HF Habs: 2019 Montreal Canadiens Training Camp Part 3: The Final Countdown

[ECWHSWI]

Most of the guys you just mentioned have better wingers than Danault, maybe all of them.

But still I never said Danault is an elite offensive C, I said he would be an elite 3C and currently produces like a solid 2C.

Nope, I said it, he is ELITE, I mean... as you said yourself he's among the top C 5on5...

so, is he among the most productive C 5 on 5 or does he produces like a solid 2C only ??

 

[MXD]

Completely different. Danault and Desharnais have nothing in common. Danault was a first-round pick, Deshanais undrafted. Danault can be relied upon to play against other team's top lines, DD could not.

DD got a ton of PP time, Danault does not.

Let's put it another way: If Desharnais was as reliable defensively as Danault is, then no one would have *****ed about how he was being sheltered.

Except when I say "no one", I don't include those who notice the one and only thing Danault and Desharnais have in common.

...White Men. Always taking every spots, regardless of merit

 

[BaseballCoach]

Also though, in theory, if MB and CJ want extra time to make a decision, couldn't they assign say Poehling to Laval for now to meet the deadline, then waive Cousins. Then he would clear by say Wednesday or Thrusday afternoon - at which point Poehling could be recalled in time for Thursday's game...

That is all true, but for me, Cousins brings more to the team than Folin.

 

[schnapshot]

No hes not. An excellent two-way player plays like Crosby, Datsyuk or Kopitar.

Danault is excellent at nothing but faceoffs.

How can you be taken seriously saying that when he scored 53 points at 5v5? And was the pivot of one of the best 5v5 lines in the NHL...

Edit: And finished 7th in Selke Trophy voting.

 

[Mrb1p]

Completely different. Danault and Desharnais have nothing in common. Danault was a first-round pick, Deshanais undrafted. Danault can be relied upon to play against other team's top lines, DD could not.

DD got a ton of PP time, Danault does not.

Let's put it another way: If Desharnais was as reliable defensively as Danault is, then no one would have *****ed about how he was being sheltered.

Except when I say "no one", I don't include those who notice the one and only thing Danault and Desharnais have in common.

Re-read what Ive been saying then come back, because youre missing it.

 

[Mrb1p]

How can you be taken seriously saying that when he scored 53 points at 5v5? And was the pivot of one of the best 5v5 lines in the NHL...

Edit: And finished 7th in Selke Trophy voting.

None of that make his skillset "excellent".
I can tell Habs fans don't know what the heck excellent mean.

Excellent is words Id use to describe Gallagher, Subban and Price. Not f***ing Danault.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Smh saying Danault is an elite C

Hes a good 2-way center whos mostly defensive who had the most ice time for entire season and been playing with 2 hot player last season in tatar and Gallagher

Hes a really good 2nd Center or a 3rd center in a really strong team in the middle , but 1 of the major reasons he got that many points is because is playing with 2 hot wingers , he wouldnt do that if he was playing on Kotka line with armia/weal/lekhonen/Hudon whatsoever.

Danault is not the 1 that make others good in offense , its the others. Not saying hes a bad player but hes no Bergeron in terms of offensive skills. Proof , hes terrible during PP.

Hes no Crosby making Dupuis a 4th liner looking like a 1st liner.

 

[Rapala]

Danault had 12 points in the last 20 games... I mean... That's litterally in the margin of error.
(Their play did tail off a bit, and I think myself that Danault might be better off playing 17 minutes as opposed to 19)

True but the line laid a bunch of goose eggs against our immediate rivals.

 

[schnapshot]

None of that make his skillset "excellent".
I can tell Habs fans don't know what the heck excellent mean.

Excellent is words Id use to describe Gallagher, Subban and Price. Not ****ing Danault.

So Gallagher's skillset is excellent? Love the guy, but he's a 50-point player. He literally has the same production as Danault.

You weren't talking about his entire skillset, you were talking about attributes (isn't excellent at anything). Some of Danault's attributes (like shooting and stick handling) are average while others like defensive play, face-offs and puck protection are excellent.

If you're judging him on your own definition of excellent, then you shouldn't say it like it's a fact.

 

[MXD]

Smh saying Danault is an elite C

Hes a good 2-way center whos mostly defensive who had the most ice time for entire season and been playing with 2 hot player last season in tatar and Gallagher

I'm giving you Gallagher : he's an elite playdriver, and a first liner on nearly any team on the NHL, whether by virtue of being the best RW on a given team or of being able to play against top competition.

