Rumor: 2019-2020 Trade Rumours and Free Agent Discussion Part 2

[The Abusement Park]

Actually the difference is in the criticism. When we saw 'Meh type play' from both players, our commentary was essentially,

Kerfoot is a bad player. Trade him.
Jost is a horrible player and human being! Draw and quarter him!

Just kidding. But part of the criticism is the position that Jost was drafted at and his failure to break out so far despite repeated chances so I get where people are coming from.

I don’t think the commentary is much different. People(myself very much included) laid into kerfoot an obscene amount last year. Everyone here wants to root for Jost because he’s the nicest guy, has a great story and is easy to root for. But he just isn’t good, simple as that.

For as much shit as we gave Kerfoot he is still capable of putting up 45 pts a year, which is very useful.

 

[S3rkie]

Of course Zadorov is a much better player, but i think his biggest attribute to the team right now is as a modern day enforcer.

Guy hasn't even played poorly about half the penalties he has taken this year have been terrible calls. And he's still getting shat on.

Guys like EJ, Barbs and Graves have directly caused harm during games and suffered zero. I'm starting to really like Bednar as a coach but his handling each player uniquely method isnt that far from flat out favoritism.

 

[henchman21]

Kerfoot is one of those complimentary middle 6 guys that you really don't want on a contending team as their stats support a higher payday than you'd like to give them. He's very much a modern PAP. At 3.5m that he signed at, it actually isn't that bad (I actually think he could have gone to arbitration and gotten more). I'd rather have Compher at that price or Donskoi at the 3.9, but it isn't the end of the world to pay him that much. You're just not going to fall all over yourself to have him on your team.

You want more out of Jost because of his pedigree as a prospect and being a high 1st rough pick. It is only natural, and to this point, he just can't overcome his weaknesses to a degree where he can be counted on in a bigger role. And it isn't for lack of chances, he's been handed the keys a few times with little to show for it. Curtis Lazar has been brought up a number of times around Jost, and if Jost doesn't show large improvement this season, that is ringing more true than any of us want to admit.

 

[Gatorbait19]

Columbus' downfall has been grossly exaggerated. They will certainly make a couple moves this year to shuffle that team around, but it is likely to be on defense with one of Murray or Savard moving out. The forward I could see them moving is Jenner.

They have some good pieces (Jones, Dubois, Atkinson, Werenski), but by letting Panarin, Bob, Duchene and Dzingel walk, they essentially gave away/lost 3-4 firsts and some really good prospects. In today’s nhl you can’t allow that to happen, especially as a small market team.

Now they’re kinda stuck in no man’s land (good enough to avoid bottom 5, but too bad to get into playoffs) without a real chance to compete in the next 4+ years. I respect them for shooting their shot last year, but they’ve gotta recognize where they’re at and trade any half decent player older than 26 for futures.

 

[flyfysher]

I don’t think the commentary is much different. People(myself very much included) laid into kerfoot an obscene amount last year. Everyone here wants to root for Jost because he’s the nicest guy, has a great story and is easy to root for. But he just isn’t good, simple as that.

For as much **** as we gave Kerfoot he is still capable of putting up 45 pts a year, which is very useful.

Respectfully disagree about the level of criticism but not about Jost's performance to date.

 

[henchman21]

They have some good pieces (Jones, Dubois, Atkinson, Werenski), but by letting Panarin, Bob, Duchene and Dzingel walk, they essentially gave away/lost 3-4 firsts and some really good prospects. In today’s nhl you can’t allow that to happen, especially as a small market team.

Now they’re kinda stuck in no man’s land (good enough to avoid bottom 5, but too bad to get into playoffs) without a real chance to compete in the next 4+ years. I respect them for shooting their shot last year, but they’ve gotta recognize where they’re at and trade any half decent player older than 26 for futures.

They are going to be close to a playoff team, if not a playoff team this year. I think people see what they spent and think they sent their best prospects away. They kept Foudy, Texier, Bemstrom, Marchenko, Gavrikov, Tarasov, and Elvis. Who are all better than anybody they gave up, they gave up a 1st, a couple 2nds, late picks, and some prospects who were lost in the shuffle there. Personally I'd take Texier over any Avs' forward prospect and Bemstrom would be right up there with Newhook for me. Elvis has to adjust to NA ice, but he's been the best goalie outside of the NHL for a bit now. Marchenko is a boom or bust sort of player, but there are not many 6'3" forwards with his skating/hands combo. They are an excellent team at finding depth in the draft too. Hjorth this past year will prove to be a steal

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Columbus' downfall has been grossly exaggerated. They will certainly make a couple moves this year to shuffle that team around, but it is likely to be on defense with one of Murray or Savard moving out. The forward I could see them moving is Jenner.

