2019 Entry Draft Thread (HF Draft Discord server, post #652)

[habsfan891]

OK, sure. I think you are trying to hard to compare each of them. It's more about the similarity of the waves of talent then trying to match player for player in all categories.

My apologies I thought your original post was comparing player to player.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

If we were to draft Cam York, it wouldn't be because we hope he turns into another McAvoy because he won't. That's laughably inaccurate.

It would be because Montreal thinks he can turn into a better skating Markov. Same build. Able to create passing lanes. Can make seam passes and can defend neutral zone/blueline with good angles/IQ.

He needs to bulk up and add a shot. Otherwise, he's just an upgrade on Mete.

 

[Habs Halifax]

My apologies I thought your original post was comparing player to player.

It's all good. There is no other way to compare the top 15 in each draft though right? I see similarity in the waves of talent. 1-3, 4-10, 11-15. It could be completely different but from what I remember pre drafts, I see it to be similar in terms of picking future talent and bust factor

 

[habsfan891]

It's all good. There is no other way to compare the top 15 in each draft though right? I see similarity in the waves of talent. 1-3, 4-10, 11-15. It could be completely different but from what I remember pre drafts, I see it to be similar in terms of picking future talent and bust factor

Waves of talent makes sense as a comparable the only problem is how do you allow for higher levels of talents within the waves.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If we were to draft Cam York, it wouldn't be because we hope he turns into another McAvoy because he won't. That's laughably inaccurate..

Your focus is belittle attempts and the main point went over your head cause you think I think the match game meant they needed to line-up perfectly in all categories. Keep going but I will keep reminding you the main point was about waives of talent and bust factor in the top 15 (+/-).

I tried to match them up according to NHL value and the hope/hype pre draft. There is no perfect fit.

 

[Mrb1p]

Your focus is belittle attempts and the main point went over your head cause you think I think the match game meant they needed to line-up perfectly in all categories. Keep going but I will keep reminding you the main point was about waives of talent and bust factor in the top 15 (+/-).

I tried to match them up according to NHL value and the hope/hype pre draft. There is no perfect fit.

But you tried to match MacAvoy to York, one is an elite #1D and the other projects as a top four D with little upside.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Waves of talent makes sense as a comparable the only problem is how do you allow for higher levels of talents within the waves.

The talent level is more known with the 2016 draft today vs heading into this next draft. We get to see who is the potential busts with the 2016 draft and we don't have this advantage with the next draft.

It's not a perfect fit but I think the 16 and 19 drafts are closer in terms talent in the 1st half of the draft vs other draft years. Do you have any other recent draft year that you feel fits better?

But you tried to match MacAvoy to York, one is an elite #1D and the other projects as a top four D with little upside.

I liked certain match-ups vs others but at the end of the day, I tried to match them up the best I could based on what was there in each draft. Some fit better than others but this is creating a side debate that overlooks the main point. This is not solely about McAvoy vs York and how similar they are in style of play, size or anything you might not like about comparing them. Just because I listed a D with a D or a center with a center, it don't mean I think they play the same style of game. More about talent value

I didn't say the two drafts matched up perfectly, I said they are similar in terms of waves of talent available and showed some names next to each other. Maybe the point would of been better received if I listed the players in each draft in separate paragraphs

 

[habsfan891]

The talent level is more known with the 2016 draft today vs heading into this next draft. We get to see who is the potential busts with the 2016 draft and we don't have this advantage with the next draft.

It's not a perfect fit but I think the 16 and 19 drafts are closer in terms talent in the 1st half of the draft vs other draft years. Do you have any other recent draft year that you feel fits better?

I don't as tbh I've only in the last few years started paying much attention to the drafts and all the prospects instead of just the top 10 for example.

 

[A55P2]

If we were to draft Cam York, it wouldn't be because we hope he turns into another McAvoy because he won't. That's laughably inaccurate.

It would be because Montreal thinks he can turn into a better skating Markov. Same build. Able to create passing lanes. Can make seam passes and can defend neutral zone/blueline with good angles/IQ.

He needs to bulk up and add a shot. Otherwise, he's just an upgrade on Mete.

If we wanted a guy close to Markov I think we would go with Heinola instead. He seemed to have dropped a lot after the u-18, but I'm not sure I trust that drop. At some point he was penciled in the top 10-15.

