Prospect Info: 2019-2020 Senators Prospects Watch Part II

[MatchesMalone]

Did you accidentally reverse your thought in that 1st paragraph?

Explain?

 

[MatchesMalone]

Did you accidentally reverse your thought in that 1st paragraph?

Oh yeah, I see the problem. I meant they're much better prepared to make the jump to pro at 20 because they played NCAA. It sounds like I meant they'd be better off to stay in NCAA at 20 compared to staying in junior at 20.

And that's true I guess, but typically only late round picks stay in junior overage. And mid round picks or later stay in college past that age. Players who are ready to turn pro usually turn pro.

 

[mianjo]

Kastelic with an early goal

 

[OD99]

I think the team and player will make the proper decision together.

That said, one element that I think has been left out is how late Pinto started to focus on hockey full-time. It wasn't that long ago that he was an afterthought for college let alone USA hockey and NHL teams.

I would prefer he stick in college, get another year with tons of practice and gym time while being leaned on as a leader and then transition to AHL or right to NHL if he is ready.

 

[Sweatred]

I think the team and player will make the proper decision together.

That said, one element that I think has been left out is how late Pinto started to focus on hockey full-time. It wasn't that long ago that he was an afterthought for college let alone USA hockey and NHL teams.

I would prefer he stick in college, get another year with tons of practice and gym time while being leaned on as a leader and then transition to AHL or right to NHL if he is ready.

Im on the fence with this one ... but if the sens though he was ready for the AHL and he could have a Norris/Formenton type developmental year how could they not explore that option?

 

[Ice-Tray]

It’s also interesting to consider that the team likes having these guys play together and grow together. Pinto is definitely in that next group that could/should join the kids this year that don’t immediately make the NHL team out of camp.

He’ll be leading the next wave that will play with JBD, Tompson, and some of the kids from this year’s team.

Gotta get him into the stream and if he’s going to be core, you want that year playing with his potential teammates in the AHL. I personally don’t like the sound of another year in college and then trying to parachute into the NHL after that.

I’d like to see him get the exact same treatment as Batherson, Norris, and Forms.

 

[OD99]

Im on the fence with this one ... but if the sens though he was ready for the AHL and he could have a Norris/Formenton type developmental year how could they not explore that option?

I think that AHL is a very real possibility and if his development goes well from now until prospects camp perhaps they lean towards that.

Historically, for whatever reason, most NCAA players have at least 2 full seasons before transitioning to pro though so I am keeping that in mind.

We have only had Brady come right in as far as I recall?

 

[OD99]

It’s also interesting to consider that the team likes having these guys play together and grow together. Pinto is definitely in that next group that could/should join the kids this year that don’t immediately make the NHL team out of camp.

He’ll be leading the next wave that will play with JBD, Tompson, and some of the kids from this year’s team.

Gotta get him into the stream and if he’s going to be core, you want that year playing with his potential teammates in the AHL. I personally don’t like the sound of another year in college and then trying to parachute into the NHL after that.

I’d like to see him get the exact same treatment as Batherson, Norris, and Forms.

Don't think you can make a generalization about development and what if he goes 1 more year college then to the A?

Dont think we can screw this up but given his relatively late start and historical context of college players I am leaning towards him having another season at ND.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I’d like to see him get the exact same treatment as Batherson, Norris, and Forms.

Then you'd have him play his D+2 in college as all those guys played their D+2 in junior and college. Easier to transition him to pro in a year most like, have him come in with Crookshanks and Novak.

 

[Sweatred]

Don't think you can make a generalization about development and what if he goes 1 more year college then to the A?

Dont think we can screw this up but given his relatively late start and historical context of college players I am leaning towards him having another season at ND.

Another factor to consider is who may be in Belleville. This years team was stacked with good young players and next year will probably have Norris, Form, Abramov,leading at times. The year after could see Pinto as the top C on that team without any insulation. We have lots of picks but it does feel like we have a bit of a drop at forward prospects that could negatively impact his development.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Then you'd have him play his D+2 in college as all those guys played their D+2 in junior and college. Easier to transition him to pro in a year most like, have him come in with Crookshanks and Novak.

True enough, and he’ll likely be playing a bigger role at UND, and Tychonick also seems to be coming along nicely there.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

 

[RAFI BOMB]

 

[aragorn]

These are two more players I really like & could see on a future Sens team, looking forward to both playing in Belleville next yr. Gruden has 61 pts in 53 games this yr & Kastelic has 58 pts in 49 games although these stats could be a few days old. Both players play a rough & gritty game & both are over a ppg. Glad to see they have so many gritty prospects in their org finally.

 

[God Says No]

These are two more players I really like & could see on a future Sens team, looking forward to both playing in Belleville next yr. Gruden has 61 pts in 53 games this yr & Kastelic has 58 pts in 49 games although these stats could be a few days old. Both players play a rough & gritty game & both are over a ppg. Glad to see they have so many gritty prospects in their org finally.

Not sure I would describe Gruden as rough and gritty. Kastelic yes, Gruden not so much.

 

[aragorn]

Not sure I would describe Gruden as rough and gritty. Kastelic yes, Gruden not so much.

Why do you even bother responding to my posts, we agree on NOTHING? Have you ever seen Gruden play?

Mitchell Hoelscher vs. Jonathan Gruden, October 04, 2019 - Ottawa 67's vs. London Knights

 

[stempniaksen]

Why do you even bother responding to my posts, we agree on NOTHING? Have you ever seen Gruden play?