I actually don’t think their downfall has been played up as much as it should. They lost A LOT of talent this offseason and sacrificed a major part of their future to contend last season.

They only had 3 picks in the draft in June. The first of which was in the 4th freaking round. Their prospect pool is thin (ranked 25th by Pronman) and are without their 2nd and 3rd rounders in next year’s draft too.

As for their current roster it’s quite bland. Jones is a top 5 D in my mind and they have some other nice pieces but I don’t think they’re playoff quality. Their goaltenders are a career .907sv% guy and a kid who they laughably tried to force into an NHL full time gig straight out of Switzerland. I know some people love Elvis but there needs to be some type of adjustment for a kid like that. Put him in the AHL and let him learn the North American pro game.

I think the Columbus downfall is very real. They’re a bad team who will probably get worse with age and there’s very little help coming behind to even say they have a decent future ahead.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Respectfully disagree about the level of criticism but not about Jost's performance to date.

Do you not remember the playoffs last year? Kerfoot was easily one of the most talked about things here and probably one of the only negative things talked about as well.

 

[henchman21]

I actually don’t think their downfall has been played up as much as it should. They lost A LOT of talent this offseason and sacrificed a major part of their future to contend last season.

They only had 3 picks in the draft in June. The first of which was in the 4th freaking round. Their prospect pool is thin (ranked 25th by Pronman) and are without their 2nd and 3rd rounders in next year’s draft too.

As for their current roster it’s quite bland. Jones is a top 5 D in my mind and they have some other nice pieces but I don’t think they’re playoff quality. Their goaltenders are a career .907sv% guy and a kid who they laughably tried to force into an NHL full time gig straight out of Switzerland. I know some people love Elvis but there needs to be some type of adjustment for a kid like that. Put him in the AHL and let him learn the North American pro game.

I think the Columbus downfall is very real. They’re a bad team who will probably get worse with age and there’s very little help coming behind to even say they have a decent future ahead.

As I stated above... they major pieces they gave up was a 1st and 2 2nds. Any team can recover from that. Losing Bob will be a blessing in disguise for them. It fractured that locker room. Now Bread is a huge loss simply because you don't find gamebreaking talent like that very often and frequently they are hard to replace.

Pronman shouldn't be gospel, but you're only looking at one of his pictures. Last season he ranked their 23 and under core 3rd, this year 19th. Why the drop? Jones, Wennberg, and Bjorkstrand all aged out. Jones being one year older doesn't move the needle for me to hating him as a player. They have 2 high end young defensemen and one who, I agree, is a top 5 defensemen. They have PLD who established himself as a young #1C. Good supporting wing talent in Anderson, Jenner, Atkinson, Bjorkstrand, and Nyqvist (and if Texier/Bemstrom adjust). I get you may not like Elvis, which is fair, but they have VV who has always surpassed expectations in the AHL... more than him though. Tarasov who is right in that Samsonov, Oettinger, and Sorokin tier of goalie prospects.

To me... having a 3 young pieces in Jones, Werenski, and PLD solves 3 of the most difficult pieces to solve in the NHL. They have their #1 and #2 defensemen set. They have their #1C set. They need to get the #2C spot figured out, but have 25-31 year old pieces that can buy them time there (and how you feel about Foudy might influence this). They need to get more dynamic on the wing, but have 3 potential fits in the pool already. They have solid defensive depth behind their top 2 in Murray, Savard, and Nuti with Gavrikov and Peeke as young depth that should round them out as 1 or 2 of them find their way elsewhere. I don't think they will be a contender for the next 2-3-4 years or until they can get another gamebreaking talent. But I expect them to be a playoff team 3 or 4 years out of the next 5 and winning some rounds.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

As I stated above... they major pieces they gave up was a 1st and 2 2nds. Any team can recover from that. Losing Bob will be a blessing in disguise for them. It fractured that locker room. Now Bread is a huge loss simply because you don't find gamebreaking talent like that very often and frequently they are hard to replace.