 

[Locks]

I have the same opinion than yours. Im wondering what could be the production about york without hugues/bboldy/ zegras/caufield in his team. Cause im taking all these forward before york. York is undersized and very not physical. At his best. He could be a victor mete. But. I like mete but at this range (15th). We can pick better imo

Absolutely. And York just does not have those out of this world skills a la Q.Hughes where you just overlook physical deficiencies and draft him. Mete is an elite skater and a better defender than York for his lesser offensive skills and, as you said, he was not taken at 15.

 

[Mrb1p]

I always smile when I read things like "it was obvious he was special", etc. , when said player was ranked as mid first round in McKenzie poll before the draft. I'm just curious to see where you put him at the time.

You must be new here if you believe I care even one bit about media consensus.

On MacAvoy and the 2016 draft though, I didn't really take the time to scout this one in details, I had somewhat of a hiatus from 2015 to 2017 in prospect watching, last year was my real first year back. Thus, I didn't go out of my way to catch BU games but I did watch WJC/U18s/some CHL. I had Sergachev and Chyrchun ahead of him, but come early 2017 it was clear McAvoy was the better player and I stated so a few times.

If we wanted a guy close to Markov I think we would go with Heinola instead. He seemed to have dropped a lot after the u-18, but I'm not sure I trust that drop. At some point he was penciled in the top 10-15.

Amen. Gotta hate the u18 knee jerk.

 

[NeptunesTrident]

I think go forward in round 1. Then go defense in Rd 2. If a run starts on d they have Drouin and the 2 2nds to try and trade up and get their guy if they need to.

As for Krebs I wouldn't touch him until 2nd Rd. Chipchura was never the same after his Achilles was severed. I realize that so much progress has been made since then. Maybe this is the home run pick the Habs need?

 

[Andrei79]

Timmins did say, for yet another draft year, that this was a good draft for defensemen. Seeing as were not in a position to pick a high end center or someone like Boldy, I'd expect one to be picked.

I'm also hoping Brink falls to our 2nd pick due to size/skating concerns.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Your focus is belittle attempts and the main point went over your head cause you think I think the match game meant they needed to line-up perfectly in all categories. Keep going but I will keep reminding you the main point was about waives of talent and bust factor in the top 15 (+/-).

I tried to match them up according to NHL value and the hope/hype pre draft. There is no perfect fit.

The post you responded to was in no way a response to the post you're trying to defend. I really don't care about the 2016 draft and matching "levels" or whatever, so I moved on from it.
Try not to be so defensive.

It was just an overall assessment of why we might draft York, or not.

If we wanted a guy close to Markov I think we would go with Heinola instead. He seemed to have dropped a lot after the u-18, but I'm not sure I trust that drop. At some point he was penciled in the top 10-15.

Yeah, Heinola has that upside too. I like him.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The post you responded to was in no way a response to the post you're trying to defend. I really don't care about the 2016 draft and matching "levels" or whatever, so I moved on from it.
Try not to be so defensive.

It was just an overall assessment of why we might draft York, or not.

But I clarified my point directly to you and you continued on with overlooking the main point. Moving on

 

[Andrei79]

Amen. Gotta hate the u18 knee jerk.

Smith had a poor U18 and almost made the Devils out of camp a few months early.

So its really super important to put a lot of value on the U18s over season play.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

But I clarified my point directly to you and you continued on with overlooking the main point. Moving on

I never directly quoted you back. I understood what you were saying and didn't feel the need to respond. Other people were giving the York = McAvoy opinion, so I changed direction.

None of it had to do with your original post.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I never directly quoted you back. I understood what you were saying and didn't feel the need to respond. Other people were giving the York = McAvoy opinion, so I changed direction.

None of it had to do with your original post.

It's all good. Lets move on from it.

 

[Mrb1p]

Smith had a poor U18 and almost made the Devils out of camp a few months early.

So its really super important to put a lot of value on the U18s over season play.

The problem is when the narrative changes out of nowhere, like Smith. I can't believe multi million/billion dollars worth-franchise can still be this stupid. I mean, I don't expect anything from guys like Craig Button or Pronman.. But actual scouts being paid for that ? Jeez.

 

[S Bah]

You must be new here if you believe I care even one bit about media consensus.

