. You have a different definition for ''Elite First Liner'', that's all.
For a lot of people, elite top liner refers to guys like Kane, Ovechkin, Kucherov, and the likes.
Gallagher has a career high 54pts...can't compare him to 100pts type of players.

I guess that if you define elite as the top three players at each position, you would have a point. Most use the definition a lot more broadly though.

 

[Kriss E]

TRANSLATION: In an interview with Mario Languesale, Bergevin mentions the price you have to pay on any type of deal. "A trade involving three Hondas for one Mercedes, that just doesn't happen".

Jeez Marc, but you sure love your Hondas tho.

Seriously...does he not realize he's been at the job for 8 years now and it's his car dealership? ..
Bergevin's like the moron watching a house burn down pointing and laughing at it asking who's idiot owns the house.

 

[Runner77]

Seriously...does he not realize he's been at the job for 8 years now and it's his car dealership? ..
Bergevin's like the moron watching a house burn down pointing and laughing at it asking who's idiot owns the house.

Just look at the face he makes in the pic that accompanies the piece -- he's one proud peacock.

 

[Kriss E]

I guess that if you define elite as the top three players at each position, you would have a point. Most use the definition a lot more broadly though.

I don't know of anyone who'd mention ''elite'' including guys scoring around 50pts. This is not a knock on Gallagher, he's just not in that upper echelon. If you take all forwards, he's 90th in terms of points, he's 109th if you take ppg ratio of guys with at least 40gp.
Looking at only RW, he's 23rd, taking in ppg, he's 32nd.

I mean, not exactly what I consider elite at the NHL level.

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't know of anyone who'd mention ''elite'' including guys scoring around 50pts. This is not a knock on Gallagher, he's just not in that upper echelon. If you take all forwards, he's 90th in terms of points, he's 109th if you take ppg ratio of guys with at least 40gp.
Looking at only RW, he's 23rd, taking in ppg, he's 32nd.

I mean, not exactly what I consider elite at the NHL level.

How about goals ? Shots taken? Possession metrics ? How does he compare in points-share? How does he rank on his own team? Whats his defensive play like? Who are his linemates? More importantly, what does he look like on the ice?

Conveniently leaving this off the board, are we ?

 

[Kriss E]

How about goals ? Shots taken? Possession metrics ? How does he compare in points-share? How does he rank on his own team? Whats his defensive play like? Who are his linemates? More importantly, what does he look like on the ice?

Conveniently leaving this off the board, are we ?

Conveniently? No. Points and ppg , along with the eye test, have always been the most important factors in claiming who's part of the general elite.
Nobody is going to argue Kucherov, Ovechkin, Kane and Gallagher are all in the same category, and you would undoubtedly take all three of those guys before Gallagher. Why? Because they're much better, ie Elite. Gallagher is beneath them.

If you want to say Gallagher is elite among his own style, then that makes more sense. Holmstrom and Gainey were elite at their games too, but you wouldnt mention them in the same breath as the general elite forwards.

Goes back to my point. It has nothing to do with hate, everything to do with semantics.

 

[Mrb1p]

Conveniently? No. Points and ppg , along with the eye test, have always been the most important factors in claiming who's part of the general elite.
Nobody is going to argue Kucherov, Ovechkin, Kane and Gallagher are all in the same category, and you would undoubtedly take all three of those guys before Gallagher. Why? Because they're much better, ie Elite. Gallagher is beneath them.

If you want to say Gallagher is elite among his own style, then that makes more sense. Holmstrom and Gainey were elite at their games too, but you wouldnt mention them in the same breath as the general elite forwards.

Goes back to my point. It has nothing to do with hate, everything to do with semantics.

Yes, and everyone would take Crosby, McDavid and Mackinnon over Bergeron.... And yet...