Pronman shouldn't be gospel, but you're only looking at one of his pictures. Last season he ranked their 23 and under core 3rd, this year 19th. Why the drop? Jones, Wennberg, and Bjorkstrand all aged out. Jones being one year older doesn't move the needle for me to hating him as a player. They have 2 high end young defensemen and one who, I agree, is a top 5 defensemen. They have PLD who established himself as a young #1C. Good supporting wing talent in Anderson, Jenner, Atkinson, Bjorkstrand, and Nyqvist (and if Texier/Bemstrom adjust). I get you may not like Elvis, which is fair, but they have VV who has always surpassed expectations in the AHL... more than him though. Tarasov who is right in that Samsonov, Oettinger, and Sorokin tier of goalie prospects.

To me... having a 3 young pieces in Jones, Werenski, and PLD solves 3 of the most difficult pieces to solve in the NHL. They have their #1 and #2 defensemen set. They have their #1C set. They need to get the #2C spot figured out, but have 25-31 year old pieces that can buy them time there (and how you feel about Foudy might influence this). They need to get more dynamic on the wing, but have 3 potential fits in the pool already. They have solid defensive depth behind their top 2 in Murray, Savard, and Nuti with Gavrikov and Peeke as young depth that should round them out as 1 or 2 of them find their way elsewhere. I don't think they will be a contender for the next 2-3-4 years or until they can get another gamebreaking talent. But I expect them to be a playoff team 3 or 4 years out of the next 5 and winning some rounds.

They gave up more than a 1st and 2 2nds. Remember the expansion draft?

And yes I agree teams can overcome giving up a chunk of the future in trades but that’s because those trades almost always end up with adding a core player for a handful of years. Columbus gave up all those futures for guys who are no longer there. They’ve had one first round pick in the last three years, had no 1st, 2nd and 3rd this past draft in particular and are missing a 2nd and a 3rd again this year.

They were a borderline playoff team that lost some crazy talent.

 

[henchman21]

They gave up more than a 1st and 2 2nds. Remember the expansion draft?

And yes I agree teams can overcome giving up a chunk of the future in trades but that’s because those trades almost always end up with adding a core player for a handful of years. Columbus gave up all those futures for guys who are no longer there. They’ve had one first round pick in the last three years, had no 1st, 2nd and 3rd this past draft in particular and are missing a 2nd and a 3rd again this year.

They were a borderline playoff team that lost some crazy talent.

So they were fine last summer and in 2017 with that expansion draft trade, and now that isn't okay?

They were a borderline playoff team because that locker room was fractured. Prior to Bread being there, they put up 108 point season in the toughest division in hockey that year. That was the 4th best record in the NHL. They will be in a dogfight to make the playoffs this year, but they are in that WC1-WC2 to 2 spots out sort of range of team this year. If they get a goalie to take over and Texier establishes himself at a top 6 guy, it could go better than that.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

So they were fine last summer and in 2017 with that expansion draft trade, and now that isn't okay?

They were a borderline playoff team because that locker room was fractured. Prior to Bread being there, they put up 108 point season in the toughest division in hockey that year. That was the 4th best record in the NHL. They will be in a dogfight to make the playoffs this year, but they are in that WC1-WC2 to 2 spots out sort of range of team this year. If they get a goalie to take over and Texier establishes himself at a top 6 guy, it could go better than that.

What do you mean they were fine? I legit don’t know what you mean by that quote. Columbus gave up a 1st and a 2nd to ensure the Knights drafted William Karlsson. There isn’t a person in the world who ever thought that was a good move.

A year later they gave up a 1st and 2 more 2nds for guys who left three months later. They gave up a 3rd for Ian Cole who is no longer there. Gave up a 4th and a 7th for Mcquaid who’s done. A 5th for Kinkaid who walked.

They have given up 2 1sts, 3 2nds, a 3rd, a 4th and a 7th over these last two years and have absolutely nothing to show for it. Like not one player.

 

[henchman21]

What do you mean they were fine? I legit don’t know what you mean by that quote. Columbus gave up a 1st and a 2nd to ensure the Knights drafted William Karlsson. There isn’t a person in the world who ever thought that was a good move.

They gave up a first and second to get Clarkson off their books. Just last summer, Pronman had their 23 and under core as 3rd in the league. Seems that at least he thought they were fine.