On MacAvoy and the 2016 draft though, I didn't really take the time to scout this one in details, I had somewhat of a hiatus from 2015 to 2017 in prospect watching, last year was my real first year back. Thus, I didn't go out of my way to catch BU games but I did watch WJC/U18s/some CHL. I had Sergachev and Chyrchun ahead of him, but come early 2017 it was clear McAvoy was the better player and I stated so a few times.

2016 was a very deep draft Bellows at 18 OV many others after McAvoy, whose abilities & passion were excellent, this draft has the earmarks of having many star players picked into the second round IMHO!!!...

 

[Vachon23]

Some one here know well John Farinacci ?

 

[TT1]

They are not even close in playing style. McAvoy is not just a little bit more physical. He's way more physical. He's also far more aggressive at both ends of the ice. You won't see York pinching deep to smash an opposing D into the boards.

York does not use his body enough to front guys along the boards, he's passive in front of his own net, and he doesn't do a hard close, he stick checks guys. His physicality or lack thereof is one of his weaknesses. His play when the puck is deep in his own zone is poor.

McAvoy also has a way better shot, and is a multiple threat on the point: pass, shoot, backdoor, crash the net.

York's neutral zone play is why he's so highly valued. He defends it well and can skate through it easily. He has good vision/playmaking skills. But, he's a passive player physically and doesn't have a shot.

Gardiner is a far more apt comparison than McAvoy.

I wonder what @TT1 thinks about all these York = McAvoy discussions. Pretty sure we had it in February.

I've always said that watching York reminded me of Markov, that's why i like him. But yea I've done more descriptive analysis of his tools in the past . His biggest strength is that he doesn't force plays, he takes w/e is given to him, he plays very efficiently/smart. Good reads to break plays up too (or set them up), very Markov-ian in that regard.

Some quick posts i found but there's nothing in depth here:
2019 Entry Draft Thread Part XI
U-18 Tournament Talk (4-18 - 4/28)

 

[WeThreeKings]

There's a wart on pretty much every defenceman that could go first round except for Byram and Soderstrom

Broberg - Hockey IQ issues, isn't a gifted play maker, and his one v. 5 rushes won't work in the NHL.

Seider - He's playing in a men's league so there's not really a good indicator whether or not he has good offensive upside or if he's the next Tinordi.

York - He's weak, not engaged physically, doesn't have a weaponized shot and there's a big ? on his creativity since his passes are about efficiency and not opportunity.

Harley - Not strong defensively, there's hockey IQ concerns in his own end, also doesn't appear to be creative.

Heinola - His top end speed is weak, he doesn't have much of a shot either, spotty play at the U-18 stage with bad reads in his own end.

Thomson - Probably the second most gifted offensive defenseman in the draft, but doesn't play in his own end at all at this point.

Bjornfot - Solid all around defender, but is there plus plus tools anywhere or is he destined to be a 2PP and 2PK guy for his entire career?

 

[Runner77]

There's a wart on pretty much every defenceman that could go first round except for Byram and Soderstrom

Broberg - Hockey IQ issues, isn't a gifted play maker, and his one v. 5 rushes won't work in the NHL.

Seider - He's playing in a men's league so there's not really a good indicator whether or not he has good offensive upside or if he's the next Tinordi.

York - He's weak, not engaged physically, doesn't have a weaponized shot and there's a big ? on his creativity since his passes are about efficiency and not opportunity.

Harley - Not strong defensively, there's hockey IQ concerns in his own end, also doesn't appear to be creative.

Heinola - His top end speed is weak, he doesn't have much of a shot either, spotty play at the U-18 stage with bad reads in his own end.

Thomson - Probably the second most gifted offensive defenseman in the draft, but doesn't play in his own end at all at this point.

Bjornfot - Solid all around defender, but is there plus plus tools anywhere or is he destined to be a 2PP and 2PK guy for his entire career?

That's what happens when your draft pick is in no man's land.

So what should they do with it -- trade up, trade down?

 

[le_sean]

Absolutely. And York just does not have those out of this world skills a la Q.Hughes where you just overlook physical deficiencies and draft him. Mete is an elite skater and a better defender than York for his lesser offensive skills and, as you said, he was not taken at 15.

He’s not a better defender than York and gets dominated down low and in front of the net.