But Tatar? C'mon... The guy is a prototypical 2nd liner by just about every basis of evaluation. Danault isn't playing between, I don't know... Kucherov and Kane. He played very, very tough minutes with a Top-45 forward in the NHL (and I'm not comfortable calling him a Top-30 forward, but that makes him a upper-half first liner regardless) and a second liner, with a team on which the other centers were a guy who was just moved to C, a guy born in 2000 and one of Nate Thompson or Michael Chaput; in other words, not players that could be reasonably deployed the way that line was used.

 

[417]

If Bouchard's contribution to Mete's development is grossly exaggerated then why did the Habs send him to the AHL and why did they call him back up after 7 games or as I prefer to view it three weeks?

Because he needed ice time that Julien couldn't afford to give him at that time.

Obviously, Bouchard did very little coaching of Mete during those 7 games. It's the practices that interest me. Many commentators mentioned that Mete was sent down to work on using his stick. It's not like Mete was a total mess when he went to Laval and came back a new man. He had a few aspects of his game he needed to work on and Bouchard helped him solve those issues in three weeks. It may not be magic but it certainly is doing your job - something that was not happening in previous years.

AHL is where "some" players go to work on certain aspects of their game, in an in-game situation....situations that NHL coaches can't always afford to give.

Clause Julien, like him or not, but I'm pretty sure he was more then capable of teaching Mete whatever it is that Bouchard did when he went down.

 

[EveryDay]

None of that make his skillset "excellent".
I can tell Habs fans don't know what the heck excellent mean.

Excellent is words Id use to describe Gallagher, Subban and Price. Not ****ing Danault.

I have to disagree here, I feel like he's excellent at puck protection and overall play in the D zone.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I'm giving you Gallagher : he's an elite playdriver, and a first liner on nearly any team on the NHL, whether by virtue of being the best RW on a given team or of being able to play against top competition.

But Tatar? C'mon... The guy is a prototypical 2nd liner by just about every basis of evaluation. Danault isn't playing between, I don't know... Kucherov and Kane. He played very, very tough minutes with a Top-45 forward in the NHL (and I'm not comfortable calling him a Top-30 forward, but that makes him a upper-half first liner regardless) and a second liner, with a team on which the other centers were a guy who was just moved to C, a guy born in 2000 and one of Nate Thompson or Michael Chaput; in other words, not players that could be reasonably deployed the way that line was used.

Tatar is a second liner like Danault is one.

 

[MXD]

True but the line laid a bunch of goose eggs against our immediate rivals.

The closest thing to a "rival" against whom Danault had no points in the last 21 gams was Carolina (and Gallagher did score a goal in a 2-1 OTL).

Then against Toronto on the last game of the season (but it doesn't really count, because they weren't rivals anymore)

 

[BaseballCoach]

Nope, I said it, he is ELITE, I mean... as you said yourself he's among the top C 5on5...

so, is he among the most productive C 5 on 5 or does he produces like a solid 2C only ??

Danault produced like a top-6 center without the PP time. I rather see him as a 2C though, because he does not have the ability to carry a team on his back like most 1Cs. But I certainly won't crap on him for having a style that is not too spectacular. For that matter Suzuki is not that spectacular either, but I will care about what he produces, not how many oohs and ahs he gets.

 

[the]

They all are 2nd liners good for 50 points. All 3 compliment each other nicely.

 

[montreal]

Well I often have seen it where people say to send a player down because Joel Bouchard is there...as though any player can get better simply by osmosis.

They'll use Jake Evans and/or Cale Fleury spending the entire year with Bouchard as an example.

But I wonder, would the same have happened if I don't know...Andre Tourigny was coaching the Laval Rocket last year?

I think so...I think a player's make up has way more to do with where he ends up then the identity/ability of his AHL coach.


I still think the bulk of that work comes down to the player's attitude, work ethic and ability.

Jake Evans can play a ton in the AHL this year, PP, 1st line,, etc...

It doesn't mean that he'll be ready to play the same role in the NHL.

People want to see players work with Bouchard because he's a good coach or at least so far he appears to be and sounds to be.

As for Evans and Fleury, it depends on how good or bad of a coach Tourigny is for me to say if they would have been the same players they are today. I look at Lefebvre and felt he made some really terrible decisions that impacted his players, it doesn't mean they didn't make the NHL because of him but that perhaps if he were a better coach, someone that had experience as a head coach before being hired thus a proven track record of success, that things might have at least gone a little better for some of the prospects he coached.