I'm not saying all their moves have been good, or that they are going to contend for the Cup any time soon. I'm saying they are a solidly built team that has the key pieces filled with young core players. The pieces they need to fill, they have prospects that can reasonably project into those roles and soon. The current team has players in the 23-31 age range that can fill the roles currently. They lack a game breaking forward talent and their goaltending is going to be questionable until somebody steals the starting job.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

They gave up a first and second to get Clarkson off their books. Just last summer, Pronman had their 23 and under core as 3rd in the league. Seems that at least he thought they were fine.

I'm not saying all their moves have been good, or that they are going to contend for the Cup any time soon. I'm saying they are a solidly built team that has the key pieces filled with young core players. The pieces they need to fill, they have prospects that can reasonably project into those roles and soon. The current team has players in the 23-31 age range that can fill the roles currently. They lack a game breaking forward talent and their goaltending is going to be questionable until somebody steals the starting job.

When your 23 and under group graduates and you don’t have any draft picks for 3 years it’s going to change quick as it did for Columbus.

I simply disagree with you on the makeup of their team. I mean yeah they have a couple of nice pieces but that’s not enough to get it done in today’s NHL. They won their first and only playoff series in NHL history last year and have since lost 3 of the 4 best players from that squad with nobody to adequately replace those roles.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I honestly fail to see how Columbus is in awful shape.


They've got some great young pieces and quality supporting cast. I'm not sure they make playoffs but they're right on that bubble.

 

[henchman21]

When your 23 and under group graduates and you don’t have any draft picks for 3 years it’s going to change quick as it did for Columbus.

I simply disagree with you on the makeup of their team. I mean yeah they have a couple of nice pieces but that’s not enough to get it done in today’s NHL. They won their first and only playoff series in NHL history last year and have since lost 3 of the 4 best players from that squad with nobody to adequately replace those roles.

Time will certainly tell... I just think you're grossly underrating the talent in that organization. They draft very well and they are going to get a lot of fruit from their 17 and 18 drafts.

I think by midseason people will really start to see what a gem Texier is.

 

[flyfysher]

Do you not remember the playoffs last year? Kerfoot was easily one of the most talked about things here and probably one of the only negative things talked about as well.

I recall because I was the one bitterly complaining about Kerfoot for a very long time as in well before the POs. Let's put it in context though. People here go off on Jost for bad or middling play (which is fair) but the level of criticism for less than 5 games in the season and being ready to write him off is a little much. For example, having my chops busted over FOs being overrated and then FOs being used as a basis to excoriate Jost and justify getting rid of him?

 

[The Abusement Park]

I recall because I was the one bitterly complaining about Kerfoot for a very long time as in well before the POs. Let's put it in context though. People here go off on Jost for bad or middling play (which is fair) but the level of criticism for less than 5 games in the season and being ready to write him off is a little much. For example, having my chops busted over FOs being overrated and then FOs being used as a basis to excoriate Jost and justify getting rid of him?

But it isn’t just 5 games with Jost... it’s 145.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I honestly fail to see how Columbus is in awful shape.


They've got some great young pieces and quality supporting cast. I'm not sure they make playoffs but they're right on that bubble.

I mean they were right on that bubble last year with Panarin, Duchene and a Vezina caliber goaltender. I just don’t think they’re anywhere near as good as they were a year ago which was a bubble team.

 

[henchman21]

I mean they were right on that bubble last year with Panarin, Duchene and a Vezina caliber goaltender. I just don’t think they’re anywhere near as good as they were a year ago which was a bubble team.

Duchene - for 23 games poste deadline where he was pretty meh
Bob - Played at a replacement level or worse all of last season, and this year (early) looks bad
Bread - no doubt, huge loss

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Duchene - for 23 games poste deadline where he was pretty meh
Bob - Played at a replacement level or worse all of last season, and this year (early) looks bad
Bread - no doubt, huge loss

Come on Henchy I know you remember last year.

Every Blue Jackets fan will tell you that without Bobrovsky and Duchene they wouldn’t have made the playoffs. Dutch started slow but was a force in the final 10 games or so. Bobrovsky went 10-3 with 4 shutouts and a .946sv% in his final 13 games to carry them into the playoffs on his back. He looks brutal now but that has nothing to do with last year. He was their MVP down the stretch.

It’s a joke if you really want to argue with me that losing Duchene and Bobrovsky isn’t a big deal.

 

[flyfysher]

But it isn’t just 5 games with Jost...