Mitchell Hoelscher vs. Jonathan Gruden, October 04, 2019 - Ottawa 67's vs. London Knights

To be fair, one single fight doesn't prove much.

I tend to agree with you on Gruden, although I'm kind of surprised that's your take.

 

[God Says No]

Why do you even bother responding to my posts, we agree on NOTHING? Have you ever seen Gruden play?

Mitchell Hoelscher vs. Jonathan Gruden, October 04, 2019 - Ottawa 67's vs. London Knights

Yes, I've seen Gruden play. On TV and at the prospect camp in Ottawa.

Wait, because he had one fight you think he's gritty and rough? I'm pretty sure every NHL player had a fight somewhere in their career. Even Semin had a fight in the NHL. Does that make him rough and gritty?

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Not sure I would describe Gruden as rough and gritty. Kastelic yes, Gruden not so much.

Isn't Gruden gritty in the same way that Comnor Brown and Tyler Ennis are? I had the impression that Gruden would go to the dirty areas and was good at battling for loose pucks and one-on-one battles. I dont remember ever hearing him being referred to as an overly physical player. So maybe he could still be considered gritty but not rough, tough, mean, intimidating or any other of the adjectives to describe physically imposing players.

 

[God Says No]

Isn't Gruden gritty in the same way that Comnor Brown and Tyler Ennis are? I had the impression that Gruden would go to the dirty areas and was good at battling for loose pucks and one-on-one battles. I dont remember ever hearing him being referred to as an overly physical player. So maybe he could still be considered gritty but not rough, tough, mean, intimidating or any other of the adjectives to describe physically imposing players.

Yeah perhaps, but that's not the impression I got. Also not sure Aragorn would agree with you that Tyler Ennis is rough and gritty. CBrown yeah no doubts. Gruden has been compared to Lehkonen which again, doesn't spring to mind a rough and gritty guy.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Yeah perhaps, but that's not the impression I got. Also not sure Aragorn would agree with you that Tyler Ennis is rough and gritty. CBrown yeah no doubts. Gruden has been compared to Lehkonen which again, doesn't spring to mind a rough and gritty guy.

Good point. I have seen a handful of competing definitions of gritty. Some seem to define it as being synonymous with being tough; so by that definition a gritty player is someone who punishes people with their hits, gets into scrums and fights like Tkachuk or Neil. Others seem to define it as being a bit more synonymous with a grinder; so by that definition a player who battles hard for loose pucks, wins one-on-one battles and goes to the dirty areas and maybe is willing to get into scrums and it willing to throw their body around so players like C.Brown and Ennis could fit. Others seems to define it as synonymous with grinders but without any edge to their game; so by this definition players that simply work hard and often severely lack in talent are considered gritty, so for example Guy Boucher would have claimed Tom Pyatt was gritty.

But more to your point, I hadn't really considered Gruden as a guy that was known for his grit. I thought he was a bit like Colin White, who has been gritty at teams and sometimes played with an edge last season but this season he seems to be really lacking in that regard. I haven't seen too much of Gruden but I got the impression that he is a difficult player to categorize. He has some all around skills but I don't really know what his defining characteristics are and what makes him really stand out as a player. Some players have elite skating, or an elite shot, or elite hockey iq, or elite defensive awareness, or elite toughness. What is Gruden elite at or have the capacity to be elite at? What really separates him from other players?

 

[MatchesMalone]

Good point. I have seen a handful of competing definitions of gritty. Some seem to define it as being synonymous with being tough; so by that definition a gritty player is someone who punishes people with their hits, gets into scrums and fights like Tkachuk or Neil. Others seem to define it as being a bit more synonymous with a grinder; so by that definition a player who battles hard for loose pucks, wins one-on-one battles and goes to the dirty areas and maybe is willing to get into scrums and it willing to throw their body around so players like C.Brown and Ennis could fit. Others seems to define it as synonymous with grinders but without any edge to their game; so by this definition players that simply work hard and often severely lack in talent are considered gritty, so for example Guy Boucher would have claimed Tom Pyatt was gritty.

But more to your point, I hadn't really considered Gruden as a guy that was known for his grit. I thought he was a bit like Colin White, who has been gritty at teams and sometimes played with an edge last season but this season he seems to be really lacking in that regard. I haven't seen too much of Gruden but I got the impression that he is a difficult player to categorize. He has some all around skills but I don't really know what his defining characteristics are and what makes him really stand out as a player. Some players have elite skating, or an elite shot, or elite hockey iq, or elite defensive awareness, or elite toughness. What is Gruden elite at or have the capacity to be elite at? What really separates him from other players?

I don't have much to add, but it's worth noting they've been playing him quasi-regularly on the third line with Stranges. So I'm assuming they like his defensive game and/or work ethic to complement the young dynamo. When I've watched London this year my focus has been mostly on Stranges and Evangelista, but I've got the impression Gruden is a north-south player who's good in the corners and seems to have at least a little bit of bite to his game.

 

[Bileur]

I’ve only seen Gruden play a few times, so take it with a grain of salt, but the guy I’m reminded of when I see him is MacArthur (stylistically only, not upside). A smart hockey player who makes good decisions, keeps things simple and uses teammates well. Not an exceptional shooter or playmaker but certainly can make plays at both. Good skater, battles hard and wins along the boards. Not overly aggressive but certainly engages physically. Solid both ways. I’m looking forward to watching him some more as he develops.

 

[starling]

1+1 for Pinto. 2 points behind PPG pace.
JBD 1 assist.
Tychonick didn't play.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

That's some sweet sauce on that pass the JBD