I've always hated the it's all on the players talk, granted we can never really know for sure how much impact a coach has, do the Habs win 5 cups without Bowman behind the bench, or do they win no matter who was behind the bench? But it's pointless to go on as some will always feel the coach doesn't have much of an impact and others will feel the coach can have a big impact or close to it. The truth could be somewhere in the middle.

As for Evans playing a ton in the AHL this year, PP, etc.. and how it relates to him being ready for the NHL, of course it's a massive step to go from the AHL to the NHL but to me it's about how much a prospect can progress each year. At some point that progression will stop and they will peak, the problem is you never know what age that is going to be the case. For Evans, so far it hasn't happened yet, it would seem logical that this could be the year that happens or perhaps he only has a small bump in progress.

Playing a ton in the AHL, PP, won't make him ready for those roles in the NHL but for various reasons. He lacks physical tools and has never had high end skills. That doesn't mean he can't be a solid NHLer and that playing a lot in the AHL wouldn't help him reach that level, in fact I would think it would help a lot as his confidence seemed to grow as the season went on last year and it appears he carried that over to camp this year. Since we don't know what Bouchard is even saying to Evans it's hard to know what impact he has on him, Evans was always a smart, hard working, solid 2 way player since first saw him as a Freshman at Notre Dame. But what I do like about Bouchard is that he put Evans in the best position possible to have success and build confidence, something other coaches have not done and then got poor results. How much are they related we can only guess/speculate.

If you suck at hockey no coach can turn you into an NHLer. If you are a no talent goon no coach is going to turn you into Super Mario. Coaches are tools that are there to help improve a player, if all things were equal you wouldn't need to fire them.

 

[MXD]

Tatar is a second liner like Danault is one.

Ultimately, you're probably right... But the whole "Danault produced because of his wingers" his highly suspect, because it basically ignores that Gallagher and Tatar isn't exactly a great pair when compared to the other pair of 1st line wingers. It's ultimately league average, and that hinges on a very friendly reading of Gallagher's game.

The thing is : they had first line results, in a very tough deployment.

 

[Rapala]

The closest thing to a "rival" against whom Danault had no points in the last 21 gams was Carolina (and Gallagher did score a goal in a 2-1 OTL).

Then against Toronto on the last game of the season (but it doesn't really count, because they weren't rivals anymore)

You aren't looking at what I'm looking at. In particular the stretch of games between mid Feb to mid March starting with that STUPID OT loss to the Leafs. The team was 5-11 in that period and his line was as good as the record -7. That is where we blew the season IMO. You can't forget the rivals were also in the Met at that point and included NYI for example. And no I'm not counting the Leafs game we were already done.

 

[MXD]

You aren't looking at what I'm looking at. In particular the stretch of games between mid Feb to mid March starting with that STUPID OT loss to the Leafs. The team was 5-11 in that period and his line was as good as the record -7. That is where we blew the season IMO. You can't forget the rivals were also in the Met at that point and included NYI for example. And no I'm not counting the Leafs game we were already done.

Fair enough.

 

[BLONG7]

Any news on the last 2 players leaving camp for Laval? Cousins and Folin? Poehling? Fleury?

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Any news on the last 2 players leaving camp for Laval? Cousins and Folin? Poehling? Fleury?

Tomorrow probably.

 

[Treb]

Any news on the last 2 players leaving camp for Laval? Cousins and Folin? Poehling? Fleury?

It cannot be Cousins or Folin as they would have needed to be on waivers at noon today for that.

 

[1909]

Hes useful ? Hed be even more useful if he stopped leeching the offense off the best wingers and played with defensive wingers that play the game as he does, simple. Pahlsson didnt need Selanne to dominate other players, neither did John Madden.

Tatar and Gallagher just got one of their best seasons, if not their best with Danault as their centerman....

You just cannot admit that Danault is a valuable player... You just can't... Keep writing 500 more posts on the subject... You love it so much.

 

[Mrb1p]

Tatar and Gallagher just got one of their best seasons, if not their best with Danault as their centerman....

You just cannot admit that Danault is a valuable player... You just can't... Keep writing 500 more posts on the subject... You love it so much.

(MOD)
Danault can both be valuable and not be a 1st line center.

Also, the league just had their most productive season in 20 years, but dont let that get in the way of your love for all things Phil.