Sorry but it's a new season so I'm a little more patient than most fans at the beginning of the season. If Burakovsky had a couple of more down games then I am certain we would instantly see a lot of posts calling for him to be immediately dumped. Those kinds of posts especially at this point in the season seem extreme to me. That's what I'm seeing with Jost. I have reservations about Jost, his ability to battle on the boards, his skating and his shot. His draft position was more a reflection of the quality of his draft class so trying to compare him to Rantanen doesn't really fly. I am well aware Jost may be an NHL'er but not a good fit for this team and I'm fine with that. I also expected Jost to breakout this year. If not, then it's fair to offer him as trade bait. Just make sure to completely know what you have before trading it away. Some posters argue they already know what they have in him. Perhaps. Perhaps not. I suspect Jost may be one of those players that doesn't fit well on the Avs because of his skillset but he would do well in the right situation elsewhere.

 

[henchman21]

Come on Henchy I know you remember last year.

Every Blue Jackets fan will tell you that without Bobrovsky and Duchene they wouldn’t have made the playoffs. Dutch started slow but was a force in the final 10 games or so. Bobrovsky went 10-3 with 4 shutouts and a .946sv% in his final 13 games to carry them into the playoffs on his back. He looks brutal now but that has nothing to do with last year. He was their MVP down the stretch.

It’s a joke if you really want to argue with me that losing Duchene and Bobrovsky isn’t a big deal.

They certainly did play well down the stretch and I'm not doubting that they helped with the push. Bob was downright bad through January. Over 3 GAA and a .901 sv... an average goalie would have gotten them a few more wins (at least). He cost them more games last year than he gained them down the stretch. His play down the stretch did allow them to get into the playoffs in spite of his previous play. Duchene was just there for a quarter of the season. He helped once he got going, but until the last ~10 days of the season, he wasn't good there.

I'll fully stand by the idea of losing Bob isn't nearly as big of deal for them as people are led to believe. He wanted out the summer prior, he pouted the whole first part of the season, and was a big reason for their slump to start. If he played like the goalie he was the prior seasons, they easily make the playoffs and it is a huge loss. The Bob from last season pouting and not playing well at all, not a big loss.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Sorry but it's a new season so I'm a little more patient than most fans at the beginning of the season. If Burakovsky had a couple of more down games then I am certain we would instantly see a lot of posts calling for him to be immediately dumped. Those kinds of posts especially at this point in the season seem extreme to me. That's what I'm seeing with Jost. I have reservations about Jost, his ability to battle on the boards, his skating and his shot. His draft position was more a reflection of the quality of his draft class so trying to compare him to Rantanen doesn't really fly. I am well aware Jost may be an NHL'er but not a good fit for this team and I'm fine with that. I also expected Jost to breakout this year. If not, then it's fair to offer him as trade bait. Just make sure to completely know what you have before trading it away. Some posters argue they already know what they have in him. Perhaps. Perhaps not. I suspect Jost may be one of those players that doesn't fit well on the Avs because of his skillset but he would do well in the right situation elsewhere.

Yes it’s a new season, but we’re seeing the exact issues that plagued him since season 1.

He’s just a bad fit with the Avs, he needs to be on a team that can creat more space for him.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

They certainly did play well down the stretch and I'm not doubting that they helped with the push. Bob was downright bad through January. Over 3 GAA and a .901 sv... an average goalie would have gotten them a few more wins (at least). He cost them more games last year than he gained them down the stretch. His play down the stretch did allow them to get into the playoffs in spite of his previous play. Duchene was just there for a quarter of the season. He helped once he got going, but until the last ~10 days of the season, he wasn't good there.

I'll fully stand by the idea of losing Bob isn't nearly as big of deal for them as people are led to believe. He wanted out the summer prior, he pouted the whole first part of the season, and was a big reason for their slump to start. If he played like the goalie he was the prior seasons, they easily make the playoffs and it is a huge loss. The Bob from last season pouting and not playing well at all, not a big loss.

So during Bob’s worst stretch of the season he played at a .901 sv%. Blue Jackets team save percentage this year is .885. So even awful Bobrovsky is an extreme upgrade. The Bobrovsky who carried them to the playoffs is Vezina caliber.

I don’t blame Columbus for not managing to get him extended. His contract is downright ugly. But so is their current goaltending situation. Their current goaltending can’t hold a candle next to Bobrovsky at his worst. They counted on him to carry them into the playoffs. They’ve since lost him and two other super stars.

If you don’t think their current goaltending is a downgrade on the last few years I’m out of words for you.